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Old 23rd August 2008, 14:09   #76
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
What matters is that that arrogant, greedy industry and arrogant, greedy politics learn the lesson.

There seems to be some sort of hero worship attitude that Mr Tata can do no wrong. Of course, I don't know him, although I can say that once was enough, and I'll not buy his product again, but I doubt that he is any angel among businessmen, who are interested, mainly in their own pockets.

Let those who think this is a good idea have their own homes and livelihoods stolen from them and be put on the street with bare minimum 'compensation'. Wake up guys, and ask, 'What if it was me?'. And remember not to fool yourselves; it is not for the community, it is not for India, it is to fill a few pockets and enlarge a few egos. This is the worst sort of capitalism and the worst kind of government,

Even if the compensation was sufficient (remember, a displaced farmer might never work again; he is won't be high on the list of favoured candidates for an engineering job) and the people happy, it seems to me criminal that good, fertile, profitable farm land is given for car building plants. Thousands of people in India are killing themselves because they cannot make money out of their land.
Dear sir,

You got to understand the political and economic history of this country before making sweeping statements. Farmers are killing themselves because of small and unviable land holdings. Not because industrialists are chasing them out. Small land holdings were a fallout of a stupid philosophy of earlier shortsighted governments. This entire nation is filled with small land holdings. With such land holdings farmers cannot invest in technology and compete with farmers of advanced countries. This brings in a spate of fertiliser subsidies and minimum support price for farm produce and not to forget subsidised interest on farm loans. All put together it became a mess similiar to the former Soviet Union.

If we had large farm holdings I am sure some large farmer would have definitely sold land to Mr. Tata. In the current scenario no Industrialist would set up a factory if he had to negotiate with 679 farmers to procure land. So the Government steps in and buys the land from the farmers and sells it to companies.

As far as the ethics of Tata businesses is concerned, Ratan Tata personally does not hold many shares in the companies. He does not even have children. 66% of the shareholding in the parent company of Tata Group is held by Tata Charities. Given his access to so much wealth I do not think he has a reason to be selfish and greedy. He is a very simple man and drives basic cars like Indica and Indigo. Drop into the nearest Landmark bookstore in Chennai and you can pick up one of those numerous books written on Tata businesses and their ethics and then please post your comments.

Last edited by sridhga : 23rd August 2008 at 14:20.
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Old 23rd August 2008, 14:23   #77
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I was watching a mid 80's Shashi Kapoor movie - Kalyug. not gonna get in the story of it, but there is sub plot where the unions are used to shut down a business rivals factory. I mean Fiat UNO had 3 Lac+ bookings for it, someone was going to lose a lot of business. this was early 1990's there are so many more instances. the basis is simple, the common man does not fight till proped up by some one who has much more at stake.It would have been very intresting if this project was NOt a tata venture. I can only imagine what Mr. Dhirubhai Ambani would have done. I would have loved him to solve the Kashmir issue.

wishful thinking :-)

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Old 23rd August 2008, 14:27   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSyn View Post
Do not be surprised if the agitations are called off and the project goes ahead. Once the production starts and everyone from Tata and the suppliers is fully entrenched, watch out. What Ratan has 'saved' on land prices he'll more than make up for in election/political donations just to keep production running.
If the agitations stop abruptly, then we can safely assume that huge amounts has been paid to the concerned political parties as the major problems are created by the political parties and not the farmers. Anything can happen in indian politics to get mileage and money.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sridhga View Post
You got to understand the political and economic history of this country before making sweeping statements. Farmers are killing themselves because of small and unviable land holdings. Not because industrialists are chasing them out. Small land holdings were a fallout of a stupid philosophy of earlier shortsighted governments. This entire nation is filled with small land holdings. With such land holdings farmers cannot invest in technology and compete with farmers of advanced countries. This brings in a spate of fertiliser subsidies and minimum support price for farm produce and not to forget subsidised interest on farm loans. All put together it became a mess similiar to the former Soviet Union.

If we had large farm holdings I am sure some large farmer would have definitely sold land to Mr. Tata. In the current scenario no Industrialist would set up a factory if he had to negotiate with 679 farmers to procure land. So the Government steps in and buys the land from the farmers and sells it to companies.

As far as the ethics of Tata businesses is concerned, Ratan Tata personally does not hold many shares in the companies. He does not even have children. 66% of the shareholding in the parent company of Tata Group is held by Tata Charities. Given his access to so much wealth I do not think he has a reason to be selfish and greedy. He is a very simple man and drives basic cars like Indica and Indigo. Drop into the nearest Landmark bookstore in Chennai and you can pick up one of those numerous books written on Tata businesses and their ethics and then please post your comments.
and second most of your statements.
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Old 23rd August 2008, 17:12   #79
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The matter was earlier even contested in Courts and if I remember correctly in mid-January-08, The Calcutta High Court has ruled that the land acquisition was legally valid.
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Old 23rd August 2008, 17:18   #80
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Originally Posted by Fountainheader View Post
But unless you get the government involved (appease, force, beg, borrow or steal) there is no way the Industrialist will be able to buy acres and acres of land. It is the Govt which fixes the rate and thus follows the chaos. Because as said earlier, no farmer would like to sell his land for Industrialization, Economic growth be damned!
Wrong.

1. Farmers in Pune themselves came forward to set up SEZ
2. Farmers in NCR are getting rich by selling their land
3. Farmers in Vidarbha (Maharashtra) would be more then willing to sell land if price is right

Article on SEZ set up by farmers themselves : Farmers to set up own SEZ near Pune -India-The Times of India

If Reliance can deal directly with Farmers, then why can't TATA ?
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Old 23rd August 2008, 18:27   #81
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It is more of a political gimmik then any thing else. Read this article on rediff.

Singur farmers don't want Tatas to leave

But people with their own agenda will still go ahead to disrupt work.

Trinamool to go ahead with Tata plant siege - National News – News – MSN India - News

Last edited by Car-Agey : 23rd August 2008 at 18:30.
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Old 23rd August 2008, 19:03   #82
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I'm from Kolkata but had to move from the city for better career prospects. My heart aches when I see the fed-up tate of Tata motors.

I feel that the question is not 'what's gonna happen to the Nano?' but 'what's gonna happen to Bengal?'
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About cars, bikes and everything nice : Tata may not produce Nano in Singur
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Old 23rd August 2008, 19:39   #83
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Another Example of Not In My Back Yard
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Old 23rd August 2008, 19:42   #84
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The situation is too complicated. I can't make out who is wrong or who is right. But to think that all this is happening in a state run by the communists is amusing. They are the ones who are always protesting. They are the ones who are always opposing. They claime to be the champions of poor people's cause.

I get very irritated whenever I hear communist leaders like A. Raja, Sitaram Yechuri, and Prakash Karat speak on TV. Today, when so many poor farmers are protesting in Singur and Nandigram, where are these guys ? Seems like Ms Mamatha Banerjee is giving them a dose of their own medicine.
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Old 23rd August 2008, 20:11   #85
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Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post
what I dont understand is, why did they go to WB? they could have set up in kerala if they were that desperate for trouble.
WB was chosen because of the port facility. Nano is a car that is going to be concurrently manufactured / assembled in more than one plant. They started at Singur hoping that they could utilize the area there. Also, looking at ports on the eastern side of India, one doesnt have much choice.

Chennai is way too crowded with HMIL and Ford group utilizing the ports almost completely. Am not too sure about the traffic at AP ports.

Heard that Nano is / will also be manufactured at Thailand! These guys are amazing at the way of working out costs.

Hail Tata
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Old 23rd August 2008, 20:26   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
What matters is that that arrogant, greedy industry and arrogant, greedy politics learn the lesson.

There seems to be some sort of hero worship attitude that Mr Tata can do no wrong.
Sir, he has accomplished what he had stated. You ought to know about the Indica Story and how they made it from a failure to a success.

Mr. Ratan Tata could definitely be worshipped when compared to the politicians.
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Old 23rd August 2008, 20:34   #87
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Well, the current impasse proves that history repeats itself. WB has had some of the worst politicians in the country. They belive in "equal distribution of poverty" ( they do not permit wealth creation to take place).

WB politicians, irrespective of their party affiliation, have let the people of WB down. This state was once the most developed state in India.Then the communists decimated industrial growth. Thins looked to be improving till about 2 years ago, then the currenr spate of unrest. Whether it be Nandigram, Singur, the frequent Bandhs and strikes, the message going out is loud and clear " Enter WB at your own risk".
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Old 23rd August 2008, 20:37   #88
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Just heard in the news (NDTV 24x7) that the Maharashtra CM, Vilasrao Deshmukh and the Orrisa CM, Navin Patnaik have said that Tata Motors is welcome to set up their Nano plant in their respective states. They'll be given a "red carpet welcome".
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Old 23rd August 2008, 20:43   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aditya View Post
Just heard in the news (NDTV 24x7) that the Maharashtra CM, Vilasrao Deshmukh and the Orrisa CM, Navin Patnaik have said that Tata Motors is welcome to set up their Nano plant in their respective states. They'll be given a "red carpet welcome".
I think it might be too late for that because there is a lot of sunk cost that cannot be recovered and of course time also. All they can do is suck it up and pay the money. $$$$ can solve pretty much any problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
There seems to be some sort of hero worship attitude that Mr Tata can do no wrong. Of course, I don't know him, although I can say that once was enough, and I'll not buy his product again, but I doubt that he is any angel among businessmen, who are interested, mainly in their own pockets.
The deal for land was brokered by the WB govt and promised to the TATAs in their greed to get him thru the door...I doubt if Ratan Tata had anything to do with the details. As far as being an angel...yes he is definetely an angel and a half.

Last edited by Mpower : 24th August 2008 at 20:16.
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Old 23rd August 2008, 20:49   #90
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So sad to see that a great step in Indian motoring history being treated like this.
Whoever be the culprits, and wrongdoers, they will never be easily forgiven.

Mamta is trying to gather some unwanted political mileage on this issue. Some lessons are hard to be unlearned. In this case, Mamta is resorting to the decades old lesson of politics; gather what you can without worrying anything about the losses of the other side. Be it national, individual or anything.
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