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View Poll Results: Which MJD powered Vehicle?
Indica Vista Quadrajet 204 36.96%
Palio MJD 135 24.46%
Swift VDi DDiS 197 35.69%
Other ( Fiat 500/splash/chevrolet etc ) 16 2.90%
Voters: 552. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 27th May 2009, 00:54   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gitartha View Post
hey mclaren1885, its simply not enough to "OWN" a car. Before calling it crappy, i think that first you should stop using spurious "dilli wala" spare parts, get it serviced atleast once every 10,000 km,clean the air filters, change the engine oil and the oil filters, charge the battery,fill those deflated tyres and last but not the least , STOP USING CHEAP ADULTERATED ROADSIDE FUEL !! .

As regards Getz CRDI , make no mistake, it is a road rocket, but only on a straight road. Put in some twisties and you will end up getting plastered on a bend. The verna is, as someone rightly put, a brick on wheels. A great engine spoilt by absolutely terrible vehicle dynamics. Put an iceberg in front of the "rocketing" Getz crdi, the Verna and the Titanic, and most likely all three will end up in the same place.

Yeah I agree with your post but just the half of it, that is the latter half. Yes Hyundai's verna has terrible road manners. Getz is average and not as bad as verna, its nuetral--the getz.

Now coming to the former part of your post, I really do not know whether you personally now Mclaren1885 or not, or you are just pulling his leg but in my humble opinion the guy deserves some respect. He has quite decent knowledge about cars in general and surely knows hell lot of things about the cars he own. His baleno had been one of the fastest tuned NA examples around and hence all my respect for him. So I least expect him to use 'dillli wala' parts or the likes.
Yeah, calling the engine crappy surely wasn't good but then I guess I am looking forward to his explanation regarding the same.

I really did not meant to offend you, nothing personal, I infact do not know Mclaren1885 personally but with that kind of accusations (even for fun) for a senior bhpian from a newbie was certainly not in a good taste.
Atleast you should had waited for his explanation.


Kindest regards.


edit- as for your statement "STOP USING CHEAP ADULTERATED ROADSIDE FUEL" ...cheap the fuel isn't even after price drops. Adulterated bit is fine but roadside? Sir, do care to explain since when do we have fuel stations inside shopping malls??

Last edited by YC.BALENO.CHD : 27th May 2009 at 01:05.
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Old 27th May 2009, 11:43   #287
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Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD View Post

I really did not meant to offend you, nothing personal, I infact do not know Mclaren1885 personally but with that kind of accusations (even for fun) for a senior bhpian from a newbie was certainly not in a good taste.
Atleast you should had waited for his explanation.


Kindest regards.


edit- as for your statement "STOP USING CHEAP ADULTERATED ROADSIDE FUEL" ...cheap the fuel isn't even after price drops. Adulterated bit is fine but roadside? Sir, do care to explain since when do we have fuel stations inside shopping malls??
sorry guys, those words were definately on a lighter vein, not meant to be offensive to anyone. the "crappy" word actually got to me.I really would like to apologise if it has hurt any ones sensibilities. The "roadside fuel" reference was for the stuff that you get in bottles while roaming in GOA ( i hope mclaren is having a great time there presently ) cheers !!
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Old 11th June 2009, 16:00   #288
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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
This is the first time that I am hearing someone say that 1.3 Multijet is crappy engine. Even the european press needs a reality check according to you?
Or maybe even the European press is totally biased towards Fiat like some of us here are?

Quote:
Its not as electric as the 1.5 CRDi in Getz but thats not the reason enough to say that its crappy.
I am sorry, I was too busy having fun up north and in Goa, so let me complete why I called it a "crappy" engine.

Quote:
The fact is they are not in the same price range... Getz is a lot more expensive.
The getz is probably a lakh more expensive than the swift D. Given that it comes with much better build quality and an engine that doesn't act up I would pay that lakh for peace of mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD View Post
Getz has a stonking diesel but then it lacks the sporty suspension setup of the swift.
Obviously not many people have driven a Getz with upgraded rubber? The day they do I would take their comments more seriously. Or kindly do PM djay99 and shyamhegde or any of the Bangy bhpains who have seen these Getz's impress and surprise quite a lot of us here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gitartha View Post
hey mclaren1885, its simply not enough to "OWN" a car. Before calling it crappy, i think that first you should stop using spurious "dilli wala" spare parts, get it serviced atleast once every 10,000 km,clean the air filters, change the engine oil and the oil filters, charge the battery,fill those deflated tyres and last but not the least , STOP USING CHEAP ADULTERATED ROADSIDE FUEL !! .
First come first let me clear out a bit of this confusion here. I am not one of those guys who "OWN a car for the heck of it". And no, I personally take care to make sure no "dilli wala" spare parts go into my car even if it means I have to tear down half the dealership I buy my cars from. I change oil once every 5k kms, clean my air filter before I venture out on every trip given that the engine at most times has a mind of its own. IIRC, I drive down nearly half across town to fill up from Shell or a reputed petrol pump which I can assure you sells the best fuel in town. So if we are done with commenting on my ownership bit, shall we move on to the actual case here?

Quote:
Now coming back to the topic, even though the MJT comes in Vista, Palio and Swift DDIS, the keen observer would notice that all these cars produce different peak power outputs at hellava different RPMs. This is bcoz the engine may be licenced from FIAT, but the tuning and ECG mapping is entirely the manufacturer's forte`.
I have a basic problem with the engine. And those who love driving (and not one of those, Oh I got to drive because I need to get from point A to B) should be mighty disappointed with the pathetic rev range these engines have. I shall explain in detail in my next post, so kindly have some patience.

Quote:
The sharp handling and nimble chassis of the swift is definately an added boon.
The swift in both guises has hardly any power, so it will surely handle a lot better because its hardly reaching a corner with good speeds. So the suspension sure does feel great. Once that car gets some added power, even the swift suspension is inadequate.

Quote:
As regards Getz CRDI , make no mistake, it is a road rocket, but only on a straight road. Put in some twisties and you will end up getting plastered on a bend.
I am sure there are plenty of members from Bangalore who can state otherwise. Some would even welcome you to come check out the road dynamics of the car with your own eyes on some of the twistiest highways in this side of the state. I am sure your opinion will be a lot different after that. What most people dont realize is, a good handling car in the hands of a bad driver will look outright dangerous. A good driver behind the wheel of a getz will give a complex to the better handling cars, namely the swift and palio. Not just in straight line. I have been a witness to this. At times, stereotype thinking just makes us believe things which in reality could be a lot different.
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Old 11th June 2009, 16:25   #289
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McL: Eagerly waiting for your next post
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Old 11th June 2009, 17:25   #290
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To begin with:

1. The engine has a pathetic rev range. Boost kicks in at around 2000 rpm and by 3000 rpm the engine only makes noise. A 1000 rpm of fun? One has to drive other engines (hyundai's, Fords, GM, M&M etc) and ask themselves if those engine have as short a rev range as this legendary unit from Fiat.

2. Has anyone tried driving that car over 120 kmph? I know there are 100's here who will jump up and say I have hit 160kmph and what not. But I am not talking about top end here. I am talking about the fact that one cannot do speeds of more than 120 consistently without the fear of the engine falling apart.

3. I have driven almost every car that has come with a crdi unit in the under 12L category. I am yet to come across another engine that has as much tappet clatter as this engine. At times, the clatter (most times louder than the knocking on my baleno engine and I can tell you my baleno would knock like crazy) just gets on my nerves. And no one at MUL seems to be doing anything about it.

4. Has anyone closely observed the way that engine behaves? One morning you wake up and find out that its just another Naturally Aspirated engine. You cannot feel the turbo kicking in at all. The next morning you will wonder what the hell is wrong with the engine, because it finally feels like a turbo car.

5. I suggest members read the swift thread where a lot of owners have been complaining of their engine behaving very underpowered and weird. I have noticed this from day 1 and no one seemed to take my initial reviews seriously until rippergeo and a couple of others started to notice this too. I recently drove a friends palio d and it felt just like I was driving the swift, albeit with a lot less rattling .

6. Several members have even complained of boost kicking in too late when compared to earlier. There is a really long thread on this. There are several other issues that I can't remember right now, shall add as I recollect.

I would love to compare the way the engine in the swift acts to say a crdi unit in the elantra. The elantra unit is very sensitive to fuel as well, but it doesn't show characteristics of spooling up late or acting like a NA engine from time to time but the swift engine does. The engine is such a bore on 4 lane roads, that I would rather be chauffered in that car than drive it at all.

All in all, given the current line up of cars in India I am very impressed with the Hyundai cars. I wish my dad had listened to me and bought a getz instead. Now after noticing all these problems with the swift, he too doesn't recommend the swift to any of his friends.

PS: This post is from an enthusiastic drivers perspective, who cares every second what feedback you get from each nook and corner of the car. If you are an ordinary person who drives a car to get from point A to B and not care much about anything else kindly just ignore my post.

PS 2 : I have noticed very similar behaviour from the palio too and when I compare these notes with my friend, he too agrees with almost all that I notice on my engine. So I am sure its the engine that behaves like this, though I haven't till date driven the Indica vista. Request owners to kindly keep an eye out for such erratic behaviour and if possible do give us a feedback on it.

I also notice here that many people post a lot of stuff after having driven the car just once or twice. But find some long term reviews quite ridiculous. My swift has done almost 27k kms out of which I have driven 24k odd. Given a chance, I would never drive the car. But I have no choice as my family would not sell it and end up loosing a lot of money and since its more economical to run than my baleno. If there is a reason for me to drive the swift, its either because dad can't drive long distances or I can't afford to use the Baleno as it returns 4kmpl. I wouldn't drive that car otherwise.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 11th June 2009 at 17:35.
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Old 11th June 2009, 18:08   #291
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Just a few things from my side after having followed the last few posts with interest:

1. I agree with you that the usable rev range in the Multijet engine is very small. Totally. At times, even the Alto seems to have much more range, because I drive both.

2. The idea of engine behaving differently on different days is something I have not noticed in the last 14 months of ownership, but maybe I am not as discerning as you are. You could be right and I respect your opinion.

3. How do you compare the turbo on Getz CRDi with that of the Swift VDi in terms of how it kicks in, at what RPMs and what usable rev range dos it have?

4. I am not brand fanatic and totally aware of the flaws of the Palios. My idea of buying the Palio Multijet was that it had the cheapest sticker price, most space (OK, maybe slightly less than Getz) and had the shortest waiting period.

Some people can afford an additional 1.2 lakh or Rs 2,000 per month or thereabouts for five years. Some can't. It's that simple.
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Old 11th June 2009, 18:18   #292
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i think mclarens posts are classic examples of what should be seen on
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/colle...our-car-8.html
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Old 12th June 2009, 09:47   #293
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well what ever said and done..
the swift is the best selling hatch today and the getz doesnt even sell 1% of what the swift does.even the indiaca vista and the palio mjd sell better than getz crdi.

the multijet engine is not an internationally acclaimed award winning engine for nothing.it gives you the best of both the worlds.fun to drive factor as well as good economy.this is coupled with a fine chassis.thats the reason why the multijet powerd cars are doing well all over the world and not just in india.

true that the getz is a dart and a rocket and a monster buttt paying 1.2 lacs more for that?? even t.d cars are not available.hyundai is trying to clear up stocks now by reducing the prices.clearly they want to concentrate on the i20 diesel and the upcoming i30.the days are numbered for getz crdi.
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Old 12th June 2009, 10:35   #294
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There is no diesel engine in this capacity range that offers similar performance and fuel efficiency.The CRDi in getz has the advantage of about 250 CC and it uses variable geometry turbocharging.Hence it has a performance advatage.And as a DDiS owner what i have to say is that, even thought the power band is only 1000rpms, 5th gear 3000rpm is nearly 130kph and that is what is expected of a small diesel engine. It has enough torque to be peppy in the city as well as a moderate highway cruiser.And by no means it is a crappy engine
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Old 12th June 2009, 11:09   #295
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It's surprising to see Vista leading Swift, but is it really getting translated to Sales? I can see on paper that Vista is a better VFM and absolute luxury in terms of space, but as someone had rightly put it here - it just reminds of teh same old Indica(b) and thus it's not a car one dreams of or aspires to buy. It may be a practical buy, but not an object of desire like Swift!

Maybe GP will change the game if they really put in an attractive interiors and overall package. I am almost 99% sure that Fiat would price it very competetively.
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Old 12th June 2009, 11:39   #296
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Originally Posted by shantyrocks View Post
the multijet engine is not an internationally acclaimed award winning engine for nothing.it gives you the best of both the worlds.fun to drive factor as well as good economy.
What you are saying is true. I would not call this engine as "crappy", but no point being blind to its flaws either. Let alone the Hyundais, if you test drive an Octavia or a Fiesta TDCi, you will understand how nice and linear they feel despite having FGTs. I think McLaren has just pointed some of the not-so-nice aspects of this engine, and we should respect his opinion as long as he is expressing it rationally.

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There is no diesel engine in this capacity range that offers similar performance and fuel efficiency.It has enough torque to be peppy in the city as well as a moderate highway cruiser.And by no means it is a crappy engine
And that is exactly why so many of these engines are getting sold (forget which car). And don't forget that it is one of the lightest diesel engines around and with ample grunt (75PS FGT and 85 PS VGT) for its 1248 cc.
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Old 12th June 2009, 12:34   #297
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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
4. Has anyone closely observed the way that engine behaves? One morning you wake up and find out that its just another Naturally Aspirated engine. You cannot feel the turbo kicking in at all. The next morning you will wonder what the hell is wrong with the engine, because it finally feels like a turbo car.
I have a 1.3 MultiJet and quiet agree with this! Some days, I'm taken aback by the turbo kick when I least expected it and other days, its missing when I want it!

However, the power delivery and torque remain fairly constant on all days. I have been trying to research and reason out why the 1.3 MultiJet behaves this way. The three symptoms I have noticed followed by their reasons are:

(1) Throttle Position: I also drive a Maruti Zen new model (not Estilo), which requires very little throttle to get going. So when I jump inside my Palio after driving the Zen, I naturally have a light foot and feel no turbo kick.

(2) Engine & Ambient Temperature: I don't mean what the temperature needle is showing. I mean how hot the engine is externally. After driving in B2B traffic for about an hour, you can feel the heat radiate out merely by walking around the bonnet. The turbo kick in such a situation is weak to non existent. I have tried the 'time test' test, where I switch off the car for about five minutes and have a smoke. When I'm done, the kick is back! Hot, sultry, and sunny days have a negative effect on the perceived turbo kick. So, all in all, IMO, the intake air temperature causes the engine to behave differently.

(3) Multi-hand Usage: My bro, who usually drives the Zen, also drives my Palio at times. I can feel a noticeable difference in the turbo kick after he has driven the car. Being a petrol driver, he has a light foot as compared to mine - causing the Palio's ECU to re-adjust to be more fuel efficient (read: sluggish) and almost like a N/A car. My inference here being that the turbo requires a moderate to heavy foot to cause a noticeable difference when it kicks in.

Cheers!
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Old 12th June 2009, 12:39   #298
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May be some of the issues of the MJD can be resolved by 'Pete'ing it!
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Old 12th June 2009, 13:55   #299
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good to read both the pros and cons of our unofficial national diesel engine.
@ Dueller do you think that changing the filter for more cooler intake would solve the problem? like the k&n filter, i think it would be good option!
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Old 12th June 2009, 18:42   #300
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i agree with dueller.
you need to have a heavy foot to feel the turbo kick.
driviing it with a soft foot wont give you any turbo kick.

btw dueller, you are posting after a long time or did i miss your posts?
some mad man had set your car on fire isnt it? hope its all fine now.
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