Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 30th August 2008, 13:17   #226
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,712
Thanked: 89,047 Times
Default

HBS case studies are already being compiled on this incident. Sighhhhhhhhh....the Enron incident alone deterred substantial FDI from Maharashtra.
GTO is offline  
Old 30th August 2008, 14:15   #227
Senior - BHPian
 
snaronikar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 2,845
Thanked: 23 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by agentsmith2 View Post
Have you noticed how one sided this discussion is, towards Tatas ? Jail MB, get her out. She's dead. Her career over. Why ? Because she dares take on the mighty Tatas ?
Nope. We don't believe in one sided discussions. You cannot blame this thread since it is in car forum, and all the opinions expressed are supporting towards cars manufacturing. We do debate on what is right/wrong and who is right and often tend to suppor the person whoever is right (my opinion).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbasak View Post
Just put yourself in the shoes of farmers. Land is every thing to them! It can't be compensated by some money (unless they are happy with it).
. But we do not know what is the actual amount that has gone into the hands of farmers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbasak View Post
Lots of us here are IT professionals. How would you feel if a car company comes to you and say "give me your computer and I'll give you some money". But the money you'd get, you won't be able to buy another computer! So how do you feel? Remember, no computer, no team-bhp
But you always have internet cafes for t-bhp.
snaronikar is offline  
Old 30th August 2008, 14:28   #228
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Thad E Ginathom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 7,839
Thanked: 7,201 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steeroid
I did some research on the cost of land in West Bengal, as the cost per acre of roughly Rs.525,000 (assuming $ 12,500 average from the two price points mentioned by you) seems a fair sum for rural agricultural land
But it is only rural agricultural land until someone decides to build a factory there.

Then it is industrial land, and should be bought according to that price, which must surely be higher?

This is not like a speculator buying land over the years, thinking, maybe one day, or even waiting for the nearby city to extend that far. In that case, I have no problem with the guy getting rich. I have no problem with the people who bought plots within a few kms of Chennai for thousands being able to sell them now for lakhs --- or more.
Thad E Ginathom is online now  
Old 30th August 2008, 15:10   #229
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N.A
Posts: 6,834
Thanked: 1,503 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
But it is only rural agricultural land until someone decides to build a factory there.

Then it is industrial land, and should be bought according to that price, which must surely be higher?
Well in that case we will never have large projects coming up in these states - the high profile case of the 'Smart City' in Cochin comes to mind, where people wanted future valuation for their land because the land prices had shot up after the DIC announced their intention to start such a project. People soon wanted compensation at prices that were higher BECAUSE the project was announced. Its a Catch 22 situation - ideally the initiator of such a project should get the advantage of being the first mover, because the price is higher BECAUSE they have agreed to invest money in developing that piece of land.

The land by itself is worth X. Claiming that you should receive a higher value from the creator of such value is ridiculous - if there is no creator, there is no value.

I really would like to see how much the land in Singur is worth if the Nano project is NOT there.
Steeroid is offline  
Old 30th August 2008, 15:53   #230
Senior - BHPian
 
greenhorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: TN-14
Posts: 6,837
Thanked: 1,310 Times
Default

Thad , Does your car become A Racer if I plan to buy it and enter it in a race ?
Should I pay you the price of a race car for it ?

I guess these people want the value for the land , when tata is willing to pay the price.

Reminds me of the time when A Relative asked for .5 cents of a neighbors land to widen the road to his house. ( the existing road was only wide enough for a bike)
Property prices were 4~5 lakhs per cent there. He expected the neighbour to quote 2~3 lakhs. The neighbor quoted 10. Why? because my relative's land value would go up due to it having car access as opposed to bike access, and he wanted part of that value too.

both arguments make sense judging which side of the argument you're on. Not that this is a 100% appropriate analogy, but to illustrate the Difference in POV people can have

Last edited by greenhorn : 30th August 2008 at 16:01.
greenhorn is online now  
Old 30th August 2008, 16:06   #231
BHPian
 
agentsmith2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 130
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post

The land by itself is worth X. Claiming that you should receive a higher value from the creator of such value is ridiculous - if there is no creator, there is no value.

I really would like to see how much the land in Singur is worth if the Nano project is NOT there.
Then give the land-owners equity in the project. If I hire you and my company creates billions of dollars - do you just expect your market salary then - or do you expect the equity.

It's superbly easy and superflous to blame these farmers for expecting more money than what you think they deserve because:
(a) they are poor, so they don't deserve the money and
(b) you really don't care - do you :-) ?

Put yourself in their position. Sip a cup of hot tea. Then tell me - would you sell me the only thing you've ever owned for pittance ?
agentsmith2 is offline  
Old 30th August 2008, 16:21   #232
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Shillong
Posts: 925
Thanked: 83 Times
Default

The phenomenon we are discussing here is appropriately called Chance Mein Dance Marna in Hindi

What a convenient way to blackmail a company! First allot them land. Then when they invest a considerable amount of money to build the required infrastructure, bring in people from outside and claim that the compensation given earlier was too little! Most of the times it may work but in this case, Mr. Ratan Tata has shown the middle finger and has said that 1500 crores will not be an issue and that they will pull out! Now there are news flashes on all news channels which claim that all vendors will pull out with Tata!
SumitB is online now  
Old 30th August 2008, 16:27   #233
rkg
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: bangalore
Posts: 1,041
Thanked: 543 Times
Default

Land is a fixed asset which a person can pass on from generation to generation.

In these days of limited employment opportunities land offers some sort of livelihood to a family which otherwise can not get salaried employment.

This livelihood can be passed on to children/gran children unlike salaried employment.

Typically most of these farmers can not do any other thing. they know only farming.

You take away his land by paying him few thousand/lakh, which will last him for two/three years in these days of high inflation. what will he do afterwords? How do he earn livelihood?

Land will give him some income every year during his lifetime.

Hence it is imperative to take all these in to account while fixing the remunerative price to farmers.

The best policy I feel is not to take fertile lands for Industry.

There is enough barren land available in this country which will not only help in industrialization but also ensure equitable development of all regions.

Actually in the early days of Independence Policy makers and Industrialists used to think of public welfare also apart from profits.

Industries were established in difficult areas also.

Now only profits will count and Industry wants developed areas only for setting up new units

( what else will explain the demand for land in east and west godavari districts of AP near kakinada for SEZ's. these lands yield two- three paddy crops a year and feed nation. they earned the sobriquet of AP being the granary of India - courtesy Sir Arthur Cotton)

In the name of Industrialization prime fertile land s are taken away and used for real estate purpose.

Now a days one can see most of these industries selling away these lands which they got at low prices decades back at huge prices and adding to bottom line.( Ex HLL in Bangalore, Mills land in Bombay, Britania in Bangalore and many others)

There should a a clause in the land allotment to Industries like" It should be used only for setting up Industry" if it is not so it should revert back to original owner
rkg is offline  
Old 30th August 2008, 16:42   #234
Senior - BHPian
 
Sudipto-S-Team's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 1,294
Thanked: 258 Times
Default

Request you guys to read this link up. America had a similar problem (of course without the dharnas and agitation etc) not too long ago.

Kelo v. City of New London - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In this case it was Pfizer who was playing the role of the Tatas.

The other question that land losers are raising in Singur is why will my neighbour - whose land is not being taken - benefit at my cost? Those whose land was not taken by the Nano project are now selling their land at Rs 40-50 lakh per acre. Tatas are paying a fraction (one tenth) of that.

Further down the road near Asansol they have announced a unique future price mechanism for acquisition of land for an airport. They are going to give a portion of the developed land to the original owners who can then sell it at a premium! Virtually all land owners have agreed to this formula pretty willfully.
Such mechanisms are now being worked out only because Mamata is shouting. Otherwise the CPM government had never thought anything about the farmers earlier. In fact it's high time they removed the sickle from their official symbol. It is completely redundant now in their scheme of things.
However, I find it really nasty of Mamata to hold the poor truckers at ransom and blocking the road for six days now.
Sudipto-S-Team is offline  
Old 30th August 2008, 17:15   #235
Senior - BHPian
 
snaronikar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 2,845
Thanked: 23 Times
Default

One question coming to my mind often is why MB chose to protest at this juncture. Tata Nano project was announced atleast a year back and all the activities like equipments installation and commissioning work was going in till around a fortnight properly as per the schedule. All of a sudden this protest has intensified. Couple of queries:
1) Was she not aware of the tata plant being constructed there from past 1 year?
2) Were the villagers sourrounding the plant were not aware of these facts?
3) Did they really need an instigator like MB to take up their cause?
snaronikar is offline  
Old 30th August 2008, 18:06   #236
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: India
Posts: 360
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SumitB View Post
The phenomenon we are discussing here is appropriately called Chance Mein Dance Marna in Hindi

What a convenient way to blackmail a company!
Rightly said SumitB. Tata need to get out of West Bengal, there will always be a sword above their head, for any manufactured reasons to suit the political purpose.
SuperSyn is offline  
Old 30th August 2008, 18:15   #237
BHPian
 
hkanitkar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: pune
Posts: 643
Thanked: 24 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snaronikar View Post
One question coming to my mind often is why MB chose to protest at this juncture. Tata Nano project was announced atleast a year back and all the activities like equipments installation and commissioning work was going in till around a fortnight properly as per the schedule. All of a sudden this protest has intensified.
my friend, this is what we call a 'choke-hold'. IIRC, common in street fights earlier but now a very commonly used strategical move to get what you want, politically.

IMHO, tatas should move their Nano project to some other state, only to stand by their word. This would definitely be a huge lesson for every single politician in this country.

Somebody on a discussion on some TV channel suggested to have a Vote to decide fate of this project.
Imagine a scenario where such thing would take place in reality. Utter chaos and disrespectful act of democracy, i say.
hkanitkar is offline  
Old 30th August 2008, 18:32   #238
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Shillong
Posts: 925
Thanked: 83 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkanitkar View Post
Somebody on a discussion on some TV channel suggested to have a Vote to decide fate of this project.
Imagine a scenario where such thing would take place in reality. Utter chaos and disrespectful act of democracy, i say.
For instance if there is a vote for this and the verdict is that the people want this project to stay. Do you think Ms. Banerjee will not cry foul? Tata will be out of Singur next week and I hope that this will be a lesson for all politicians in this country.

OT: I wonder what TMC will do once Tata decides to pack up. Will it ban the use of all Tata vehicles (passenger and private including trucks and buses) in WB?
SumitB is online now  
Old 30th August 2008, 18:35   #239
Senior - BHPian
 
NetfreakBombay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,385
Thanked: 336 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snaronikar View Post
All of a sudden this protest has intensified. Couple of queries:
1) Was she not aware of the tata plant being constructed there from past 1 year?
2) Were the villagers sourrounding the plant were not aware of these facts?
3) Did they really need an instigator like MB to take up their cause?
These protests have been going on for more then a year.

MB herself was on 25 day fast in dec 2006.

This incident (Singur) has many parallels with Nandigram where CPI-M carders forcibly acquired land. Fortunately some sense prevailed there and path could be cleared to return land to farmers.
NetfreakBombay is online now  
Old 30th August 2008, 18:49   #240
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: India
Posts: 1,745
Thanked: 19 Times
Default

look at the bright side- the communists are getting a taste of their own medicine. its brilliant!

this method of profit sharing being introduced at asansol, and the other method of handing equity in the company to the original land owners is laudable, but how effective is it when put into practice? who decides how many shares, or how much land should be allotted as compensation?
there is always going to be some one dissatisfied, and the problem gets more acute when people like MB try to cash in on the situation.
rippergeo is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pics: The Abandoned Tata Nano Factory at Singur, West Bengal Rajeevraj The Indian Car Scene 58 7th September 2016 13:58
Ratan Tata praises rival Mahindra, rues Tata Motors' sales DukeNukem The Indian Car Scene 78 28th October 2013 22:50
M&M may pull out of their JV with Renault-Nissan: CNBC ashutoshb The Indian Car Scene 26 29th December 2008 18:52
M&M may pull out of their JV with Renault-Nissan tushky The Indian Car Scene 2 5th January 2008 05:40
4 bombs explode at tata plant at singur devarshi84 The Indian Car Scene 28 11th January 2007 21:42


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 18:52.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks