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Old 16th September 2008, 11:58   #466
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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
You have a point, but can you hold up everything else just because people are not responsible enough to handle the compensation they receive? I'm afraid not.
Not in this case as the farmers have a chance of finding employment within TATA motors, but in other cases, example the Narmada project, lot of farmers received handsome compensation from govt. (higher than market value) but still ended up in slums.

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Law is determined by people. It is not written in stone. And relevant updates in law should be put in coming sessions of parliament.

ANY law that takes away rights to property for such purposes must be repealed.

At least my vote goes for that. And if others feel like it (and vote in the first place) it might happen.
In the US there is something called zoning. If an area is marked as residential, you cannot build any commercial business houses in that area. Similarly, if an area is marked development zone, then there will not be any residential buildings in that area. Also, if a Residential area is rezoned as developmental, the builder can forcibly aquire the land from owners, even if it is just to build a mall!
The residents cannot do anything after an area has been rezoned. However, they can fight rezoning. Usually rezoning is preceded by a town meetings and surveys etc.

This is what is needed in India. I am sure the government does this, but there is not much awareness.

Last edited by Mayavi : 16th September 2008 at 12:03.
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Old 16th September 2008, 12:29   #467
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Tata should pull out of WB immediately. What are they waiting for? Tatas heve got everything to lose when project gets delayed. As for Mamta, it doesn't cost her a dime to stage dharnas, bandhs, protests. It will be bankrolled by some business house who would later have a favourable CM to look after their interests when she comes to power. That is how things work here.
Exactly Tatas should move out of bengal! Lets say even if Left govt ensures this time that project stays and tata start production from Singur, there is no guarantee that there will be no problems later on! Bengal is known for Bandhs and unionbaazi! They could be hit by bandhs later and that would be bad. basically again tatas would suffer and so would workers! tatas are rich enough to absord any losses but not the workers... it was really a very stupid decision by Ratan Tata to go to bengal in the first place!!!
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Old 16th September 2008, 12:51   #468
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I am sorry if this has been pointed out before in this thread, but does anyone feel that Ratan Tata displayed an acute lack of business understanding in this whole fiasco?

I mean, you were putting up THE most important manufacturing plant in a state that had troubled history of bandhs, militant unionism and all that. Even if we give him (and West Bengal) the benefit of doubt on that front, did he have to take a wholly unnecessary dig at Mamta during the Nano unveiling? It is like trying setting up a huge business in Mumbai and calling names at Thackerays!

Come on, you cannot be that naive. Politicians, though unwanted evils, will always remain a part of Indian socio/economic fabric. You cannot just wish them away.

I can very well imagine someone like Ambani or Mittal would have taken pro active steps to ensure that things did not come to such pass. It is one thing to be ethical/moral in your business dealings and other to be pragmatic, esp when so much is at stake.

Last edited by CaAT : 16th September 2008 at 12:53.
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Old 16th September 2008, 17:29   #469
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MAYAVI: In the US there is something called zoning. If an area is marked as residential, you cannot build any commercial business houses in that area. Similarly, if an area is marked development zone, then there will not be any residential buildings in that area. Also, if a Residential area is rezoned as developmental, the builder can forcibly aquire the land from owners, even if it is just to build a mall!
The residents cannot do anything after an area has been rezoned. However, they can fight rezoning. Usually rezoning is preceded by a town meetings and surveys etc.

This is what is needed in India. I am sure the government does this, but there is not much awareness.[/quote]

Zoning was not written in stone even in the US since their independence. Many areas and buildings get re-zoned. The plase I used to live in New York is now a huge office complex. The same thing happens here. We just don't use the word 'zoning' In singur case the farmers wanted the land back after it got rezoned as Industrial area. That's all.

Last edited by sridhga : 16th September 2008 at 17:32.
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Old 16th September 2008, 17:30   #470
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MAYAVI:In the US there is something called zoning. If an area is marked as residential, you cannot build any commercial business houses in that area. Similarly, if an area is marked development zone, then there will not be any residential buildings in that area. Also, if a Residential area is rezoned as developmental, the builder can forcibly aquire the land from owners, even if it is just to build a mall!
The residents cannot do anything after an area has been rezoned. However, they can fight rezoning. Usually rezoning is preceded by a town meetings and surveys etc.

This is what is needed in India. I am sure the government does this, but there is not much awareness.[/quote]

Zoning was not written in stone even in the US since their independence. Many areas and buildings get re-zoned. The place I used to live in New York is now a huge office complex. The same thing happens here. We just don't use the word 'zoning' In singur case the farmers wanted the land back after it got rezoned as Industrial area. That's all.

Sorry I don't understand how it got posted twice. And I can't delete the previous one. I want to add that even in the US zoning is done to favor influential people. My landlord in NY was very influential in the federal govt. So he managed to get his properties rezoned to favor him. People are the same all over the world. Only in some places they do it in style(Call it 'sophisticated').

Last edited by sridhga : 16th September 2008 at 17:41.
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Old 16th September 2008, 19:00   #471
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Originally Posted by Mayavi View Post
In the US there is something called zoning. If an area is marked as residential, you cannot build any commercial business houses in that area. Similarly, if an area is marked development zone, then there will not be any residential buildings in that area .... This is what is needed in India. I am sure the government does this, but there is not much awareness.
Details may vary, but we already have this in India. It is called the "Town Planning Act". Remember the "sealing drive" in Delhi?? That is what all this was about.

Generally in India, zoning, building rules, etc, are a milch cow for politicians, since there will be provisions for exemptions. Exemption orders will have to be decided at the political level (read - Minister). So, good source of grease.
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Old 16th September 2008, 22:20   #472
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The much awaited thing is happening. The MD of Tata Motors Ravi Kant is coming to meet Karnataka CM for discussing Nano project on 18th Sept. Just saw this in News Flash. Hope they will set up the shop here. Govt is proposing land in Dharwad (as they already have land). Hope this materializes.
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Old 17th September 2008, 00:36   #473
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Originally Posted by snaronikar View Post
The much awaited thing is happening. The MD of Tata Motors Ravi Kant is coming to meet Karnataka CM for discussing Nano project on 18th Sept. Just saw this in News Flash. Hope they will set up the shop here. Govt is proposing land in Dharwad (as they already have land). Hope this materializes.
Indeed good news for Karnataka, if this project happens there.
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Old 17th September 2008, 00:53   #474
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Originally Posted by snaronikar View Post
The MD of Tata Motors Ravi Kant is coming to meet Karnataka CM for discussing Nano project on 18th Sept. ... Hope they will set up the shop here. Govt is proposing land in Dharwad (as they already have land). Hope this materializes.
Accost him on his way and make him set it up in AP.
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Old 17th September 2008, 02:26   #475
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Originally Posted by CaAT View Post
I am sorry if this has been pointed out before in this thread, but does anyone feel that Ratan Tata displayed an acute lack of business understanding in this whole fiasco?

I mean, you were putting up THE most important manufacturing plant in a state that had troubled history of bandhs, militant unionism and all that. Even if we give him (and West Bengal) the benefit of doubt on that front, did he have to take a wholly unnecessary dig at Mamta during the Nano unveiling? It is like trying setting up a huge business in Mumbai and calling names at Thackerays!

Come on, you cannot be that naive. Politicians, though unwanted evils, will always remain a part of Indian socio/economic fabric. You cannot just wish them away.

I can very well imagine someone like Ambani or Mittal would have taken pro active steps to ensure that things did not come to such pass. It is one thing to be ethical/moral in your business dealings and other to be pragmatic, esp when so much is at stake.
Yes you're right Ratan Tata is a horrible businessman! He doesn't know how to get it right. He had absolutely no role in growing the Tata conglomerate to what it is today, all the while also caring for the Indian economy and people.

Dude stop making dumb accusitions! Ratan Tata is one of the best businessmen in India today, if not the world! He knew exactly what he was doing, and did accordingly. Going to WB would have helped India as a whole, and that's exactly what he wanted. I bet you would rather everyone forgot about the rest of India and focussed only on the state that you live in.

Please talk about the news and situation at hand and not pass judgement on someone of the Calibre of Ratan Tata! I don't see you on the front page of the Economic Times, or the Wall Street Journal!!!
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Old 17th September 2008, 03:21   #476
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I think CaAT just made a bad choice of words. The choice of state for NANO plant may be a bad judgement on part of Ratan Tata but it in no way is an indication that he lacks business understanding. For godsake, he is the chairman of a a group with a market capitalization of atleast $ 50 billion! No one is perfect,many a business men make bad decision once in a while. It is called taking risk... it would be hailed as a shrewd decision if it works or stupid decision if it doesn't.
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Old 17th September 2008, 11:38   #477
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Originally Posted by DocG View Post
Yes you're right Ratan Tata is a horrible businessman! He doesn't know how to get it right. He had absolutely no role in growing the Tata conglomerate to what it is today, all the while also caring for the Indian economy and people.

Dude stop making dumb accusitions! Ratan Tata is one of the best businessmen in India today, if not the world!
Since we are discussing Singur and only Singur, lets stick to it. There is no point in proclaiming how Mr Tata is primarily responsible for where the Tata group stands today. We all know that. Thank you very much.

I would normally not get into arguements with people who go on talking rubbish, without reading the entire post. But I think you went over the top, hence my response. I would request you to read my post all over again.

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Originally Posted by DocG View Post
He knew exactly what he was doing, and did accordingly. Going to WB would have helped India as a whole, and that's exactly what he wanted.
Once again, my major (and only) gripe against Mr Tata was limited to Singur, which I have made amply clear in my last post, where I said - Ratan Tata displayed an acute lack of business understanding in this whole fiasco.

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Originally Posted by DocG View Post
I bet you would rather everyone forgot about the rest of India and focussed only on the state that you live in.

Please talk about the news and situation at hand and not pass judgement on someone of the Calibre of Ratan Tata! I don't see you on the front page of the Economic Times, or the Wall Street Journal!!!
Please continue with your rant. I give it a pass.



Quote:
I think CaAT just made a bad choice of words. The choice of state for NANO plant may be a bad judgement on part of Ratan Tata but it in no way is an indication that he lacks business understanding.
@Mayavi,

As I said in my post, even if we give him the benefit of doubt over his selection of the state, would it not have been wise for him to tackle the situation without hitting out at someone as notorious as Mamta Banerjee, whose nuisance value cannot be ruled out?

It was indeed courageous on Mr Tata's part to have opted for West Bengal as Nano's home state. He made an emphatic statement with it (as he did by manufacturing the cheapest car in the world) and I believe it also argured well for West Bengal. But having done this much, it would have been more prudent to take along all the politicians with him.

Rs 1500 crores is not a big thing for Tata Group. They can very well shift the entire factory along with their vendors' to some different state (they are all lining up with a red carpet). But don't tell me that Singur spells a loss of face for only WB and MB. It is as much a loss for Tatas too.

Last edited by CaAT : 17th September 2008 at 11:47.
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Old 17th September 2008, 12:15   #478
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Since still so much is being written about how Ratan Tata made a bad choice of location for NANO, I'll reiterate what I said earlier in this post.

Retrospectively, it may appear as a bad decision, but it just could have been a great decision, if things had taken a different "possible" route.
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Old 17th September 2008, 12:39   #479
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Somebody's loss is other's gain, so goes the saying. We are hoping eagerly he will set up the shop here in KA. It will be decided on 18th.

@Glass: Sorry for this. He is off the radar of AP. ;-)
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Old 17th September 2008, 13:34   #480
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Somebody's loss is other's gain, so goes the saying. We are hoping eagerly he will set up the shop here in KA. It will be decided on 18th.

@Glass: Sorry for this. He is off the radar of AP. ;-)
How does it help you if Tatas shift Nano to karnataka? Are you or will you be a vendor for Tatas (or some other business)? Just asking... no malintentions in here
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