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Old 22nd August 2008, 21:51   #46
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Originally Posted by prashanthyr View Post
I clearly remember that the WB government acquired the land from the farmers and then handed it over to Tata.
Yes thats correct. Land is being acquired by Govt.

TATA could have done it themselves by negotiating it with farmers. After all its farmer's property. Even Reliance is doing it in Mumbai (It acquired a HUGE land in Kandivli by giving alternate accommodations + cash to housing societies and slums).
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Old 22nd August 2008, 21:54   #47
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where are the kolkata Tbhpians.
Guys we need a complete perspective here.
Maybe we are missing out on somethings , which you can bring to light.
Please dont shy away from posting your opinions here.
half truth will do more harm than anything else.
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Old 22nd August 2008, 22:10   #48
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Odd that no one from Bengal has commented on this so far. The issue is fairly complex. But the point is - you cannot forcibly take prime agricultural land away from farmers without even so much as consulting them first and gift it away to a business house at a throwaway price and expect people will not protest.
The Left front government has been taking the people for granted for a very long time. They think whatever they decide is right and they don't need to consult me before deciding to take my land away. There is a limit to this nonsense.
To outsiders it does look like hitting your own leg with an axe. But then when people get angry they don't understand logic and more often than not destroy themselves. That's precisely what's happening in West Bengal. Mamata is just encashing this self destructive force of the people by stoking it further.
Tatas, incidentally have not promised any job to any one. And rightly so. They haven't built any charitable hospital for the people of Singur either. Anuj is just a victim of the Tata PR machinery.
To borrow a concept from Sashi Tharoor - West Bengal is not an underdeveloped state. It's just a highly developed state at an advanced stage of decay. West Bengal saw industrialisation way before any one else in this country. It's so far back that it's decaying now.
The slogans that brought the Left to power 30 years ago are now coming back to haunt them. In Orwelian terms the pig is now standing on its two legs.
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Old 22nd August 2008, 22:17   #49
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Cool start a factory in China

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Originally Posted by srijit View Post
Pull out from WB and head over to TN. Or else, just start a factory in China.
hi
yes this a good idea
china has cheap land labour and cheap electricity too and is a fact
b ut best money one can make is also selling the complete tecnology how to manufacture the nano
some time selling tecnology can make more profit than manufacuring it self
i my self have sold many ideas
and make more money than i would have made manufacuring my self

narry
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Old 22nd August 2008, 22:27   #50
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land was acquired by the govt and handed over to TATA. the land in question is said to measure 400acres. of that, 167 acres were said to have been legally occupied. the govt says that these people(167acres) have been compensated. its the remaining people who are agitating(mainly)

all this according to a news channel, who have in turn, been fed by the WB govt. how much of this is true, god knows.

if what the govt says is true, are they justified in not compensating the people who had no documentation to back up their ownership?
I'm unable to form an opinion on that.

on one hand, if they start compensating everyone who claims to be living on the disputed land without any documentation, there will be plenty of unscrupulous people willing to take advantage.

on the other hand, these people are illiterate, poor and living on mainly subsistence agriculture, on land that was claimed by no one for centuries. they dont have time, energy, money or the education to get land registered in their names. hell, why would they? they have been living there since they were born, they thought the land was theirs. they didnt need documents till 2-3 yrs ago.

which is right, and which is wrong? who decides?

the issue of proper compensation is a whole other can of worms.

all these problems are being compounded by the callous attitude of the WB govt and trinamool who are using the poor villagers and tata as pawns in a political game.

Tata made a huge, huge mistake by going to that state
hopefully all industrial houses will learn from this and punish these states(kerala/WB/tripura) by staying away.

@trrk-atleast someone got the sarcasm
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Old 22nd August 2008, 22:33   #51
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Another Calcuttan posting...

1) The opposition to the Singur plant is NOT by communists/CPM. CPM is SUPPORTING the Singur plant. Trinamul Congress is the group opposing the plant. So in this case, blaming the communists is wrong.

2) The general sentiment of Calcuttans is pretty clear. They want Singur to happen. The industry need NEEDS singur to happen.

3) Although the method of taking land is objectionable/debatable, the result would have been great for everyone in Bengal, industrialtist and labour alike.

4) Its just a question of Political mileage which is being obtained at an exhorbidant cost by Mamata Banerjee.
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Old 22nd August 2008, 22:38   #52
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Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
Forcefully snatching land is hardly clean business.
I go to Kolkata every month almost and have many relatives and friends there.I read Kolkata newspapers - the more balanced ones and grasp what they have to say. Rarely anyone from the educated class supports the people who oppose the project just for the sake of opposing it.
There were a few incidents while the land acquisition was going on but later when the political parties came into the fray things took a turn for the worse. There was mud slinging. With the elections round the corner and some leaders being pushed into the oblivion career wise, the only issue left was Singur- solidarity with the masses there for sympathy and for the survival of the leaders.
The legal forum alternative was wide open, but no one ventured here seriously, calculating that the media hype generated by agitations outwit any other mode be it legal or through dialogues or any other means.
If you use the term "forceful' you should know what it means in a democracy. Right to property is fundamental and there are proper forums where this can be contested and enforced.

Last edited by anjan_c2007 : 22nd August 2008 at 22:46.
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Old 22nd August 2008, 22:41   #53
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Text of the news report Source Rediffnews: 22nd Aug 2008
Tata Motors Chairman Ratan Tata on Friday threatened to exit West Bengal if there was no let up in violence at Singur, where the company is building a factory to make the world's cheapest car 'Nano.'
"We are deeply concerned at the violence and disruption and at the safety of our employees, equipment and investments at the project site at Singur," Tata told reporters on the sidelines of the Tata Tea annual general meeting.
"If need be we will move and relocate the Nano project elsewhere. We have made a major investment in West Bengal. To move will be at a great cost to Tata Motors and to shareholders, but relocation will also cost the West Bengal government. However, I will not bring my employees here if they will be beaten up," the Tata Group chairman said.
"We want to understand why Tatas are unwanted in West Bengal. I hope West Bengal does not get characterised as a troubled spot in India," he said.
He said: "It is for the people of West Bengal and Kolkata to decide whether we are unwanted or accept us as a good corporate citizen. If it is the latter, then it is good."
He said that if it was the other, then it would be impossible to alter the plan "following which we would have to make a move despite whatever investments had been already made in the project."
"We have plans to launch the Nano by October 2008, but many do not want that to happen," Tata added.
A visibly disturbed Tata said that Rs 1,500 crore (Rs 15 billion) of investments had been already made in the project.
"There is a sense of tension, violence and disruption (at Singur). Obviously it is not a conducive atmosphere. The compound wall is broken down, materials stolen." Whatever be the cost, we will move out if the situation demands so," he said.
Reacting strongly to Ratan Tata's threat to exit Singur and take the Nano project out of West Bengal, Trinamool Congress chief Mamata Banerjee said, "I am not responsible for the situation."
"Who is indulging in violence," she questioned. She accused the West Bengal government of having "an understanding with the Tatas," and reaffirmed her demand that "people who lost land have to be taken care of."
The main opposition Trinamool Congress in the state is insisting that the company set up operations on 600 acres and return 400 acres of land earmarked for ancillary units to farmers from whom the property was acquired forcibly.
With the state government not relenting to the opposition party's demands, a deadlock has been created leading to tension and violence in the project area.
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Old 22nd August 2008, 22:48   #54
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Originally Posted by girish.r View Post
I think they have reserved the Dharwad plant for luxury bus manufacturing/assembling unit, may be Marcopolo. Not sure though there was this news that some part of this land will be used for assembling Nano kits for Southern region. Regarding Singur, looks like Tata might have got a good deal, cheap land, cheap labor, power and water resources at a very cheap rate etc. There were earlier protests when Tata announced the Nano plant in Singur & again now the protests are back.
Anybody has any info what attracted Tata all the way to WB?
This is purely going to be for Earth moving and heavy vehicles. Tata is angry with karnataka as it bought that land and then it could not set up the Indica manufacturing facility there due to pressure from then CM Devegowda that the plant shoud be in Devenahalli which TATA refused.

IT is high time for them to move out of Bengal and start up somewhere else for the NAno. The state government is not thinking on long term basis and it will hamper the growth of the state for many many years to come.
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Old 22nd August 2008, 22:55   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
I go to Kolkata every month almost and have many relatives and friends there.I read Kolkata newspapers - the more balanced ones and grasp what they have to say. Rarely anyone from the educated class supports the people who oppose the project just for the sake of opposing it.
Not sure how many of them would have agricultural land in Singur and would have been offered "less then desired" compensation by TATA.

Life of average people who make living out of farm lands is on the block. Not someone living in a city.

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Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
She accused the West Bengal government of having "an understanding with the Tatas," and reaffirmed her demand that "people who lost land have to be taken care of."
Off course she has political motive for saying this. But the message is valid.
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Old 22nd August 2008, 23:49   #56
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Spoke to my friend who is a Kolkattan. He is informing that the land allocated to Tata is a fertile land in which farmers grow the grains. With his version, I feel Mamata Banerjee is sure to be right as she is agitating for the people of Nandigram.
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Old 23rd August 2008, 01:20   #57
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I cannot begin to grasp how so many of you find so many words to justify theft.

Not just theft of a gold chain, or a packet of cash, but of the land from under people's feet.

To talk about the benefits is like saying that robbing a bank is ok, because the shops where the money is spent will benefit. It is an absolute nonsense.
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Old 23rd August 2008, 02:46   #58
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If tomorrow govt acquired your house in the city worth 2 crores, gave you 50lakhs for it(inflation adjusted what you paid for it), would you still say its all worth it?
All over India the story is same.
Govt aquires land for some value, and its given to private developers at that paltry sum
One year later they make 10x profits from that land.
So until land acquisition is done at the current market rates, this problem will never go away.
this talk of pulling out is like a disgruntled teenagers temper tantrum. A seasoned businessman should have known that whenever factories or industries are setup like this, there is always trouble.
This project should have been started at a more investment friendly place and on undisputed land.

If any industrialist wants land, buy it at current market rates. When everybody is reaping the profits of booming economy, why should farmers want to be left behind, that is the question.

Land acquisition etc., is against the principal of free market. When business can sell their goods for free market, why not farmers?
So let true free market remain, and everything will fall into place. If not for 1 lakh, then nano will sell for 1.2L, big deal!

Last edited by tsk1979 : 23rd August 2008 at 02:50.
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Old 23rd August 2008, 07:46   #59
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Well, a lot of the gap between current market value and the amount the govt pays is caused by the people themselves. Most Land deals involve only a fraction of the actual cost being quoted on the sale deed, and the rest of the money changes hands off the record.
The governments system of land valuation does seem reasonable(at least when we lost land due to road widening), but if it fails because everyone else undervalues their land to avoid taxes,Is it the governments fault?
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Old 23rd August 2008, 09:01   #60
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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
Well, a lot of the gap between current market value and the amount the govt pays is caused by the people themselves. Most Land deals involve only a fraction of the actual cost being quoted on the sale deed, and the rest of the money changes hands off the record.
The governments system of land valuation does seem reasonable(at least when we lost land due to road widening), but if it fails because everyone else undervalues their land to avoid taxes,Is it the governments fault?
Undervaluing is in the blood of indians. Evading tax too. Now you know our politicians why they also do it........in the blood Sad But TRUE
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