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Old 3rd October 2008, 20:06   #586
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Originally Posted by snaronikar View Post
What has Tata got to do with this? It is the WB govt who had decided to give that piece of land to tatas and if WB govt had informed at beginning itself, that they cannot provide this land, tatas would have surely gone to some other state (like Pune, Uttarkhand, maybe Dharwad) for Nano production.

But we need to see this in a broader perspective. There will be many a lost opportunities now for industralization in WB.
Yep i agree that WB govt screwed up badly.

Dont agree with loss of industrialization in WB. Its for individual companies to create a symbiotic relationship with local populace and this is true of any region in the world. Even in US, there are frequent suits against companies which harm the local area (health, ecosystem, water and air, population, economy) and local population usuallly wins the suits/cases.
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Old 3rd October 2008, 20:15   #587
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i agree with u, this issue is not new and happens in every state. but considering the present situation the farmers in singur loose more, not only the farmers who sold their land but an entire district i can say (atleast 50 kms surrounding the area). and add to that the state govts image.
No as a nation we lost out. We talk of democracy and rights...but when it comes to our benefit, we are ready to trample on others rights. And the whole country agrees.
No one stops to think of ppl who are being asked to make a sacrifice for the good of others.

How hard is it to pay proper compensation and market value? Cant Tatas pay Rs 1800 instead of Rs 18?
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Old 3rd October 2008, 20:20   #588
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see this is the problem of our country. No one addresses the issue but jumps into blame game.

i am sure Ratan tata could have handled the issue better than BB and MB.

Why not talk to the landowners and hear out their issues? Why not offer them lucrative compensation or share from factory's profits or take their land on lease or provide alternate land (equitably fertile)?
Your last parts of the post itself is the biggest example of the first part.

Let's understand the fact very clear that Mamata Banerjee itself is very much responsible and the real reason for Tatas pulling out of Singur. Anybody can try and hide their heads in the ground and act as if the whole world will follow suit. But, everybody ain't that dumb.

And why should Tata do all the work which the government and political bodies are supposed to do?
Have you ever gone to work by a company and you've invested in buying tables, chairs and files so that you can sit and work? I think that's all under the responsibility of that company to provide. If one decides to do that, well that's his choice. But can it be done forcefully?

Seems like many in our country will join MB in sharing a smoke of that special thingy. When will we learn?
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Old 3rd October 2008, 20:30   #589
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Your last parts of the post itself is the biggest example of the first part.

Let's understand the fact very clear that Mamata Banerjee itself is very much responsible and the real reason for Tatas pulling out of Singur. Anybody can try and hide their heads in the ground and act as if the whole world will follow suit. But, everybody ain't that dumb.

And why should Tata do all the work which the government and political bodies are supposed to do?
Have you ever gone to work by a company and you've invested in buying tables, chairs and files so that you can sit and work? I think that's all under the responsibility of that company to provide. If one decides to do that, well that's his choice. But can it be done forcefully?

Seems like many in our country will join MB in sharing a smoke of that special thingy. When will we learn?
I didnt understand your post completely, but wasnt Nano a private enterprise and tatas a private company? Why should govt buy land for them? Will WB govt do this for every company that wants to setup factory in WB? if thats the case, then i want to setup a small 1000 sft factory and am ready to pay 18000 rs to WB govt.

About working for company and buying tables, chairs....your comparison is flawed. here, tatas have not gone to work for WB. They are working for themselves. WB govt is just a facilitator. TATAS SHOULD HAVE NEGOTIATED WITH FARMERS DIRECTLY AND WOULD HAVE BEEN FAR MORE SUCCESSFULL.

ofcourse, WB had no business buying land for tatas but it got involved and screwed itself, tatas and entire district.
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Old 3rd October 2008, 20:32   #590
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see this is the problem of our country. No one addresses the issue but jumps into blame game. MB needed some votes and she jumped up and grabbed the opportunity. had BB handled the issue properly and created a win-win situation, he would have probably got the votes.

Tatas are probably pissed off at WB govt more than anything. i am sure Ratan tata could have handled the issue better than BB and MB.

Why not talk to the landowners and hear out their issues? Why not offer them lucrative compensation or share from factory's profits or take their land on lease or provide alternate land (equitably fertile)? [Mind you, our govt has done all of the above in different projects].
Do you make this statement based on any ground reality check? A few weeks back, there was a program on UTVi wherein an interview was done with the so called affected farmers. All those who were interviewed had said that they were given an amount of money which was atleast 2-3 times of what it should have been for their lands. Also, all those who had parted with their lands were in some way or the other employed with the Nano factory. I am not saying that you are wrong. All I am trying to potray is that there are always 2 sides to a coin. One man's medicine is another man's poison. In this debate, in the books of Mamta and those who listen to her, Mr. Ratan Tata is personally a villian, which should not have been the case.

The Nano is a dream for millions of Indians and if Mamta had her way, it would remain a dream forever.

Last edited by SumitB : 3rd October 2008 at 20:33.
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Old 3rd October 2008, 20:40   #591
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Do you make this statement based on any ground reality check? A few weeks back, there was a program on UTVi wherein an interview was done with the so called affected farmers. All those who were interviewed had said that they were given an amount of money which was atleast 2-3 times of what it should have been for their lands. Also, all those who had parted with their lands were in some way or the other employed with the Nano factory. I am not saying that you are wrong. All I am trying to potray is that there are always 2 sides to a coin. One man's medicine is another man's poison. In this debate, in the books of Mamta and those who listen to her, Mr. Ratan Tata is personally a villian, which should not have been the case.

The Nano is a dream for millions of Indians and if Mamta had her way, it would remain a dream forever.
1. About compensation - i dont think it was good enuf. Also, if some farmers had a different problem, that should have been addressed instead of acquiring the land forcefully.

2. MB is a politician and not about to become a great leader. She also had the opportunity to create a win-win situation for everyone, but she blew it up and divided the people irretrievably.

3. tatas have enuf money to buy land wherever they want and build the factory.
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Old 3rd October 2008, 20:41   #592
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Originally Posted by LLL View Post
However, does any poster even know the details of the issue?
Are you sure, you know them all?

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Are the locals of singur stupid enough to blindly follow mamta?
Are you sure all are behind Mamata? While 2000 refused to give the land, 22000 others agreed and took compensation for it.

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1. Many landowners did not agree to sell their land to tatas.
2. The land was acquired without the owners consent.
3. The land was brought at rates not agreeable to land owners.
Many? Actually they are in minority. The compensation given as repeatedly quoted by Media is quite huge. I don't see that sort of compensation even in Maharashtra where agriculture land rates are quite steep.

For those talking of market rates, the rates would hike sharply as soon as factory like this comes up. Let's see what market rates would be once Tatas exit the place.

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So WB govt acquires private property for a private business at subsidised rate.
If you are not aware, each and every state government in India has done that. Assumption being that, gains for masses will far outweigh losses for few. Those few would get compensated either with money or with land.

I am not sure if those farmers really gained anything by losing this project. Funny thing is, if such plant is set up in nearby district, most likely kids of these farmers would go and stay there for jobs rather than staying back and farming their fields.
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Old 3rd October 2008, 20:47   #593
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Is there an established way anywhere in India or elsewhere to determine the actual compensation that should be given to acquire agricultural land for setting up industry? We as humans can never be satisfied. We will always want more. This should be considered a case of greed and ear-filling.
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Old 3rd October 2008, 20:49   #594
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Originally Posted by LLL View Post
TATAS SHOULD HAVE NEGOTIATED WITH FARMERS DIRECTLY AND WOULD HAVE BEEN FAR MORE SUCCESSFULL.

ofcourse, WB had no business buying land for tatas but it got involved and screwed itself, tatas and entire district.
Never heard of car companies negotiating directly with the land owners. If they do these things, they have to have a separate department and spend mroe than a year's time for doing these things and a separate official to fight the cases which will be registered. It is the govt who facilitates this and buys the land and hands over the land to car manufacturer on lease. The same thing happened in case of TKM. Govt negotiated with the farmers and handed over the land to them on lease and they built the plant on that land. I'am dead sure that this will be the case in all the other states also. I have personally seen this very closely atleast in case of TKM.
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Old 3rd October 2008, 20:50   #595
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Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
Are you sure, you know them all?


Are you sure all are behind Mamata? While 2000 refused to give the land, 22000 others agreed and took compensation for it.

Many? Actually they are in minority. The compensation given as repeatedly quoted by Media is quite huge. I don't see that sort of compensation even in Maharashtra where agriculture land rates are quite steep.

For those talking of market rates, the rates would hike sharply as soon as factory like this comes up. Let's see what market rates would be once Tatas exit the place.


If you are not aware, each and every state government in India has done that. Assumption being that, gains for masses will far outweigh losses for few. Those few would get compensated either with money or with land.

I am not sure if those farmers really gained anything by losing this project. Funny thing is, if such plant is set up in nearby district, most likely kids of these farmers would go and stay there for jobs rather than staying back and farming their fields.
There is only 1 fact in your post and rest is all counter-questioning, deflection technique.

Care to provide a reference for your fact?
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Old 3rd October 2008, 20:54   #596
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Originally Posted by LLL View Post
1. About compensation - i dont think it was good enuf.
No offence - but that sounds like you lifted it straight out of some MB speech.
In fact you somewhat sound like her.
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Old 3rd October 2008, 20:57   #597
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Originally Posted by LLL View Post
There is only 1 fact in your post and rest is all counter-questioning, deflection technique.

Care to provide a reference for your fact?
I didn't do that since it is already posted on this thread earlier (land rates etc). And, you don't need to back up the fact that every state government has acquired lands for SEZs. Just recently, even after Singur drama, Maharashtra govt. offered land to Videocon. Reliance SEZ has taken land from Panvel, Pen etc.

Even before all this SEZ buzz, all MIDC (Maharashtra Industrial Dev. Corp) lands were actually private/government lands acquired by goverment for industry.

What more substance do you need?

Off topic: And if you wanted really substance in a reply, you should stop making vague statements like "Many are opposed to sell land", "compensation was not enough".
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Old 3rd October 2008, 20:58   #598
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Originally Posted by snaronikar View Post
Never heard of car companies negotiating directly with the land owners. If they do these things, they have to have a separate department and spend mroe than a year's time for doing these things and a separate official to fight the cases which will be registered. It is the govt who facilitates this and buys the land and hands over the land to car manufacturer on lease. The same thing happened in case of TKM. Govt negotiated with the farmers and handed over the land to them on lease and they built the plant on that land. I'am dead sure that this will be the case in all the other states also. I have personally seen this very closely atleast in case of TKM.
Since you closely followed TKM acquisition, do you want to do a good analysis for us of why there been no protests when govt brought land for TKM? But there are protests against land acquisition for reliance SEZ and Nano?
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Old 3rd October 2008, 21:01   #599
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mods: it official now that pull out is confirmed and here its time to change the title of the thread
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Old 3rd October 2008, 21:02   #600
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Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
No offence - but that sounds like you lifted it straight out of some MB speech.
In fact you somewhat sound like her.
very seriosuly...if my land costs 100 rs and someone gives me 300-400 rs, why wont i sell? Even if i am MB's brother? i can easily buy 3-4 times my original holding in the vicinity...isnt it?
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