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Old 31st August 2008, 08:35   #256
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but there is a difference. if someone strikes gold in steer's backyard, and steer is'nt happy with the price offered for his land by one mining company, he can go to another thereby ensuring that he gets a good deal.
who are these people in singur going to go to for better prices?
hyundai is not going to set up there. or any other motor company.
Then I will wait - and pass the land to my sons and daughters. Being a farmer, I don't know anything else but farming. A lot of farmers here in Maharastra have gone bankcrupt _after_ they sold it for millions - having lost the money to partying, gambling, frivolous investments and the likes.

Why the hurry ?
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Old 31st August 2008, 09:23   #257
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Gold was indeed struck in the Singur area when NHAI (through Malaysian firm Gamuda) made this completely new 4-lane road through paddy fields and declared it NH2. Land prices had shot up back then itself.
Then the Tatas came. Rather CPM brought them in.
Now millions of other industrial houses are coming. Because even at Rs 50 lakh an acre it's cheaper than Gurgaon, Hosur or Pimpri etc. They are negotiating directly with the farmers and paying stupendous prices. The going rate of an acre on the other side of the road across the proposed Tata factory is Rs 50 lakh per acre.
The Singur region - though agricultural now has very low other infrastructure costs like water, manpower etc.
Another reason why Tatas chose that area is its proximity to Burdwan district. This district has seen the largest number of two-wheeler sales in the country in the past several years. Tatas wanted to tap this potential market for Nano.
Singur farmers who had to give land to Tatas could not negotiate the price. They had to accept what the CPM government gave them. This is where Mamata got in.
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Old 31st August 2008, 10:20   #258
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Originally Posted by agentsmith2 View Post
Then I will wait - and pass the land to my sons and daughters. Being a farmer, I don't know anything else but farming.
pass on do bigha zameen to 3-4 offspring and fragment it further? so that they can go further into subsistence farming mode? so that they can go deeper into poverty and become the ready supporters of whoever is pretending to champion their cause?

I dont know how much the farmers were offered as compensation. sudipto seems to be well informed. 8-12 lakhs is the number being quoted. 50 lakhs is supposed to be the land value there now(was that before or after tata's plant came up?)

i agree, that if what sudipto is saying is true about the NH2, then the farmers have every right to be angry. but how much are they entitled to?how much are they demanding? what are they demanding?

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A lot of farmers here in Maharastra have gone bankcrupt _after_ they sold it for millions - having lost the money to partying, gambling, frivolous investments and the likes.
and according to you, who's fault is that?

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Why the hurry ?
MB is in no hurry at all. farmers are not in a huge hurry either, but they are starving now with this full time protest business. Tata is. hence they are being held by the short and curlies.



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Gold was indeed struck in the Singur area when NHAI (through Malaysian firm Gamuda) made this completely new 4-lane road through paddy fields and declared it NH2. Land prices had shot up back then itself.
when was this and by how much at that point did the price go up?
price should have been fixed there.
even that can be argued against. all land in this country will be developed at some point. all land in this country will go up in value. saying that it will go up in the future, does not entitle the seller to quote outrageous prices. the buyer will walk away if that happens. that is how commerce works.

in this case, the middle man messed up the purchase(I think) and the buyer has already sunk his money into the project. there is no escape for the buyer now. he cant walk away. he is being held hostage.

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Originally Posted by Sudipto-S-Team View Post
Singur farmers who had to give land to Tatas could not negotiate the price. They had to accept what the CPM government gave them. This is where Mamata got in.
normally CPM picks its victims carefully, it goes for the middle class, people who are really powerless to protect themselves,because they do not know how to organise themselves into a mob. they have bled that source dry now.

this time they screwed up.
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Old 31st August 2008, 10:39   #259
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This is sad. All future investment it WB is going to screw up. Read news that TATAs have invested over 400 cr there. Many locals will also going to get effected. I think tatas will pull out from there or at least the NANO project will get transfered. if every thing gets resolved, they may use this facility for other products.
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Old 31st August 2008, 11:36   #260
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Well, sorry, but I think you have no concept whatsoever of the value of the land. It's worth what it is worth to a developer. Isn't that true of the land your house was built on? If someone discovers gold in your garden, would you be content with the mere residential value of the land? I'm pretty sure you would not.

The value of a piece of land is determined by who wants it for what. It has absolutely nothing, nothing to do with what it has been returning for years or decades, unless the use remains unaltered.
We all understand difference between value and price. If someone doesn't want to sale the land for whatever reasons, even 50 lakhs/acre would be less.

However, here we are complaining about farmers being paid less money, which according to whatever little I know about land prices, is complete hogwash. Even in Western Maharashtra, where fertile land prices are traditionally much higher than anywhere else, doesn't command 40-50 lakhs for "agriculture" land.

If farmers Pune, went bankrupt due to partying, gambling, it can't be fault of industrialist.

We have always been taught that farming is India's primary means of living. So, industry displacing farmers is always painted as evil. But, then why do next generation of farmers want to relocate to industrialized cities at the drop of hat? Why do they want to work in industries? Why don't they want to stay back at villages?

As the same time, I don't understand why many governments are hell bent on settling up industries on fertile land? Why can't they offer land to industries, where agriculture is non-existent or returns very low ROI?
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Old 31st August 2008, 11:49   #261
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Some people in this forum are of the view that loss of farmland spells doom for the farmer whose family depends on that farm income for livelihood. Really? Do they have any idea about annual return on any given size of farmland? It is peanuts. And I am talking about rich farmlands of AP. It will be even worse in less fertile farmlands of WB. Since when has WB become so well known for farming? It is AP for rice and Punjab for wheat that are considered to have best farmlands.

And even in AP people are so fed up of meagre returns that they are selling their farmlands and getting out. There were families who were struggling to make ends meet on farm income but the minute they sold their land to developers, they netted crores. Here, we often hear about families who couldn't afford a second hand scooter and after land sale, they bought half a dozen flats and half a dozen cars. You can see these guys all over AP at the car decor shops. They walk in with their brand new cars and spend as much on accessories. Their favorite cars are Scorpio and Skoda, the names of which they can't even probably spell, but then what the hell. These ex-farmers have all the moolah. Real estate boom has meant windfall for these guys. Forget IT, forget business. These guys are the most sought-after grooms in AP now. Sometime back there was an article in DC that a farm family outside Hyderabd, who could barely afford two square meals a day, who used a rusty bicycle for his transport, sold his land for 80 crores. Beat that!
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Old 31st August 2008, 12:02   #262
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Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
These protests have been going on for more then a year.
MB herself was on 25 day fast in dec 2006.
But why all of a sudden these protests has taken such a intensity? They could have very well done this in 2006 itself, right?
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Old 31st August 2008, 12:14   #263
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Come on guys!
In 2006, the property rates didn't shoot up like today nor our very own MB didn't get a chance to hit bulls eye by joining forces.

So, the intensity of the protest had to rise up exactly at this time.
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Old 31st August 2008, 12:14   #264
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Originally Posted by snaronikar View Post
But why all of a sudden these protests has taken such a intensity? They could have very well done this in 2006 itself, right?
THAT, my friend, is the whole point. The project was announced over 2 years back. Why is there suddenly a whole new intensity to the 'agitation' now that the plant is nearing completion and the product is expected to roll out soon? Its not that Mamata Banerjee found out about the plant last month.

Makes you wonder if it has something to do with the October 2008 release date for the Nano, doesnt it? It makes a lot of people wonder - those who choose to ignore the obvious can go about pretending that they are speaking on behalf of the poor farmer.
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Old 31st August 2008, 12:26   #265
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But why all of a sudden these protests has taken such a intensity? They could have very well done this in 2006 itself, right?
Actually only the media coverage of the protest has gone up. Not the protest tempo per se. The tempo of the protest actually is fairly low now. No one has been injured so far during this phase. Except a few Tata employees who were slapped a bit for going to work. Earlier people there have died for protesting. Remember Nandigram?

National media coverage has increased now because the project is at a very crucial stage and Nano launch was scheduled for October. Also NH2 is being blocked for about a week now leading to massive 50-60 km long jams.

Incidentally in West Bengal Sajjan Jindal's project is going on fine and so are the Dhoot's projects. What went wrong with the Tatas? Indeed as someone said here, the middle man in this case messed up things.
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Old 31st August 2008, 13:06   #266
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Also i think this protest will help tata to relocate from WB and price the nano higher for the masses
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Old 31st August 2008, 14:36   #267
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Also i think this protest will help tata to relocate from WB and price the nano higher for the masses
I do not think they will raise the price of Nano as they have promised to deliver the Nano with 1 Lac. It will be too embrassing for them. Then their Chairman's word to people of India will not be adhered. You rember he has informed during launch when asked about the rise in i/p costs as "a promise is a promise".

Moreover people have respect towards tatas and if they increase price, then that will be at stake. They would not risk this as it will affect their overall businesses. Not only if will affect automobile business, it will affect other businesses too. They will have very bad reputation internationally also. Hence they cannot afford to increase the cost of Nano atleast during launch. They may increase due to rise in i/p costs say after 6 months...
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Old 31st August 2008, 14:50   #268
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Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
... ... ...Even in Western Maharashtra, where fertile land prices are traditionally much higher than anywhere else, doesn't command 40-50 lakhs for "agriculture" land.
Didn't some politician once say, watch my lips...

It is NOT agricultural land any more once it has been earmarked and approved for residential, commercial or industrial use
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Old 31st August 2008, 14:51   #269
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Some "outside influence" is the guiding force behind 90% of the agitations organized in the interests of the "aam aadmi". Me thinks same is the case here.
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Old 31st August 2008, 15:33   #270
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We need a poll: Agitation (pro Farmer) v Non-agitation (pro Govt)
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