Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


View Poll Results: Which MJD powered Vehicle?
Indica Vista Quadrajet 204 36.96%
Palio MJD 135 24.46%
Swift VDi DDiS 197 35.69%
Other ( Fiat 500/splash/chevrolet etc ) 16 2.90%
Voters: 552. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 15th August 2009, 12:30   #361
Senior - BHPian
 
extreme_torque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,546
Thanked: 1,318 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Totally, totally agree, Maruti 800 for 10 years, Throughout india travelled including Ladakh Leh and when i sold it off it went for a whooping 60 thousand bucks.
Well it doesnt really matters for how long you had the car... what matters is how many kilometers you drove it.
extreme_torque is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2009, 12:32   #362
BANNED
 
mclaren1885's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !!
Posts: 4,821
Thanked: 28 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (10)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
my own uncle runs a tourism business & he has lots of indicas under service. but he keeps every car for 2-3 years & then sells off. reason? after a certain span, indicas give a lot of trouble & are more expensive to maintain.
Exactly my point. After a particular span, indica's are prone to a lot of issues. And I would take the advice of the mechs I know personally who work on these cars day in and day out than sit here and argue with a bunch of biased people who can't look beyond the bubble they are living in. I request you guys to drop by a good, competant local garage and ask around a few questions.

Btw, I do own a Swift Vdi, I HATE the car, specially the crappy engine. My frustrations are well documented in several threads on the forum. I prefer calling a spade a spade.

How many cab guys even realize they are having a loss of power? How many even know they have white smoke coming out of their exhausts? I have seen 100's of indica's belching out white smoke yet they keep driving. How many even notice that the engine is drinking oil? They are just driven and driven until they stop completely (something we discerning lot can't do). Reliability issues doesn't mean a car has to stop moving completely, so you can have reliability issues and yet continue to ignore it and keep driving. That doesn't take away the fact that there IS an issue.

I come from a slightly different school of thought. I have seen 100's of esteems being tortured on rally stages year after year. And I can tell you, a single rally season is like abusing a car for 5yrs. Yet those cars run for 3yrs without an engine rebuild. Mostly only suspension is changed. Why do you think the Indica never made it big on the rally scene? We all have seen pics of the flashy yellow indica that was supposed to hit the rally scene many many years ago. It was the reliability factor that kept them at bay.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 15th August 2009 at 12:40.
mclaren1885 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2009, 12:39   #363
Senior - BHPian
 
extreme_torque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,546
Thanked: 1,318 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
indica is popular in the taxi segment because it is cheap, spacious & fuel efficient, thats it. my own uncle runs a tourism business & he has lots of indicas under service. but he keeps every car for 2-3 years & then sells off. reason? after a certain span, indicas give a lot of trouble & are more expensive to maintain.
Do you have any idea how many kilometers Indica's rake up before they are 2-3 years old? Besides if they are so unreliable why do people keep on buying them? Just because its cheap? Going by that logic Tata Sumo shouldnt have been a failure when Qualis came. The mantra is reliable, cheap, fuel efficient in the same order.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
about which maruti car can take abuse... maruti 800! saying this from own experience.
Aha.... care to elaborate what abuse can the 800 take.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
if you think that i am against tata & hence saying this, i cant help it. you simply cannot take criticism for something you like. if its boring & irritating for you, simply avoid my post! no point in asking me to stop simply because you dont agree to my views.
No I DO think you are against Tata and your opinions are biased which dilute the value of the forum and thats what I care about... not you.
extreme_torque is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2009, 12:44   #364
Senior - BHPian
 
extreme_torque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,546
Thanked: 1,318 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
Exactly my point. After a particular span, indica's are prone to a lot of issues. And I would take the advice of the mechs I know personally who work on these cars day in and day out than sit here and argue with a bunch of biased people who can't look beyond the bubble they are living in. I request you guys to drop by a good, competant local garage and ask around a few questions.

Btw, I do own a Swift Vdi, I HATE the car, specially the crappy engine. My frustrations are well documented in several threads on the forum. I prefer calling a spade a spade.

How many cab guys even realize they are having a loss of power? How many even know they have white smoke coming out of their exhausts? I have seen 100's of indica's belching out white smoke yet they keep driving. How many even notice that the engine is drinking oil? They are just driven and driven until they stop completely (something we discerning lot can't do). Reliability issues doesn't mean a car has to stop moving completely, so you can have reliability issues and yet continue to ignore it and keep driving. That doesn't take away the fact that there IS an issue.

I come from a slightly different school of thought. I have seen 100's of esteems being tortured on rally stages year after year. And I can tell you, a single rally season is like abusing a car for 5yrs. Yet those cars run for 3yrs without an engine rebuild. Mostly only suspension is changed. Why do you think the Indica never made it big on the rally scene? We all have seen pics of the flashy yellow indica that was supposed to hit the rally scene many many years ago. It was the reliability factor that kept them at bay.
Brilliant post.... takes the cake.... any car who hasnt been in rallying isnt reliable which means more than 90% of the cars sold in India are unreliable. Anybody who told you to be yourself simply couldn't have given you worse advice.

Last edited by extreme_torque : 15th August 2009 at 12:47.
extreme_torque is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2009, 12:45   #365
Senior - BHPian
 
greenhorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: TN-14
Posts: 6,838
Thanked: 1,318 Times
Default

we've been through this entire debate before
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...arsh-tata.html (Are we too harsh on Tata?)

suggest we stick to comparing the above cars
Quote:
Why do you think the Indica never made it big on the rally scene? We all have seen pics of the flashy yellow indica that was supposed to hit the rally scene many many years ago. It was the reliability factor that kept them at bay.
I have a feeling it was more due to the overly thick sheet metal that tata uses on their cars. Makes the car pretty sturdy, though not as much as a palio. Good for a family car and deadly indian highways ( as i found out last week), but not too good for racing. I think its for the same reason the palio never made it to racing, despite having the most powerful engine around

Last edited by greenhorn : 15th August 2009 at 12:49.
greenhorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2009, 13:07   #366
BANNED
 
mclaren1885's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !!
Posts: 4,821
Thanked: 28 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (10)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Brilliant post.... takes the cake.... any car who hasnt been in rallying isnt reliable which means more than 90% of the cars sold in India are unreliable. Anybody who told you to be yourself simply couldn't have given you worse advice.
The point I am trying to make is about the abuse a car can take (since someone here said not a single car from MUL can take that kind of abuse). Since you were the first one to mention the word "abuse" the Indica's can take. You don't seem to be getting the point, I wont waste my time arguing with you.

@ Greenhorn: Its not just the thick metal. By that logic, the legendary OHC Vtec would not have been discontinued too from the INRC.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 15th August 2009 at 13:09.
mclaren1885 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2009, 16:40   #367
Senior - BHPian
 
raj_5004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Dubai/Mumbai
Posts: 5,078
Thanked: 2,031 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Do you have any idea how many kilometers Indica's rake up before they are 2-3 years old? Besides if they are so unreliable why do people keep on buying them? Just because its cheap? Going by that logic Tata Sumo shouldnt have been a failure when Qualis came. The mantra is reliable, cheap, fuel efficient in the same order.
in 2-3 years, they run for around 1 lakh kms. agreed. but so what? there are much better examples of cars more than 1.5 lakh kms running happily without any issues.
lets face it, indica is built CHEAP & does give a lot of issues. atleast i have faced many in my 2002 model indica. we had kept it for personal use. no rough treatment & all regular services on time. still we had to sell it in 2005. reason? you know it!

Quote:
Aha.... care to elaborate what abuse can the 800 take.
my 2002 model indica was sold in 2005 as said. we have a 1995 model 800, still with us. me, my brother & all my cousins learnt driving in it & so it has met with numerous shunts! apart from changing clutch plates, there is nothing wrong with the car.


Quote:
No I DO think you are against Tata and your opinions are biased which dilute the value of the forum and thats what I care about... not you.
why should i be against tata & be biased for maruti? i dont own a vista nor do i own a swift! anyways, if you still feel so, i cant help it. your choice.
raj_5004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2009, 17:30   #368
Senior - BHPian
 
DCEite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: NCR
Posts: 3,047
Thanked: 480 Times
Default

Quote:
Aha.... care to elaborate what abuse can the 800 take.
Don't ever say that, ET. 800, specially the pre-MPFI(carb) ones can take a LOT of abuse. And i am saying this from personal experience. Our 800 went on to 1lac kms, 10 yrs, been to various places in Rajasthan and Punjab, and guess what? We sold it to an independent dealer for 65k. Beat that!

Regarding the debate going on wrt Indica vs others, the issue is not, and never was, how many kms the car can take, but how many problems the car is prone to face, in that lifetime.

Last edited by DCEite : 15th August 2009 at 17:34.
DCEite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2009, 18:11   #369
Senior - BHPian
 
gaurav_chopra04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 1,256
Thanked: 534 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCEite View Post
Don't ever say that, ET. 800, specially the pre-MPFI(carb) ones can take a LOT of abuse. And i am saying this from personal experience. Our 800 went on to 1lac kms, 10 yrs, been to various places in Rajasthan and Punjab, and guess what? We sold it to an independent dealer for 65k. Beat that!
Dont know if My 800 can beat that but its a 2000 model 5 speed mpfi.. and has done 147,000 in 9 years... engine still doing good.. no suspention change.. just the front springs got changes at 120k..clutch got changed at 95k..rest still doing fine... though the car has mostly been driven in Delhi.. still can be sold for about 50k.
gaurav_chopra04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2009, 18:27   #370
BHPian
 
sanagg1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: HIMALYAS
Posts: 274
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

After nearly a span of 6-7 yrs Swift following =155
After one year of launch Vista following =169

Despite and Inspite of every thing said above regarding reliability et al.
cheers
sanagg1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2009, 18:56   #371
BHPian
 
discoverwild's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Coimbatore
Posts: 682
Thanked: 951 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
How many cab guys even realize they are having a loss of power? How many even know they have white smoke coming out of their exhausts? I have seen 100's of indica's belching out white smoke yet they keep driving. How many even notice that the engine is drinking oil? They are just driven and driven until they stop completely (something we discerning lot can't do). Reliability issues doesn't mean a car has to stop moving completely, so you can have reliability issues and yet continue to ignore it and keep driving. That doesn't take away the fact that there IS an issue.
That's the general problem with taxi driven Indicas. They are abused. So you abuse a car to no end, and expect it to survive forever?


Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
I come from a slightly different school of thought. I have seen 100's of esteems being tortured on rally stages year after year. And I can tell you, a single rally season is like abusing a car for 5yrs. Yet those cars run for 3yrs without an engine rebuild. Mostly only suspension is changed. Why do you think the Indica never made it big on the rally scene? We all have seen pics of the flashy yellow indica that was supposed to hit the rally scene many many years ago. It was the reliability factor that kept them at bay.
You conveniently forgot additional welds, body strengthening and roll bars.
discoverwild is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2009, 19:03   #372
BHPian
 
discoverwild's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Coimbatore
Posts: 682
Thanked: 951 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
my own uncle runs a tourism business & he has lots of indicas under service. but he keeps every car for 2-3 years & then sells off. reason? after a certain span, indicas give a lot of trouble & are more expensive to maintain.

about which maruti car can take abuse... maruti 800! saying this from own experience.

if you think that i am against tata & hence saying this, i cant help it. you simply cannot take criticism for something you like. if its boring & irritating for you, simply avoid my post! no point in asking me to stop simply because you dont agree to my views.
So why doesn't your uncle run M800 as taxis? Ask your uncle to be religious about oil and filter changes to the Indicas and he wouldn't have to replace them every 2-3 years. Also instruct his drivers not to ride the clutch.

Request to Mods: Please merge this with my earlier post as I am unable to do that due to some error.
discoverwild is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2009, 19:09   #373
BANNED
 
mclaren1885's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !!
Posts: 4,821
Thanked: 28 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (10)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by discoverwild View Post
You conveniently forgot additional welds, body strengthening and roll bars.
Roll cages, chassis strengthening comes standard with all INRC cars including the few Indica sports that were built. As for the allowed mods, unless you are running Group N+, one is allowed intake, exhaust, suspension mods. I am just talking about the parts that are replaced on a regular basis (suspension, lower arms, driveshafts owing to the excessive abuse they take on nearly non-existent roads). The point is if Indica's are so reliable, why was the plan to homologate them to the INRC dropped? They are cheap, handles brilliantly (by reports by some members here), reliable (we have members vouching here again). Don't you think it would be the perfect platform for rookies? Yet they all prefer esteems. There was a clear plan to introduce the Indica's, but the plan never saw the light. Some food for thought?

I haven't seen any try out a swift yet for the INRC. I hope they don't. Normal roads are enough to see that car disintegrate. Wonder what torture the driver will have to face listening to the rattles of the swift and see each part fall off .

Quote:
Originally Posted by discoverwild
So why doesn't your uncle run M800 as taxis?
Because the indicab is a lot more spacious, comfortable? Comes with a slightly more powerful engine and AC? So by your logic Amby's were the most reliable cars ever built in the world?

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 15th August 2009 at 19:12.
mclaren1885 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2009, 19:23   #374
BHPian
 
discoverwild's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Coimbatore
Posts: 682
Thanked: 951 Times
Default

So why do you want to compare a regular road-going car with that built for a rally and talk about reliability?

Did I mention Amby's anywhere? Also, if you didn't know the ambys were the first taxis. And the Indicab took its place because they were more reliable, hence cheaper to maintain as well.
discoverwild is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2009, 19:41   #375
BHPian
 
rrsteer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 144022
Posts: 940
Thanked: 893 Times
Default

I think we can and should call a spade a spade. I think Tata cars are more talented than similar products offered by the competition, but on an average they are not as reliable. My close friend has a Vista and my girl friend has a Swift. To me overall considering all the parameters Vista is a much better car than Swift.

But if I were a marginal buyer, probably I may end up buying the Swift because I may never know if the Vista sold to me was manufactured with proper quality control or in other words will it be a reliable car to own?
rrsteer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How come Swift DDiS and Indica Vista have such soft clutch? DCEite Technical Stuff 26 17th August 2015 01:32
Help Required Indica Vista Safire or Indica Vista TDI Logical Hatchbacks 63 30th October 2011 08:57
economy diesel duel: Maruti Ritz DDiS vs Suzuki Swift DDis vs Vista quadrajet aura. s_pphilip Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 25 29th October 2009 09:43


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 00:05.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks