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Old 30th August 2008, 18:49   #241
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The protests started the very day a group of Tata Motors officials first landed up in Singur. That was in 2006. Protesters have been killed, raped and burnt alive in Singur by hired hooligans. Unfortunately you have got the news only recently because of the scale of the protest. But better late than never.
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Old 30th August 2008, 18:55   #242
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Well in that case we will never have large projects coming up in these states - the high profile case of the 'Smart City' in Cochin comes to mind, where people wanted future valuation for their land because the land prices had shot up after the DIC announced their intention to start such a project. People soon wanted compensation at prices that were higher BECAUSE the project was announced. Its a Catch 22 situation - ideally the initiator of such a project should get the advantage of being the first mover, because the price is higher BECAUSE they have agreed to invest money in developing that piece of land.
In my country, land which has permission for building is not agricultural, and most certainly will not be sold at a price that farm land would fetch. I really can't understand the blind spot on this: the land is being bought to build a factory; it's just fine and dandy for it to make as much as possible for its owners for ever more, but not for the farmer to get lucky. If government wants to back projects that it sees to be good, let it cough up the cash.

Much has been said about Ratan Tata to be admired. I think that it is pretty tough to combine business success with good ethics. Sorry, but I still don't see good ethics here. Industrial land is Industrial land. Pay the price; budget it in the project; get on with the project.

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The land by itself is worth X. Claiming that you should receive a higher value from the creator of such value is ridiculous - if there is no creator, there is no value.
No. It has no value if there is not a market, there is no "x". It has one value if a farmer wants to buy it from a farmer, another if a housing developer wants to buy it, another if an industrialist wants to buy it. How come the rules of economics cease to exist here? Everybody wants the best deal, everybody has a right to the best deal. Yes, of course the price of land should shoot up if some huge project, residential or industrial or commercial, come up.

The market is king, is it not? Then why is it suddenly OK for any organisation to get a huge advantage, at the loss of the land owners who didn't want to move in the first place. It's not playing by any rules of either ethics or economics that I ever heard of, except for the rule of grab and greed, of course.

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I really would like to see how much the land in Singur is worth if the Nano project is NOT there.
Easy. Want to buy a farm?
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Old 30th August 2008, 18:58   #243
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who decides how many shares, or how much land should be allotted as compensation?
In the Asansol case they have agreed on a 20:1 ratio. That is they get paid now for 20 units of land at the current low market value. Later they get 1 unit of the developed land for free.
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Old 30th August 2008, 19:12   #244
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In this case it's not so much Mr Ratan Tata's fault. Tata Motors officials were driven down NH2 and vaguely shown green tracts of farm land. They chose Singur because it makes logistical sense. If I was shown such a place I would take it too. They were shown Singur and not a few miles up or down the road because MB has a strong base in that particular area and CPM thought by throwing the farmers out of there they will reduce MB's strength in that region.
CPM promised Tata Motors that they would hand over one contiguous piece of 1000 acres to them. Tatas accepted the offer. So they did not really directly rob the farmers. They just bought stolen land.
Not even in their wildest imagination could CPM believe that this kind of taking the people for granted will backfire like it has.
No matter how much you want to write MB off, she is being supported by hundreds of thousands of people who are squatting on the highway for six days !!
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Old 30th August 2008, 19:15   #245
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It eludes my comprehension completely as to why no automobile manufacturer wants to set up shop in Andhra Pradesh when the govt is going out of its way to get an auto plant in the state. TATA has gone to Singur and see what is happening. Hopefully the Nano plan will continue but being in Singur could be like having the proverbial sword of Democles hanging on TATA's head.
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Old 30th August 2008, 19:19   #246
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Exclamation Protest is going on from 2006

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The protests started the very day a group of Tata Motors officials first landed up in Singur. That was in 2006. Protesters have been killed, raped and burnt alive in Singur by hired hooligans.
Very true! Commies were determined to take away land by hook or crook from the beginning.

The Singur story is on Wikipedia.
Singur - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


95% of all wars on the world were fought for land only. So, its quite natural that farmers are unwilling to agree with the compensation offered.
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Old 30th August 2008, 21:03   #247
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The price for land which farmers got per acre is between Rs 8 and Rs 12 lakhs.

Current price of land around there is Rs 40-45 lakhs.

Also, for farmers, land is sustenance for the next generation too. So a bit of money is not going to make them feel comfortable. Let's see how many of us will go and do farming in national interest abandoning our careers, and then we can talk about farmers abandoning their land.

Some people just want to cultivate their land.

And it was forcibly taken from them.

Not Tata's fault though - the governnment and the strong arm tactics of the communists got them pissed off. Now deal with it.
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Old 30th August 2008, 22:13   #248
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The problem was there from the beginning of accusitation. CPM (and TMC) did not handle it properly.

Now at this stage (when 80% of construction is finished) TMC's demand is difficult to meet and government say's it's hands are tied becasue there is no law as per which they can give land as compensation for unwilling farmers after distributing the money to the willing farmers.

Further, TMC's consistent refusal for discussion is complicating the matter. Hopefully some solution will be found out and we will see Nano rolling out from Singur although bit delayed.
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Old 30th August 2008, 22:43   #249
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Originally Posted by Sudipto-S-Team View Post
Snaronikar
The protests started the very day a group of Tata Motors officials first landed up in Singur. That was in 2006. Protesters have been killed, raped and burnt alive in Singur by hired hooligans. Unfortunately you have got the news only recently because of the scale of the protest.
The protests had started way back in 2006 when the project was announced initially and is continuing till date. The Tata Motors site is the most fertile one in the whole of the Singur, and the Singur block, in turn, is among the most highly fertile in West Bengal. Consequently, almost the entire local population depends on agriculture with approximately 150,000 making their livelihood directly from it. With the number of direct jobs to be created no more than about 1,000, many of which are expected to go to outsiders, the local populace feel understandably threatened for their livelihood.
So the only option of these people is to starve to death (already we have reports of some). Remember we are taling about illiterate people and the only thing that they know is agriculture.
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Old 30th August 2008, 23:49   #250
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There is an interesting story being featured on UTVi right now titled "Singur - No-Man's Land".

Watch it for some part of the whole story.
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Old 31st August 2008, 00:15   #251
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Originally Posted by lawdgawd View Post
The price for land which farmers got per acre is between Rs 8 and Rs 12 lakhs.

Current price of land around there is Rs 40-45 lakhs.
Price of "agriculture" land at Rs.40-45 Lakhs per acre? Is this first hand information?

Wow! Western Maharashtra is fertile and agro-rich area, but even there the land price is mere fraction of 40-45 Lakhs. I am just wondering, if they can really make so much of money from cultivating this 1 acre land?
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Old 31st August 2008, 00:23   #252
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Originally Posted by lawdgawd View Post
The price for land which farmers got per acre is between Rs 8 and Rs 12 lakhs.

Current price of land around there is Rs 40-45 lakhs.


Also, for farmers, land is sustenance for the next generation too. So a bit of money is not going to make them feel comfortable. Let's see how many of us will go and do farming in national interest abandoning our careers, and then we can talk about farmers abandoning their land.

Some people just want to cultivate their land.

And it was forcibly taken from them.

Not Tata's fault though - the governnment and the strong arm tactics of the communists got them pissed off. Now deal with it.
I don't know if we can trust journalists but the story on UTVi showed an interview that the correspondent had with 2 farmers who sold their lands for the project. One claimed that he was paid 4.3 lakhs for his land whose going rate was 30-50 thousand. The other farmer got 1.06 lakhs for his land which was selling for 20 thousand earlier! Also, they claimed that they used to grow dhaan (rice) before and that too only once a year. This crop was also not certain as they always had the risk of their lands being inundated with water which would then render the whole season, useless. They claimed that after selling their lands, they have formed a village comittee and are now employed as suppliers for the Nano factory and are supplying raw materials for the factory.

In a different story which I had read elsewhere on the internet, Tata has selected candidates from the farming families of Singur and had started imparting training to them for permanent employment at the plant.
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Old 31st August 2008, 01:14   #253
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Put yourself in their position. Sip a cup of hot tea. Then tell me - would you sell me the only thing you've ever owned for pittance ?
1. It isnt a pittance.

2. I would sell, if you were the only buyer. I would bargain with you (not possible because it was the govt in this case), but I wouldnt try and put an end to the only reason why my land gets this value.

Why? Because my only other option may be to sell it at 2 lakhs an acre to a slightly bigger farmer.

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The price for land which farmers got per acre is between Rs 8 and Rs 12 lakhs.

Current price of land around there is Rs 40-45 lakhs.
PLEASE - we're not total idiots when it comes to the price of land. If they were actually paid Rs.8 to 12 lakhs per acre, they would be celebrating. 40 lakhs for an asset that returns Rs15,000 per year???????

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look at the bright side- the communists are getting a taste of their own medicine. its brilliant!
That is the only part of this whole sordid exercise that makes me smile. Unfortunately it is happening to the lot in Bengal who have realized that industry is needed - I would much prefer it if it happened to the lot back in Kerala who are still tilting at imaginary windmills (there arent any real ones left!).

Last edited by Steeroid : 31st August 2008 at 01:22.
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Old 31st August 2008, 02:23   #254
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Originally Posted by Sudipto-S-Team View Post
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In this case it's not so much Mr Ratan Tata's fault. Tata Motors officials were driven down NH2 and vaguely shown green tracts of farm land. They chose Singur because it makes logistical sense. If I was shown such a place I would take it too. They were shown Singur and not a few miles up or down the road because MB has a strong base in that particular area and CPM thought by throwing the farmers out of there they will reduce MB's strength in that region.
CPM promised Tata Motors that they would hand over one contiguous piece of 1000 acres to them. Tatas accepted the offer. So they did not really directly rob the farmers. They just bought stolen land.
Not even in their wildest imagination could CPM believe that this kind of taking the people for granted will backfire like it has.
No matter how much you want to write MB off, she is being supported by hundreds of thousands of people who are squatting on the highway for six days !!
Although I'm really not out to bash Tata, I just find it very unlikely that a world-class business man would be so naive as to not know what was going on, frontside, backside, and under the counter. Somebody in Tata screwed up. Such experienced business people take politicians at face value? sounds like a pretty bad idea to me.

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PLEASE - we're not total idiots when it comes to the price of land. If they were actually paid Rs.8 to 12 lakhs per acre, they would be celebrating. 40 lakhs for an asset that returns Rs15,000 per year???????
Well, sorry, but I think you have no concept whatsoever of the value of the land. It's worth what it is worth to a developer. Isn't that true of the land your house was built on? If someone discovers gold in your garden, would you be content with the mere residential value of the land? I'm pretty sure you would not.

The value of a piece of land is determined by who wants it for what. It has absolutely nothing, nothing to do with what it has been returning for years or decades, unless the use remains unaltered.

Of course farming is more than landowners. Even if the farmers were to be paid for their land at its correct value, that's going to leave a lot of labourers, surely, who had little before, with nothing in the future.

And yes, I continue to use the word 'correct' in this context, because I am not an idiot, and I realise that the value of something has more to so with who wants it and why than anything else.

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 31st August 2008 at 02:24.
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Old 31st August 2008, 08:07   #255
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Although I'm really not out to bash Tata, I just find it very unlikely that a world-class business man would be so naive as to not know what was going on, frontside, backside, and under the counter. Somebody in Tata screwed up. Such experienced business people take politicians at face value? sounds like a pretty bad idea to me.
this I agree with. what were they thinking?


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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Well, sorry, but I think you have no concept whatsoever of the value of the land. It's worth what it is worth to a developer. Isn't that true of the land your house was built on? If someone discovers gold in your garden, would you be content with the mere residential value of the land? I'm pretty sure you would not.
but there is a difference. if someone strikes gold in steer's backyard, and steer is'nt happy with the price offered for his land by one mining company, he can go to another thereby ensuring that he gets a good deal.
who are these people in singur going to go to for better prices?
hyundai is not going to set up there. or any other motor company.

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
The value of a piece of land is determined by who wants it for what. It has absolutely nothing, nothing to do with what it has been returning for years or decades, unless the use remains unaltered.
it will remain unaltered for decades more, if tata pulls out. so will the rest of WB.

BTW,Did they really get paid 8-12 lakh per acre?
if they did, would MB let the farmers be satisfied with that price?
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