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Old 23rd August 2008, 09:32   #61
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We can blame the people, the politicians or the businessmen but the reality is that each of them only has their own vested interest.

What industrialization has become nowadays is acquire land at cheap price, sell it to the builder or industrialist for a very high price and forget about the people.The government has started acting as a businessman.

I am not against the Tata nor supporting the TMC, but every picture has two faces:
1. Tata building a plant is good for the economy agreed.
2. Maybe the displaced people will get jobs, maybe not but a farmer is very reluctant to sell his land. Industrialization should be using mostly barren land and not fertile land. But the shortsightedness of everyone involved mixes up things.

Lets take an example. Here in Chandigarh, the administration takes land from people at Rs 27 lac per acre and sells it for crores . The market price is 30-40 crores per acre.

The common man feels left out from development and you know as a crowd everybody is an idiot, so these type of issues arise.

The Tatas should have never invested in Bengal. They should move out as this issue can never be resolved.They should have invested in Gujarat, Maharashtra or Tamil Nadu.
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Old 23rd August 2008, 10:02   #62
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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
The governments system of land valuation does seem reasonable(at least when we lost land due to road widening)
Here Govt does not have any reason to be involved. A Business House must deal with actual owners.

They are not getting this land to do public service or charity, they have to negotiate prices with owners.
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Old 23rd August 2008, 10:11   #63
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Here Govt does not have any reason to be involved. A Business House must deal with actual owners.

They are not getting this land to do public service or charity, they have to negotiate prices with owners.
But unless you get the government involved (appease, force, beg, borrow or steal) there is no way the Industrialist will be able to buy acres and acres of land. It is the Govt which fixes the rate and thus follows the chaos. Because as said earlier, no farmer would like to sell his land for Industrialization, Economic growth be damned!
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Old 23rd August 2008, 10:16   #64
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I believe Tata Motors went ahead with setting up the plant thinking the issues would be resolved amicably. May be Mamata Banerjee is looking to get political mileage out of the issue. If not, there is no reason for her to up the ante now, just before the impending launch of Nano. Afterall, it is neither government's not TMC's money which is at stake.

Bloody Politics !!!
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Old 23rd August 2008, 10:35   #65
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I believe Tata Motors went ahead with setting up the plant thinking the issues would be resolved amicably. May be Mamata Banerjee is looking to get political mileage out of the issue. If not, there is no reason for her to up the ante now, just before the impending launch of Nano. Afterall, it is neither government's not TMC's money which is at stake.

Bloody Politics !!!
Agree with you on this. Even the High Court has decided that there were no irragularities in Singur land aquisition.
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Old 23rd August 2008, 10:49   #66
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I think Tata should pull out while they can. This controversy isn't going to stop anytime soon. Once the factory gets built, the politicians are going to be extremely happy because then they can disrupt production and cause more damage to Tata. Besides, what if employees are threatened or God forbid something actually happens to an employee. How will Tata manage to find human resources to run their plant then?

Today Tata is in a position to pull out. Tomorrow they may end up in a position where they can neither pull out nor work smoothly.
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Old 23rd August 2008, 10:53   #67
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Very sad news indeed. Car Makers get a red carpet welcome in TN. VW (Some middle man it was) was bribed to set up factory in AP. Even the WB Govt is taking earnest efforts to bring the Tata factory there. Inspite of all this we are talking about stalling the "Worlds Cheapest Car" Project

I was searching for some articles on the Singur Issue and stumbled apon this,

AID Kolkata - Our journey

Very old one and I feel it's biased towards the Farmers interests but still it raises some questions -
Why buy fertile farm lands for industrialisation?
And that too presumably at cheaper rates?
Is there a dearth of un-fertile lands in India?

Well I shouldn't be commenting on this. Mr.TATA would have thought a lot before pouring money anyways

Last edited by kiku007 : 23rd August 2008 at 10:59.
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Old 23rd August 2008, 11:15   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simplyself View Post
I believe Tata Motors went ahead with setting up the plant thinking the issues would be resolved amicably. May be Mamata Banerjee is looking to get political mileage out of the issue. If not, there is no reason for her to up the ante now, just before the impending launch of Nano. Afterall, it is neither government's not TMC's money which is at stake.

Bloody Politics !!!
. Mamata is just harping in this issue. The General elections are around the corner and she will try maximum to get the mileage on this and sympathy of people. But at the same time, there should not be any ambiguity in dealings. Better is Tata appoint an arbitrator for this and settle the issues directly with the farmers.

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Originally Posted by amit View Post
I think Tata should pull out while they can. This controversy isn't going to stop anytime soon. Once the factory gets built, the politicians are going to be extremely happy because then they can disrupt production and cause more damage to Tata. Besides, what if employees are threatened or God forbid something actually happens to an employee. How will Tata manage to find human resources to run their plant then?

Today Tata is in a position to pull out. Tomorrow they may end up in a position where they can neither pull out nor work smoothly.
Tata in his speech y'day to tv channels, has clearly stated that he cannot build the factory if his people are not safe. Tomorrow, if some local guy beats up the employee, then it will be embrassing to govt and tata's as they had not choose another place for building Plant. The best way for the current situation is pull out of WB and set up the plant somewhere else.
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Old 23rd August 2008, 11:43   #69
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. Mamata is just harping in this issue. The General elections are around the corner and she will try maximum to get the mileage on this and sympathy of people. .
TATA a company recognized across the world and know for its fair practices, Should PULL out of KOLKATTA. This would be a learning lesson to all in Kolkatta in particular Mamata and the Labour Union.

Spoke to few friends at Kolkatta, and they say this is common here and its been done only to achieve political mileage. Was trying to get details regarding the problem concerned to that 400 acres of land that MB is protesting for. Yet to receive any conclusive info. But surely its only political.

I remember a situation in Bangalore when labours at TKML had gone on strike. Toyota shut down their plant and didn't pay any heed at all.
I hope TATA also take a strong stand and PULL out. They will surely have a huge loss as well as the NANO would be delayed.

But imagine if the Labours keep on going on strike and MB keep on pulling out stunts then the weight period for NANO would just keep going UP UP UP and AWAY. It would serve TATA better to shift before Launch. As the delay will be understood by prospective buyers.
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Old 23rd August 2008, 11:53   #70
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The cost of land is also factored in Nano's 1-lakh price tag.

If Tata pulls out of WB, unless they get land elsewhere in that same "cheap" price, Nano won't be a 1-lakh car.

That's why in spite of so much trouble, Tata is still unwilling to move out of WB.
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Old 23rd August 2008, 12:06   #71
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Pull out from WB and head over to TN. Or else, just start a factory in China.

The communist country is a better place to do business that a communist state. Please do not consider this post as political. I posted it merely to highlight the irony of it.
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Old 23rd August 2008, 12:26   #72
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I remember a situation in Bangalore when labours at TKML had gone on strike. Toyota shut down their plant and didn't pay any heed at all.
Yeah, I do remember those days. I was working in TKML at that time. We were executives and due to this strike, management asked us to come out volunatarily and work in the shop floor as the demand for Qualis was increasing and they were not able to keep up their demands. Surely, the tata's does not like this kind of situation wherein the executives has to work.

Last edited by snaronikar : 23rd August 2008 at 12:35.
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Old 23rd August 2008, 12:43   #73
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But unless you get the government involved (appease, force, beg, borrow or steal) there is no way the Industrialist will be able to buy acres and acres of land. It is the Govt which fixes the rate and thus follows the chaos. Because as said earlier, no farmer would like to sell his land for Industrialization, Economic growth be damned!
Its all hogwash. I personally know groups of people who are willing to sell 350 acres of land, and that too non barren prime land to a party who is willing to buy all.
But they will sell at the current market rates.
However the land acquisition route is much cheaper for industry as the initial cost of setting up factory goes down by 40%
Why would a businessman forgo that?
Same is the case with farmers. Why would they forgo that?

Now it has been mentioned that sale deeds are at a lower price. Well we are talking about many years old land. In many cases land prices rises 20X.
The original sale deed price has nothing to do with it.
Let there be open market bidding for the land.
On one hand we talk free market, liberalization etc., and on the other hand the govt is doing something which was done in Soviet Russia only.

Land acquisition has been done in Punjab too, but land was bought at current market rates(1 crore/acre) in case of a neighboring village of ours. Sure there were small protests etc., as usual,but they died down before they even got started, because everything was at market rates.
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Old 23rd August 2008, 13:11   #74
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TATA a company recognized across the world and know for its fair practices, Should PULL out of KOLKATTA. This would be a learning lesson to all in Kolkatta in particular Mamata and the Labour Union.
What matters is that that arrogant, greedy industry and arrogant, greedy politics learn the lesson.

There seems to be some sort of hero worship attitude that Mr Tata can do no wrong. Of course, I don't know him, although I can say that once was enough, and I'll not buy his product again, but I doubt that he is any angel among businessmen, who are interested, mainly in their own pockets.

Let those who think this is a good idea have their own homes and livelihoods stolen from them and be put on the street with bare minimum 'compensation'. Wake up guys, and ask, 'What if it was me?'. And remember not to fool yourselves; it is not for the community, it is not for India, it is to fill a few pockets and enlarge a few egos. This is the worst sort of capitalism and the worst kind of government,

Even if the compensation was sufficient (remember, a displaced farmer might never work again; he is won't be high on the list of favoured candidates for an engineering job) and the people happy, it seems to me criminal that good, fertile, profitable farm land is given for car building plants. Thousands of people in India are killing themselves because they cannot make money out of their land.
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Old 23rd August 2008, 14:01   #75
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They should have invested in Gujarat, Maharashtra or Tamil Nadu.
Yes, if not the Trinamul it will be commies or Congress. The dramas never end in W. Bengal. Ratan was penny wise pound foolish when he settled on WB.

Do not be surprised if the agitations are called off and the project goes ahead. Once the production starts and everyone from Tata and the suppliers is fully entrenched, watch out. What Ratan has 'saved' on land prices he'll more than make up for in election/political donations just to keep production running.

Last edited by SuperSyn : 23rd August 2008 at 14:03.
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