Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 29th August 2008, 20:31   #196
Distinguished - BHPian
 
anjan_c2007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: India
Posts: 5,531
Thanked: 4,695 Times
Default

Source Rediffnews
Tatas pull out executives, workers to safety from Singur
August 29, 2008 19:13 IST
Irked by constant intimidation of its workforce by agitating Trinamool Congress workers, Tata Motors has evacuated its manpower from Singur.
None of the 600-800 engineers, executives and technocrats came to work since Thursday night after the management decided to pull out the workforce, including about 500 construction workers, sources close to Tata Motors said.
Asked if it was a precursor to pull out the project to manufacture the world's cheapest car 'Nano' from the state, the sources said currently, the thinking is not on that line, as safety of workers has taken the precedence because of prevailing tension.
A final view would be taken only after restoration of peace, the source said when asked about Tata Group chief Ratan Tata's threat to withdraw the project from West Bengal in case violence persisted.
Contrary to the promise that Trinamool Congress and Khet Majur Samity would stage peaceful 'satyagraha' protest against state government, there have been numerous cases of intimidation during the sit-in protest since August 24, sources said.
"The workers and the executives were afraid and worried and our foremost priority was to ensure their safety. Hence, the management decided to evacuate its manpower from the plant late last evening," a company official said on the condition of anonymity.
When contacted, a Tata Motors spokesperson told PTI from Kolkata: "Since the employees and contract labourers had left the plant late last night, it was a conscious decision of the company that there would be no attendance at the project site at any of the three shifts today."
Yours Truly
Seems that things are going out of hand lately. Again hope better sense will prevail among the agitators.
anjan_c2007 is offline  
Old 29th August 2008, 20:38   #197
Senior - BHPian
 
snaronikar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 2,845
Thanked: 23 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by agentsmith2 View Post
It is unfortunate.Now they have pulled out their workers. Do not know what happens tomorrow if they continues. Nobody wants to do business for loss and tatas will certainly ull out if this stalemate continues...

Quote:
Originally Posted by thiyags22 View Post
TATA had a bitter experience with SUNbody from the present government (but that person is not with the party anymore).
But he is from the same party, right? Not sure whether these guys can be believed. Tatas will never come to TN as they have already burnt their fingers once whatever said and done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prashanthyr View Post
I guess if some one can come up with a win-win situation for everyone - WB Govt, MB, People and Tatas, then the problem automatically evaporates. Question is what could be the win-win situation? Some alternatives that come to mind:

a. Some compromise from Tata and MB, with Tata/WB govt giving up some land and MB giving up some of the tough postures
b. WB govt provides farmers with alternate land in a 10-20 km radius and MB gives up her protest. Farmers have their livelihood, Tata has its plant, MB 'wins' and WB govt retains Tata
and so on.........
But who will bell the cat? Everybody is busy maintaining their egos. The farmers cannot be given land as whatever the distances you have mentioned as it may not be feasible to them.They also need to do their work i.e., plough fields, put the grains, put the fertilizer on to the crops etc. They cannot go to work 10~20 kms every day as they would not be having any transport facilities. They have to take the plough/the grains /the fertilizers etc to the fields where they work.

Only thing I would see is give them adequate compensation and give them some fields so that they can earn their livelihood or give them jobs in the company itself in housekeeping activities etc. This may help out the farmers in some way. But would MB want this? This is a big question where we do not have any answers as yet.
snaronikar is offline  
Old 29th August 2008, 20:39   #198
BHPian
 
agentsmith2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 130
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by agentsmith2
Calling Mamata Bannerjee names disrespects millions who vote for her. It disrespects our democracy.
Sorry - in a democracy you are entitled to your opinion, therefore if there are people who wish to call her names, they have every right to do so. Because...
I never said you cannot disrespect :-)

I'm talking about the 'Das' guy in the story - not Mamta Bannerjee herself. The story is about this guy not being happy - and hence putting up resistance.

Please understand that Mamta Bannerjee has massive support from the locals. By that account, she's a voice for the thousands who throng her rallies and/or support her.

The Left wants to kill this whole disruption off. They want to steamroll Mamta. They have everything they need to kill this agitation.

Why are they - the Govt, and the CPI staff and goons - not able to silence this agitation ?

Because it has the support of hundreds and thousands of villagers.

This is the democracy I was talking about. The Govt and its nexus of workers - such rabid and such efficient as the CPI - can't quell this rebellion. There *must* be something more than just a rabid insane woman barking her way into Singur.

There *must* be something more than what meets the eye.
agentsmith2 is offline  
Old 29th August 2008, 20:50   #199
BHPian
 
agentsmith2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 130
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
The fact that you throw stones at a monument, does not make you a hero just because you are small and the monument is large. It makes you a coward, because it took years of effort to build that monument and you are unable to appreciate the fact that the monument will not retaliate.
If that Monument is a statue of King George's in India under the imperial rule, then I would spend my entire life trying to break it apart.

Your arguments sound similar to the reservations Imperialist Britain had against Gandhi - and against the non-cooperation movement. It break Indian economy apart alright, but we did it anyway.

Singur doesn't want something - so its people are standing up against it. Right or wrong - its their choice. Mamta is just channelizing their struggle. If not her, someone else might have done the same.

Its not her, its the local villagers who dont want to sell - and the people that show up in her rallies. They're not being paid to be there - Mamta has no funds to fund this struggle - they're there because they believe in it. They don't want Tatas in. So they're doing what we did - about 80 years ago.
agentsmith2 is offline  
Old 29th August 2008, 21:33   #200
Senior - BHPian
 
snaronikar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 2,845
Thanked: 23 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by agentsmith2 View Post
There *must* be something more than just a rabid insane woman barking her way into Singur.

There *must* be something more than what meets the eye.
Yes, but what is it?

1) Does the tatas/Govt did not pay the kickbacks to MB as demanded? It might be vague but this may also be one of the factor.
2) Farmers did not get equal amount of money as per today's prevailing rate?
3) Farmers did not get any job in the plant as promised to them?
4) Tatas themselves does not want to set up the plant there and are just demanding for normalcy from WB govt.
5) WB govt wants to earn sympathy from all others quarters or political parties showing that they are willing to do anything for commencing operations making MB as the scapegoat.
6) WB govt wants to divert the attention of people as they are the ones pulled out of the union govt.

These are some of the points coming into my mind right now. Maybe some of them might be true or false or all of them might be false also. Nobody is coming out clearly that what are they going to do as next steps which is very frustrating to the people who are watching this as layman.
snaronikar is offline  
Old 29th August 2008, 21:45   #201
BHPian
 
agentsmith2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 130
Thanked: Once
Default

or 7) People don't want to sell their fertile land no matter what the price is [the current price being offered however is extremely low]

Please read the article on Das where he reiterates he doesn't want to part with his land. No price is sufficient. Its more complicated than just wishing these people away assuming they're morons - and blaming MB for it all. We, the armchair critics, have no idea on the ground realities, to be honest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snaronikar View Post
Yes, but what is it?

1) Does the tatas/Govt did not pay the kickbacks to MB as demanded? It might be vague but this may also be one of the factor.
2) Farmers did not get equal amount of money as per today's prevailing rate?
3) Farmers did not get any job in the plant as promised to them?
4) Tatas themselves does not want to set up the plant there and are just demanding for normalcy from WB govt.
5) WB govt wants to earn sympathy from all others quarters or political parties showing that they are willing to do anything for commencing operations making MB as the scapegoat.
6) WB govt wants to divert the attention of people as they are the ones pulled out of the union govt.

These are some of the points coming into my mind right now. Maybe some of them might be true or false or all of them might be false also. Nobody is coming out clearly that what are they going to do as next steps which is very frustrating to the people who are watching this as layman.
agentsmith2 is offline  
Old 29th August 2008, 22:19   #202
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Thad E Ginathom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 7,839
Thanked: 7,207 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass View Post
Extremely well put. You need to take care of a million things when you do something constructive, but putting in a spoke is one small easy thing!
It is amazing how free people are with their starting points in history. Usually it is a case of ignoring what went before, because it does not fit their ideology, aims, or opinions.

So who threw the spoke in the wheel here? Everything going just swimmingly, until this lady happened along? I hardly think so.

Of course politicians jump on the nearest convenient bandwagon; it is part of what they do in life; sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. Those who support the bandwagon praise them, those who don't criticize them.

I see somebody even suggested a trumped-up charge on which she might be arrested! Bravo! There is the true spirit of modern Indian politics showing through!

Good grief, guys: some of you can't bear to hear a word against Ratan Tata; some of you can't bear to hear a word for MB. All completely beside the point.

The whole thing is an object lesson in utter mismanagement, and, even if just for that, it deserves to fail.

But what then... what if it does? Will the farmers ever get their land back? Would they ever be able to turn land that has been built on back to fertility? I doubt both.

Loose-Loose.

As has been said, a win-win option is desperately needed. That is not going to happen without full and generous appeasement of the common people involved here. And why should it?

Like for instance; insofar as anyone got paid for their land, did it get 'valued' as agricultural land ---or Industrial? I don't know, but, if the former, then can anyone here, after having stripped away the names they love and the names they hate, say that this was anything other than fraud?
Thad E Ginathom is offline  
Old 29th August 2008, 23:20   #203
BHPian
 
MontyKING's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Noida, India
Posts: 87
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Bhpians, request you all to go through the follwing link :

Calcuttaweb - Singur Tata
MontyKING is offline  
Old 29th August 2008, 23:42   #204
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Vizag
Posts: 1,982
Thanked: 1,341 Times
Default

Agentsmith, why are you so much against Tata? And who is this "Das" guy that you so fondly speak about? Do you know him, have you met him? He may be an affected farmer. Then again he may not be. He may be just a media creation, a hype. For all you know he may be a Mamta supporter masquerading as an affected farmer holding microphone and ranting endlessly. Such planted opinions are not uncommon. Any news can be twisted one way or the other.

I do not work for Tatas nor do I even own a Tata car. But I have seen their philnathopic spendings on rural and community services in the city of Jamshedpur. Their industrial contribution to this country is immense. What is the philanthropic contribution and / or industrial contribution of Mamta to this country?

My point is, in the background of all the philanthropic acts of Tatas, it is hard to believe that they have not adequately compensated the affected farmers. I am sure the Tatas have, but the money, I feel, is somehow "lost in translation". Someone somewhere has pocketed it. I am sure if Tatas had dealt directly with farmers, things would have been quite diffrent.

As for Mamta, it is too late for her to back down now. I know Bengalis. They will kill her if she changes her stand now. She must be praying and hoping that Tatas pull out of WB and save her life.
pgsagar is offline  
Old 29th August 2008, 23:46   #205
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,834
Thanked: 1,503 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
As for Mamta, it is too late for her to back down now. I know Bengalis. They will kill her if she changes her stand now. She must be praying and hoping that Tatas pull out of WB and save her life.
Yes I agree - she's painted herself into a corner now. If there is no change, her political career is as good as finished, which is why it is a pity that a whole project is now in serious doubt - all because she cannot back down.

Meanwhile, other industrialists (including M Ambani!!) have thrown their weight behind the Tatas in what must surely be a first for Indian Industry:

Setback for country if Nano forced out of WB: Industry leaders- Automobiles-Auto-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times

Thad - You keep talking about poor farmers and their farmland being taken away forcibly WITHOUT COMPENSATION. Would you care to share more details with us?

Last edited by Steeroid : 29th August 2008 at 23:52.
Steeroid is offline  
Old 29th August 2008, 23:56   #206
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Shillong
Posts: 925
Thanked: 83 Times
Default

I feel that Mamta's political career will be over anyways. The people of Bengal and especially Singur will regret if Tatas pull out (including the farmers). Currently the farmers are being backed by the BUPC (Bhoomi something) and TMC and once Tatas pullout, the circus will be over and Singur and its people will be left licking their wounds and they will be back to the jungle raaj! What this will do is that slowly all other districts will see a huge pullback in investments and WB will be back to where it was 15-20 years ago.

Yesterday, there was a story on CNBC that Bhushan Steel is also considering pulling out of Singur if Tatas do so. There are many others who will do it. Many companies which were planning investing in the state have withdrawn their plans. Ultimately when this happens the people of Bengal will realise that Mamta did this to extract political mileage and try to gain foothold in the Communist backyard and in the end she brought doom to the whole state. That is when it will be curtains for her and TMC.

Another senario is that we may soon see a rebellion in TMC itself if Tatas announce that they are pulling out. That way too, it will be curtains for Ms. Banerjee.

She is now between the devil and the deep sea. It has all backfired for her and she has no way to get out of it. Serves her right if you ask my opinion.

In response to people who are claiming that the poor farmers are being exploited by having their lands taken away from them, we need to understand that wherever industrialisation has taken place, the lives of the natives of that region has improved. We all know that in India the farmers are one of the most exploited of all its citizens. There is atleast some hope for them if companies like the Tatas come in and set up industries. We are all aware of what the Tatas did for Jamshedpur and now even Pantnagar in HP has had a makeover. Kudos to the Tatas. I have always been an advocate for Ratan Tata to be honored with the Bharat Ratna!

Last edited by SumitB : 30th August 2008 at 00:04.
SumitB is offline  
Old 30th August 2008, 00:03   #207
BHPian
 
METISWHG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Una
Posts: 119
Thanked: 11 Times
Angry farmers & Tata

[quote=Thad E Ginathom;958442]
Loose-Loose.

right said there its a loose loose. my 2 cents on it:
1. Right when Tata bought JLR and 'PR'ed Nano to the world, they might end up as a laughing stock if nano doesnt end up on time. their business acument will up up for people to take an shot at.
2. the farmer looses both ways...does sitting on a dharna, in a local fair like atmosphere does any good to a marginal farmer who was surviving on a certain peice of land till now and has just lost it for a certain price. and even if he gets it back, how long will it last with his family growing up?

I have been to do some reserach on tractors and bt cotton in guntur and punjab rajasthan borders, and i know well how much do politicians care about farmers except for a loan waiver on pre election budget. the only one gaining in this is Mamta, the farmers get nothing out of it, the daily paid labour(working in Tata plant or something related to it) losses a full meal day for his/her familly and our in our democracy flourishes another leader, gaining at others loss. someone rightly said "if voting could change anything, they woudl make it illegal"
METISWHG is offline  
Old 30th August 2008, 00:17   #208
BHPian
 
MontyKING's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Noida, India
Posts: 87
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

With due respect to all, I feel that transfering 1000 acres of prime fertile farmland to industrialists is a dangerous policy that governments are following. In luring in industry through cheap land we are compromising our core strengh - agriculture. India has an excess food production against a world backdrop of food crisis. We are fortunate not to import food products. This situation may change rapidly if the current policy on land continues. Further to this I may add that West Bengal lags behind in food production of Bihar and Orissa (among other states) and still fertile farmland is the casuality. There are a lot of land within the state which is infertile or uncultivable. The governments should designate non fertile lands as available for industialisation.

I have very high regards for the TATA group, but they are not all that clean either. Remember the Greenpeace protests?

The Hindu Business Line : Withdraw from Dhamra, Greenpeace tells Tata Steel
MontyKING is offline  
Old 30th August 2008, 00:53   #209
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London
Posts: 525
Thanked: 191 Times
Default

@agentsmith: The article in Businessweek that you are quoting - have you noticed how one sided it is? There is no attempt to ascertain facts from either public records or WB govt or Tatas. Its your standard blinkered view by the western media.
@MontyKing: Not sure if you are aware: Greenpeace has not been able to substantiate any allegations. They have themselves been accused of altering reports to suit their needs.

Back to the topic: The WB govt bought the land and leased it to the Tatas. If the WB govt has not compensated the farmers properly, is it Tata's mistake? Look at this analogy - a lot of farmland around cities is being converted for housing. So if for ex, the builder of your flat has not compensated the farmer/owner of the land properly (Legally acquired, but monetarily deemed insufficient) , is it your mistake? Do you need to give up your flat and go elsewhere? A similar situation has happened in my family, where we bought land from a developer and the original owner (who sold it to the developer) is now claiming right on the land saying the price given (10 yrs back) is too low. The matter is in the high court now after the lower courts ruled in our favor and the original owner appealed. I believe its a similar situation with the Tatas being held responsible for something they didnt do.
prashanthyr is offline  
Old 30th August 2008, 00:57   #210
Senior - BHPian
 
NetfreakBombay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,385
Thanked: 336 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
My point is, in the background of all the philanthropic acts of Tatas, it is hard to believe that they have not adequately compensated the affected farmers.
Numbers :

Price offered to farmers : $10,000 to $15,000 per acre

That translates to : INR 10 - 15 per square feet

I grew up in a village where farming if primary source of earning.

Current price of cultivated land (that grows 3 crops in a year) :
INR 40 - 60 per square feet (depending on irrigation / road reach etc).

And this is my native village in north India, not some land where someone could buy and expect to get converted to urban area in 15 -20 years.

OTOH if land is getting acquired for building a business, it must be valued as industrial land.

In that case cost will be much higher.
NetfreakBombay is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pics: The Abandoned Tata Nano Factory at Singur, West Bengal Rajeevraj The Indian Car Scene 58 7th September 2016 13:58
Ratan Tata praises rival Mahindra, rues Tata Motors' sales DukeNukem The Indian Car Scene 78 28th October 2013 22:50
M&M may pull out of their JV with Renault-Nissan: CNBC ashutoshb The Indian Car Scene 26 29th December 2008 18:52
M&M may pull out of their JV with Renault-Nissan tushky The Indian Car Scene 2 5th January 2008 05:40
4 bombs explode at tata plant at singur devarshi84 The Indian Car Scene 28 11th January 2007 21:42


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 07:27.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks