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Old 31st July 2008, 20:22   #76
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For the crude and very noisy diesel clatter,there is nothing better than the old Mahindra 2350 (2350cc) International (MDI) engine that came with the diesel Mahindra jeeps viz. the Mahindra CJ500D in the 1970's and 80's. The new Mahindras with the DI engine have this basic engine worked up now.
The MDI engine was so crude and was borrowed from the International tractor to fit in the jeep. I used such jeeps for very long drives. It scares the hell out of other traffic users.
The engine though crude was extremely reliable and rudimentary. It could touch speeds of upto 100kmph. It consumed 11-12 kmpl. The engine did not require battery power at all. So even without a battery it could be started (by pushing) but the horn and lights would be defunct.
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Old 1st August 2008, 00:05   #77
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For all thats been said about the generous amounts of torque a diesel produces, here's an interesting read I came across a while back :
http://www.vettenet.org/torquehp.html
(You can probably skip the initial primer about hp and torque)

Although the topic isn't an explicity comparison between petrol and diesel engines, it does seem to bear a similar note
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Old 1st August 2008, 09:10   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Eddy View Post
For all thats been said about the generous amounts of torque a diesel produces, here's an interesting read I came across a while back :
http://www.vettenet.org/torquehp.html
(You can probably skip the initial primer about hp and torque)

Although the topic isn't an explicity comparison between petrol and diesel engines, it does seem to bear a similar note
Article seems logical & pro-petrol. So for a drag race it's petrol. For normal driving in India it should be a diesel. (but I just cant seem to get over the truckish noise it makes even while idling - and I observed this in a Skoda Octavia)
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Old 1st August 2008, 09:43   #79
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Originally Posted by deepakvrao View Post
I think you missed the point - the OP referred to 'driving' pleasure and not 'filling' pleasure.
Even this comes under driving pleasure. Driving pleasure is just not sitting on driver seat, it comes everything where it makes difference.

Of course, with such refinement in diesel engine (particularly after Common Rail) for city and highway driving diesel engine suits much in terms of Torque, pickup.

One place still it lack in the NVH level. Hope this will come down soon in near future compared to petrol
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Old 1st August 2008, 11:31   #80
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Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
Even this comes under driving pleasure. Driving pleasure is just not sitting on driver seat, it comes everything where it makes difference.
Not in my books!

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Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
Of course, with such refinement in diesel engine (particularly after Common Rail) for city and highway driving diesel engine suits much in terms of Torque, pickup.

One place still it lack in the NVH level. Hope this will come down soon in near future compared to petrol
Are the high end diesels from Germans (Mercs, BMWs, Audi, VW) comparable to the regular petrol ones? If not then dont think the Skodas & the Hyundais are going to get silent in the new future. Technology takes time to trickle down to the masses.
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Old 1st August 2008, 12:11   #81
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Eddy View Post
For all thats been said about the generous amounts of torque a diesel produces, here's an interesting read I came across a while back :
http://www.vettenet.org/torquehp.html
(You can probably skip the initial primer about hp and torque)

Although the topic isn't an explicity comparison between petrol and diesel engines, it does seem to bear a similar note
"Torque at higher rpm" results in more power as you can see from the formula. This means that if two vehicles are having same torque, it is better to have at higher rpms. But in the case of comparision of petrol and diesel, petrol has lower torque even at higher rpm while diesel has more torqe at lower rpm. If diesel has 200Nm of peak torque at 2000rpm and petrol has 100Nm of peak torque at 4000rpm, the resultant power is same. Now the question is "would you prefer to fire the engine at 4000rpm or further or get the same power that diesel engine might be producing at 2000 rpm or more?" I would prefer to get the same power from diesel at lower rpm. It costs less variation in fuel efficiency as I would drive at lower rpm compared to petrol at various rpms.
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Old 1st August 2008, 12:46   #82
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As I see it, diesel engines appeal more to those who want a less involved driving experience. Thats why diesel fans rave about 'in gear' acceleration or 'rolling acceleration'. Whereas, anybody who is enthusiastic about driving would know that the fastest way to accelerate from 50 km/h to 100 km/h is not in 4th or 5th gear but in 2nd gear, and while burning petrol! Also, if you're too lazy to downshift then please buy an automatic and certainly dont waste time talking about 'driving pleasure'.

On a similar note, diesel engines also appeal more to those who want a frugal driving experience. The very thought of burning lots of petrol at 6000rpm makes them cringe and check their wallets/bank accounts to check if the money is still there. Anyone who says that a petrol engine only "purrs" has never taken one to the red-line, and is thus not doing it any justice.

In conclusion:

best for driving convenience = diesel
best for driving pleasure = petrol
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Old 1st August 2008, 12:53   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opendro View Post
"Torque at higher rpm" results in more power as you can see from the formula. This means that if two vehicles are having same torque, it is better to have at higher rpms. But in the case of comparision of petrol and diesel, petrol has lower torque even at higher rpm while diesel has more torqe at lower rpm. If diesel has 200Nm of peak torque at 2000rpm and petrol has 100Nm of peak torque at 4000rpm, the resultant power is same. Now the question is "would you prefer to fire the engine at 4000rpm or further or get the same power that diesel engine might be producing at 2000 rpm or more?" I would prefer to get the same power from diesel at lower rpm. It costs less variation in fuel efficiency as I would drive at lower rpm compared to petrol at various rpms.
1. You are again talking about fuel efficiency. Ofcourse if your criteria about driving pleasure includes fuel efficiency, diesel is the way to go. No two ways about that.

2. Petrol does produce lower torque (compared to a diesel) even at higher rpms but it has a very wide band for it; which makes it faster when it comes to a drag race. Not practical but I still prefer it.
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Old 1st August 2008, 12:56   #84
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Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
One place still it lack in the NVH level. Hope this will come down soon in near future compared to petrol
NVH level in New Age Diesel is not bad at all. It is just blown out of proportions in this forum. It is slightly high during idle. You are Idling when you are waiting for signal with Autos, trucks and other much higher NVH vehicles surrounding you. So this actually doesn't matter at all for me.
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Old 1st August 2008, 13:07   #85
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Originally Posted by DieselFan View Post
NVH level in New Age Diesel is not bad at all. It is just blown out of proportions in this forum. It is slightly high during idle. You are Idling when you are waiting for signal with Autos, trucks and other much higher NVH vehicles surrounding you. So this actually doesn't matter at all for me.
Other than the german luxobadges, I still haven't found a diesel that can come remotely close to the refinement of a honda or a mitsu. They might be close to a hyundai or a suzuki but no way close to the very best.
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Old 1st August 2008, 13:17   #86
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Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
Other than the german luxobadges, I still haven't found a diesel that can come remotely close to the refinement of a honda or a mitsu. They might be close to a hyundai or a suzuki but no way close to the very best.
I think you missed my point. On indian roads with Autos/Trucks around higher noise of New Age Diesels doesn't matter. I have not felt Noise level as an irritant at all in my diesel car.
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Old 1st August 2008, 13:24   #87
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Originally Posted by DieselFan View Post
I think you missed my point. On indian roads with Autos/Trucks around higher noise of New Age Diesels doesn't matter. I have not felt Noise level as an irritant at all in my diesel car.
You can't hear any trucks or autos in the first place inside the car... atleast not inside my car . If you can hear trucks or autos it essentially means the car is not well isolated from noise. I suggest you go test drive a civic or a cedia to know what I'm talking about.

Also its not a question of whether you feel noise is an irritant or not. Its the question of absolutes and on an absolute scale, no mainstream diesel comes close to the state of the art in mainstream petrols.

Last edited by reignofchaos : 1st August 2008 at 13:27.
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Old 1st August 2008, 13:24   #88
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Originally Posted by DieselFan View Post
I think you missed my point. On indian roads with Autos/Trucks around higher noise of New Age Diesels doesn't matter. I have not felt Noise level as an irritant at all in my diesel car.
Where does Skoda Octavia figure? I have been in that car only once. The feeling of torque was good but the noise was a let down. Yeah it's way better than the old Ambassadors but still nowhere near the petrol. In surroundings you are talking about, I have to sometimes look at the tachometer to check if the engine is still on or not in my WagonR.

Anyway, each to his/her own!

PS: I think this thread is getting monotonous now.
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Old 1st August 2008, 13:26   #89
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Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
You can't hear any trucks or autos in the first place inside the car... atleast not inside my car . If you can hear trucks or autos it essentially means the car is not well isolated from noise. I suggest you go test drive a civic or a cedia to know what I'm talking about.
Any car would have some noise leakages. Unless you own a Merc/BMW. MY experience so far has been the noise leakage in from trucks Autos next to you is much higher than the engine sound of a New Age diesel. You need to drive one to experience the same. Take a test drive of a Swift D.
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Old 1st August 2008, 13:31   #90
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Originally Posted by DieselFan View Post
Any car would have some noise leakages. Unless you own a Merc/BMW. MY experience so far has been the noise leakage in from trucks Autos next to you is much higher than the engine sound of a New Age diesel. You need to drive one to experience the same. Take a test drive of a Swift D.
I've driven a Swift D hundreds of times and its not something new to me. It is noisy and not well isolated compared to the entry D segmenters. Since you haven't I'd suggest you go TD a civic or cedia to see what you are missing. Infact you don't even need to TD... just sit in the passenger's seat and you'd know.
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