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Old 31st August 2008, 23:24   #286
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Glass
Personally I agree that an Infosys or the Tata group are epitomes of ethical organisations. And they should be the role models for others to follow. Personally I have had the good fortune of dealing with the Tatas at one stage of my life professionally and I know for certain they would never do something unethical - come what may.
I should believe same would be true for Infosys and many other companies.
But these are all subjective observations, opinions and perceptions. They cannot be quantified. And at the end of the day they are all in existence for the profit motive. Which is fine.
But officially or in the eyes of the law there cannot be any difference between any two business enterprises. A Tata enterprise is just the same as a Reliance enterprise. Officially there is no difference between the two.
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Old 31st August 2008, 23:26   #287
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This is a very relevant issue concering farmers and industrialisation. on one hand farmers are finding farming non-profitable and many are in debt and commiting sucides. on the other hand, industries are not been allowed to come on farming land. my opinion is
* use non-farming land / waste-land for industrial use. IMO india has enough of them as well.
* a better way would be give the farmers a stake in the industry/company which acquires their land (like ESOPs).
* the industry should also come forward with a plan where the farmers are given some vocational training or a involved in some ancillary work with the industry. this will ensure that in addition to the compensation, he will get some work.
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Old 1st September 2008, 00:49   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snaronikar View Post
... If tatas had not come there, the land prices would have been much lower than what it is today.
And there would be no problem; no news; no controversy.

I just don't know why you guys cannot see the trees for the wood here!
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Old 1st September 2008, 01:00   #289
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And there would be no problem; no news; no controversy.
No progress, either. Status quo may be quaint, but it isnt going to feed the millions in Bengal in the times to come. The idea here is not to avoid news/controversy/problems.
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Old 1st September 2008, 01:03   #290
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Steeroid, I think you are basically into the idea of a capitalist system? In which profits can be made? You wouldn't object to businesses and individuals making large profits, given the opportunity?
I used to head up the communist students wing in my college, the SFI. I was one of those who spoke vitriolically FOR the party against what was then called "computerization" during the 'struggle' (HAHA!) to keep that evil manifestation of Western Capitalism out of our pure, pristine and wonderful education system when they wanted to introduce computer education in our universities. But thats another story.

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Why are so utterly determined that these farmers, real estate businessmen, or whatever we call them, should not have this opportunity.
You really dont get it, Nick. THIS is their opportunity. No project = back to square one. I have nothing against them - I do have an issue, however, with politicians who want to be seen as representing them but will ultimately kill the project and any chance the next generation has of a better life. It is NOT the people, but the politicians who claim to represent 'the people' who are the issue here.

Why do I take this personally? Because I come from a state that has had its industrial base destroyed by such 'protectors of the people', and its reputation tattered so badly that nobody in their right senses will ever invest in such a project here. Have you ever wondered why every Keralite grows up and tries to get out of his/her state ASAP? Its not because they dont like their own land, but they know they will never be able to prosper in this communist utopia where everyone HAS to be equal - which basically means dragging everyone down to the lowest level, not bringing everyone up to the highest.

When you've seen this happening before and see someone else about to commit harakiri all over again, you tend to get worked up.

If the High Court has ruled that the acquisition is legal and done as per law, what's your issue here?

Last edited by Steeroid : 1st September 2008 at 01:20.
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Old 1st September 2008, 01:16   #291
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@Steeroid: Completely agree with you.

@Thad E Ginathom: No one wants to deny the farmers the right to their land. But in this case, we have a state government which has legally acquired the land (proven in court) from farmers (willing/unwilling) and have leased it to a company (Tata Motors).
Now if the farmers feel short changed (am assuming they are feeling it - but more likely the politicians feel short changed) after 2 years because land prices have gone up (courtesy the development the company has brought), do you go and penalise the company by asking it to leave or part with some land?
Is this morally or ethically right?
The support for the Tatas in this forum and elsewhere can be explained the fact that they have operated in a Trust worthy manner for more than a century and earned the respect of most Indians. And most of us have either dealt with them as employees or vendors or customers at some point in life.

of course, the debate on giving fertile land to industry is a completely different one.

Last edited by prashanthyr : 1st September 2008 at 01:19. Reason: clarified a point
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Old 1st September 2008, 02:44   #292
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Communism: perhaps the world's best ever political idea, and the world's worst ever political reality.

I don't know... Listening to what you say. Despite my massive feeling that it just is not right, I don't know enough to take it further, and repeating myself is getting boring, so I guess I'd better take a back seat and watch.
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Old 1st September 2008, 16:40   #293
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Can anyone tell me who really owns this so called fertile land that is being fought over?. Isn't it the Government?. Also, who is really funding the logistics behind this agitation?. It takes a lot to get thousands of folks to Singur(transportation), provide refreshments/food/water etc. and how come MB defies a court order and gets away with it?. There are more unanswered questions than solutions in this conundrum.

Last edited by nickatnite : 1st September 2008 at 16:41.
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Old 1st September 2008, 16:43   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass View Post
Isn't an Infy or Tata Steel as good for the society - I would think it is, private or public.
If tatas happen to pull out, lets be sure that the state will be doomed in future for any industrialization purpose. The Infy and Wipro will also follow the same suit as nobody wants to get into unnecessary hassles wasting the time and money on these petty issues. Hope some good sense will prevail on our politicians and they act accordingly. The sooner the better for everybody.
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Old 1st September 2008, 17:24   #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickatnite View Post
Can anyone tell me who really owns this so called fertile land that is being fought over?. Isn't it the Government?.
NO.. farmers are the owners of this land.
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Old 1st September 2008, 17:38   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
NO.. farmers are the owners of this land.
Farmers WERE the owners before the land was acquired compulsorily by the Govt. at rates decided not mutually (as would have been the case had Tatas or any other third party bought the land from them) but solely by the Govt.

Govt. owns the land now. Lots of farmers have refused to accept the compensation (basically the sale consideration) offered by the Govt. in lieu of the land.

It's not as simple as it sounds!

Last edited by directinjection : 1st September 2008 at 17:40.
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Old 1st September 2008, 21:11   #297
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OT: If you happen to see this, just watch out the debate in TV channel Times now on Singur's Nano project starting in just a couple of mins.
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Old 2nd September 2008, 13:33   #298
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I hear Mamata has climbed down significantly from her earlier position of no negotiation. Hope this is the first sign of a resolutions.
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Old 2nd September 2008, 14:59   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudipto-S-Team View Post
Glass
Personally I agree that an Infosys or the Tata group are epitomes of ethical organisations. And they should be the role models for others to follow. Personally I have had the good fortune of dealing with the Tatas at one stage of my life professionally and I know for certain they would never do something unethical - come what may.
I should believe same would be true for Infosys and many other companies.
But these are all subjective observations, opinions and perceptions. They cannot be quantified. And at the end of the day they are all in existence for the profit motive. Which is fine.
But officially or in the eyes of the law there cannot be any difference between any two business enterprises. A Tata enterprise is just the same as a Reliance enterprise. Officially there is no difference between the two.
Sudipto
Are you really so 'naive' to believe in all what you have written!!!
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Old 2nd September 2008, 15:29   #300
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You summed it up very nicely Steeroid.

If tatas pull out of Singur, it will not be these "representatives" who lose but the poor farmers (compensation) and the common man (thousands of jobs in the factories).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
THIS is their opportunity. No project = back to square one. I have nothing against them - I do have an issue, however, with politicians who want to be seen as representing them but will ultimately kill the project and any chance the next generation has of a better life. It is NOT the people, but the politicians who claim to represent 'the people' who are the issue here.

Why do I take this personally? Because I come from a state that has had its industrial base destroyed by such 'protectors of the people', and its reputation tattered so badly that nobody in their right senses will ever invest in such a project here. Have you ever wondered why every Keralite grows up and tries to get out of his/her state ASAP? Its not because they dont like their own land, but they know they will never be able to prosper in this communist utopia where everyone HAS to be equal - which basically means dragging everyone down to the lowest level, not bringing everyone up to the highest.

When you've seen this happening before and see someone else about to commit harakiri all over again, you tend to get worked up.
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