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Old 10th September 2008, 14:00   #166
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CBlazer : ... there are plenty of poor farmers who need some cushioning.
I wonder what these poor farmers drive ?

AFAIK, the poor farmer has his horse power, or rather - bull power already. He already gets free electricity to run his pumps. He cannot use a diesel powered pump, because those are only suitable to pump water from canal which itself is not allowed.

Anyway, that was going OT. Let's get back to the dual-pricing policy talk.
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Old 10th September 2008, 14:09   #167
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I think farmer should get bothered about tractor/tiller for diesels
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Old 10th September 2008, 14:15   #168
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Intresting.
Poor farmer. Buying Tractor Tiller.
Poor Farmer. has lots of land to justify buying a tractor/tiller.

Even if we consider the soft loans that are available for tillers, that 2L is still not a justifiable purchase.

p.s: before anyone gets ideas about my observations, pls note I am quite familiar with farming related stuff.
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Old 10th September 2008, 15:55   #169
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I will make it for ALL farmers. There needs to be more cushions on agri sector since many leave it and go. This we already have seen in the name of inflation. If Govt. is not going to continue the subsidy for farmers (let it be small/big, poor/rich) its going to die.

We need more farmers and for that we need govt. to take care of them. Even after giving so called free electricity, subsidy and all, still we are running short of farmers. So, id we remove those, then you can imagine.

Sorry for the OT.
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Old 10th September 2008, 16:01   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
Intresting.
Poor farmer. Buying Tractor Tiller.
Poor Farmer. has lots of land to justify buying a tractor/tiller.

Even if we consider the soft loans that are available for tillers, that 2L is still not a justifiable purchase.

p.s: before anyone gets ideas about my observations, pls note I am quite familiar with farming related stuff.

couldnt agree more
interacted on tractors with some farmers in cotton belt on punjab rajasthan borders and they were in really poor conditions treating bank loans as grants which are never to be paid back. people with such low land had tractors and top horse power ones, which the land never needed.
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Old 12th September 2008, 13:55   #171
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
it would otherwise cost, we do not respect it. Like someone mentioned about electricity charges. Next time you see a car idling for no obvious reason, check out the fuel used and 8 of 10 times, I can assure you that it would be diesel. I see this in our office complex daily - mostly Swift-D, Verna-D, Fiesta-D etc - be it driver or owner. A guy running petrol would switch off as soon as he is parked, while for the diesel guys, it is an afterthought. There is a link in this to the fact that he gets the fuel for close to 20bucks lesser per litre than petrol.

P.S. : Not implying that all diesel users waste fuel. But a trend I noticed.
What you noticed is right but a Diesel Guy idles not to waste fuel but idling for 30 sec to 1 min is required to keep the Turb lubricated and prevent from coking n turbo diesel engine . Remember if fuel is being wasted for this 1 min idling much more fuel is being saved as turbo is driven by exhaust gases whcih makes diesel engine more efficient as compared to petrol engine.

If anyone thinks Diesel is subsidiesd in Indian you are mistaken it is only being taxed less heavily , In india tax is on percantage of base price so
balooning base price means more windfall for finance ministory,
Mai Baap sarkar do all rona dhona for subsidy but never let public know
how much they are gaining before a subsidy is given.
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Old 12th September 2008, 14:03   #172
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What if the poor farmer increased the price of his goods just because his expenditure just increased what would you guys be telling?
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Old 12th September 2008, 14:26   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maddy42 View Post
What if the poor farmer increased the price of his goods just because his expenditure just increased what would you guys be telling?
Poor farmer can't increase prices. Infact if the middlemen had their way the poor farmer will starve to death.
Thats why govt fixed MSP, which is called Minimum support price.
Every year in Punjab govt does procurement in Mandis at MSP.
However 20-30% of grain likes rotting because the govt is slow and red tape ensures that lot of grain is left.
So upto 20% of the grain rots and gets destroyed, and about 10% is bought over by middlemen at prices half of MSP or even lower.


So what will happen if diesel subsidy is removed?
Farmers will block trains and widespread agitation?
Well for some time, but it won't last. Because irrigation is mostly electric nowadays, and farmers input cost rise won't be much.

The problem will be transport.
To take grain from Farm to Mandi in a truck, the cost will rise.
To transport from Mandi to Chakki will rise.

All kinds of transport costs will increase
5rs increase in diesel will make inflation go to 14-15%, with a 20rs increase expect inflation to go to 20-30%.
INR will fall to levels of 80rs to a dollar.

Infosys share will rise, while domestic shares will tumble.
Exporters will rejoice, and all over the world made in china may be replaced by made in India... But thats long term.

Considering the rampant mismanagement at govt level, removing subsidy will be 2-5 years of very tough and disastrous economic conditions which may pull sensex to 2000 levels.


So will govt increase diesel prices? No. Only if a political party wants to get suicidal, they will try that.

SO next best, increase for private users. Well that also won't happen. Govt may mull it, but it won't do it, instead measures to encourage petrol car sale will come.

So govt will say, People of India, please buy less efficient petrol cars which consume more fuel. This way we can hasten the exhausting of oil reserves of the world, and once oil is over we won't be dependent on middle east.
Its their long term (50 yr) plan to consume more fossil fuels and hasten global warming too so that puneites can get a beach, and high regions of bangalore can get view of the sea.


So expect this
1. Excise benefits to small cars go away, only petrol small cars to get excise benefits
2. Large diesel cars will get 30-50K you are big so you pay penalty
3. SUVs are favorite targets, so expect upto 1 Lakh more
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Old 12th September 2008, 15:52   #174
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What is the percentage of diesel consumed by cars/SUVs of the total diesel consumed?

And what is the percentage of petrol consumed by 2/3/4 wheelers of the total petrol consumed? ( There are gensets and such).

How heavily is diesel subsidized? Does higher price of petrol mean there is no subsidy on it?

What is the percentage of subsidy on diesel compared to total subsidy on petroleum products ( petrol, diesel, LPG, Kerosene)?

As a forumer said, increase in price of diesel has cascading effect on inflation and prices. So why doesnt government remove subsidy on petrol altogether?

See, we can always argue this way without ever understanding the crux of the issue. So I believe we should get all facts and then discuss whether any policy by government is in right earnest or not.

Much can be said about the MSP/Pricing policy for agri produce and the way the market yards work along with the processors of the crops but it will not be appropriate in this forum.

Last edited by simplyself : 12th September 2008 at 15:56.
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Old 14th September 2008, 11:01   #175
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When Oil Marketing Companies are reportedly losing Rs.13.50 per litre of diesel sold, then what is the need to hike the rates to the tune of Rs.22 per litre? Is this the case of reverse discrimination?

Also, why not make petrol subsidy-free too?
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Old 15th September 2008, 11:32   #176
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What about one of the biggest causes of fuel wastage - petrol, diesel, lpg, cng ? Guess ?

A: the city municipal corporations.

Yes, that's right. How often haven't we seen the sweepers doing their work on arterial roads, during morning peak hours ? They block about a lane's width, causing a bottle-neck for that 3 hours where every single vehicle passing that way is going to suffer. From the end of that mile-long line-up, to the point he passes that sweeper.

Or when work's being done on the roads - construction material piled up by the sides & another lane width of space wasted.

Avoidable ? You bet.
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Old 16th September 2008, 12:49   #177
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We will keep cribbing about these wastes and do you think people are going to stop wasting fuel ?
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Old 16th September 2008, 13:29   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26
What you noticed is right but a Diesel Guy idles not to waste fuel but idling for 30 sec to 1 min is required to keep the Turb lubricated and prevent from coking n turbo diesel engine
I understand the need to idle for TC cars. But I was not mentioning a 30-60sec idling - more like minutes of idling. No turbo needs 5-10 mins of idling AFAIK.
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Old 16th September 2008, 15:48   #179
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This dual pricing policy, if implemented is doomed
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Old 16th September 2008, 19:29   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
I understand the need to idle for TC cars. But I was not mentioning a 30-60sec idling - more like minutes of idling. No turbo needs 5-10 mins of idling AFAIK.
All these idling before switching off or warming up before starting in the cold morining are all hyped up. Fiat's official website itself mentions that engines and related parts are designed to take care of cold start and move immediately.
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