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Old 26th August 2008, 16:07   #16
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Just in case anyone wants some perspective on small car margins, Businessweek reported that Renault makes US $400 in profits on each logan. Thats 20,000 rupees at 50 buck a dollar.

The logan sells at 4 lakh, the nano at 1.25 lakh.

You do the math whichever way you want!
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Old 26th August 2008, 16:17   #17
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I'am not sure that tata's will loose all the 1500 crores. The WB govt will be big looser and tatas will ask wb govt to compensate for the above. Obviously, they might have put a clause in their agreement with the Govt that if anything of this sort arises, then WB govt have to compensate the company to the full amount.

This might be the reason that tata is harping on pull out of WB. They, anyways, will not loose a huge chunk apart from few crores due to the investments in manpower for building the plant. The machineries can anyways be dismantled and assembled in somewhere else.
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Old 26th August 2008, 23:43   #18
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I am sure TATA is just trying to pressure the bengal government .
Its too late to pull out thats what i feel .
But again all these allegations about farm lands etc are doing harm to them.

God help those people who have purchased land in ear by areas at high price if TATA pullout WHICH I FIND TO BE A PLANNED STRATEGY TO PUT PRESSURE ON MAMATA JI .
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Old 27th August 2008, 01:04   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentsmith2 View Post
I'm not sure its entirely about money now. TCS makes enough cash to fund 10 tata motors[TTM]. Nano - I believe - is about building a brand more than anything else.
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Originally Posted by sujithnk View Post
I am sure TATA is just trying to pressure the bengal government .
Its too late to pull out thats what i feel .
But again all these allegations about farm lands etc are doing harm to them.

God help those people who have purchased land in ear by areas at high price if TATA pullout WHICH I FIND TO BE A PLANNED STRATEGY TO PUT PRESSURE ON MAMATA JI .
Both you guys don't understand what the Tata ethos is about. It isn't about making money, like the Ambanis, and it isn't about building a brand, like an Airtel. I'd be very surprised if TML made more than 5000 bucks, all said and done, on a single Nano. These people don't need to put pressure on a state government, or build a brand. Millions, hell, one billion people in India will trust a Tata name to enrich their lives in some way or another.
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Old 27th August 2008, 01:18   #20
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If I remember correctly it was stated somewhere that on each Nano TATA will earn Rs. 4,500/- only. So you'll can do the math regarding the land.

But mainly you'll are also forgetting something, the MDI Air Car of which TATA has bought a large stake in. This car will utilize most of the Manufacturing Machines and assembly lines of the Nano and will be of nearly same specifications. BUT the major difference is going to be that it will cost way way more than the Nano.

Therefore I don't think personally TATA will lose anything even if he opts to leave West Bengal.

Last edited by Mumbaiya : 27th August 2008 at 01:20.
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Old 27th August 2008, 11:17   #21
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Millions, hell, one billion people in India will trust a Tata name to enrich their lives in some way or another.
Pardon my crooked understanding of Kotler - but isn't that the whole meaning of a brand ? Airtel buys media spots, Tatas do it in a subtle bottom-up way.

Branding it seems has a negative connotation, for some reason.
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Old 27th August 2008, 13:25   #22
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@agentsmith: I think v1p3r's point is that Tatas *dont* have to do it - they're already the most trustworthy brand, have more money than most etc
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Old 27th August 2008, 19:14   #23
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@agentsmith: I think v1p3r's point is that Tatas *dont* have to do it - they're already the most trustworthy brand, have more money than most etc
If they really don't have to do it - why are they doing it ? So that the trust doesn't take a hit. My point was that the trust people have in Tata is a reflection of their brand - nothing more/less.

As about Tata's brand itself - I don't buy the fan-club level appreciation. Ratan Tata is god, no two views about it - but the tata-as-in-company brand - I'm not too sure.

Mouthshut reviews on Tata Indicom are as abusive as they get. I personally hate anything to do with Tata's internet initiative [Broadband reviews are horrible, I love Reliance Broadband though]. Having dealt with Tata dealers on Safari - I can tell you that the experience was horrible. Again, met a few Tata-sky digruntled customers. Dish though is worse.

I'm not smarter than a fifth grader :-) but I can tell you not many people share the same brand perception [trust, respect].

Tell me a Tata product we use every day that reflects our trust in Tata.
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Old 27th August 2008, 23:52   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentsmith2 View Post
If they really don't have to do it - why are they doing it ? So that the trust doesn't take a hit.
Because they are built that way. You don't really have to be honest, but you are anyway. It's about ethics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agentsmith2
Tell me a Tata product we use every day that reflects our trust in Tata.
It's not you and me, though I could start with Titan watches, progress to Tanishq jewelry, meander over to Tata Tea, and end with Tata salt. Whom you should really be asking are those people who put their money and life savings into Tata, like Tata truck drivers, and Indicab drivers.
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Old 28th August 2008, 01:06   #25
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This is turning out to be a Pro or Anti Tata thread (I am in the former camp btw).

Can we get back to the point of how many Nanos they need to sell to make decent return on capital?
I am a shareholder and am definitely interested in both the Tata brand value and Tata making money in the long term (if they dont make money, they cant fund those CSR initiatives can they?).
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Old 28th August 2008, 01:17   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prashanthyr View Post
This is turning out to be a Pro or Anti Tata thread (I am in the former camp btw).

Can we get back to the point of how many Nanos they need to sell to make decent return on capital?
I doubt anyone is actually anti-Tata. Anyway, to get back to the point, it will depend on whether or not they move out of Singur in the first place.
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Old 28th August 2008, 05:12   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prashanthyr View Post
This is turning out to be a Pro or Anti Tata thread (I am in the former camp btw).

Can we get back to the point of how many Nanos they need to sell to make decent return on capital?
I am not sure how many Nano's need to be built to make up for the 1500 Cr loss, but if I remember my high school economics lessons correctly, companies can claim a 25% depreciation in their infrastructure every year. This will save the company a lot of tax money. So the 1500cr would have already been written off as depreciation if it was purchased in 2004.
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Old 28th August 2008, 14:37   #28
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If Nano is good, affordable and efficient, I dont care about how many Nanos Tatas must sell.
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Old 28th August 2008, 14:49   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sujithnk View Post
I am sure TATA is just trying to pressure the bengal government .
Its too late to pull out thats what i feel .
But again all these allegations about farm lands etc are doing harm to them.

God help those people who have purchased land in ear by areas at high price if TATA pullout WHICH I FIND TO BE A PLANNED STRATEGY TO PUT PRESSURE ON MAMATA JI .
From what i have observed, Ratan Tata doesnt usually make false promises nor empty threats.

For those who think that this is just an empty threat, just hark back to the time when Tata were going to start their own private airline ( one of the first to do so ) in collaboration with Singapore airlines, they were constantly fingered by many departments etc and eventually simply said, that if people wanted them to go ahead they have to play straight else they would pull out. And that just what they did.

There was no rabble rousing etc. Remember he has only made this called after a couple of years of haranguing.. not just off the cuff.
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Old 28th August 2008, 15:25   #30
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Quote:
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Tell me a Tata product we use every day that reflects our trust in Tata.
Call me a Tata man if you will. I was fortunate enough to study at one of the world's best institutes located at Bangalore, referred to as Tata Institute even today. I worked for a Tata company for 10 years.

Both my personal watches are Titan. The other 3 (again Titan) were gifts from my previous employer - each with the Tata logo.

One of my home phones is a Tata Indicom connection. Same with one of my mobiles. Add the Plug2Surf Whiz to that list.

I have a Tata Sky service. I drive a Tata Indica. Insured with Tata-AIG. Serviced almost exclusively at Concorde (owned by Tata).

Add the usual Tata Coffee, salt, tea etc. to the package above.

My mother (~69) knows very little about automobiles - but she wants to buy the Nano when it comes out. Why? Because Tata has made a car that she can afford to buy on her own even after she's retired. She was more excited than I was on the day of its launch.

You will be amazed at the amount of respect and trust people have for the Tatas. You will also be surprised at the various businesses that Tata run in this country and the rest of the world.

I'm not promoting the brand. I don't need to. I just put my money where my trust is.
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