Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 5th September 2008, 17:32   #91
Senior - BHPian
 
suman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 4,589
Thanked: 257 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
"If you want to own a car you should be prepared to pay up to run it! If you cant dont buy a car/scooter/bike/whatever... use public transport or bicycyle."
I heartily agree with this - if you buy a petrol car, be prepared to pay for the cost of running it. Similarly for two wheelers. And diesel cars.

And don't crib simply because two wheelers don't come with a diesel option - think of the mileage advantage that two wheelers enjoy
suman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th September 2008, 17:46   #92
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 218
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Why now ? When Oil Touched 150$ petrol prices went up Rupee 7-/ now that prices are back to somewhat sane levels why isnt the petrol price going down to what they were??
Gregory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th September 2008, 17:48   #93
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: BLR
Posts: 2,222
Thanked: 11 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocG View Post
Diesel is also more polluting
More polluting than ?
s0uljah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th September 2008, 18:17   #94
Senior - BHPian
 
harry10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Faridabad/Delhi
Posts: 2,226
Thanked: 578 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
"If you want to own a car you should be prepared to pay up to run it! If you cant dont buy a car/scooter/bike/whatever... use public transport or bicycyle." This is what the govt should tell all consumers of oil! Its not like govt is sitting on a kuber ka khazana (endless pot of money) and they can keep absorbing losses forever.
What you are missing is that Diesel vehicles be it Skoda's or Mercs are expensive then their counterparts.
So in real life scenario does not makes much diff to pocket if you buy a petrol vehicle and pay more for petrol as petrol vehicle is also cheaper than the diesel one.
In the end they will come almost same priced for you but as consumers we just believe because diesel is cheaper lets buy a diesel car.
I must add diesel vehicle is actually beneficial for people who have running of somewhere around 100-200 km a day. Just my opinion

@ Greg - Because as per Gov Oil companies are still losing money so no reduction in prices. Guess they will always lose money AS PER GOV and no reduction will be done ever no matter how much price of Crude comes down!

Last edited by harry10 : 5th September 2008 at 18:19.
harry10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th September 2008, 18:22   #95
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,229
Thanked: 416 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry10 View Post
What you are missing is that Diesel vehicles be it Skoda's or Mercs are expensive then their counterparts.
So in real life scenario does not makes much diff to pocket if you buy a petrol vehicle and pay more for petrol as petrol vehicle is also cheaper than the diesel one.
In the end they will come almost same priced for you but as consumers we just believe because diesel is cheaper lets buy a diesel car.
I must add diesel vehicle is actually beneficial for people who have running of somewhere around 100-200 km a day. Just my opinion

@ Greg - Because as per Gov Oil companies are still losing money so no reduction in prices. Guess they will always lose money AS PER GOV and no reduction will be done ever no matter how much price of Crude comes down!
You are right that petrol vehicles are chaper than their diesel equivalents. But thats not government's problem!!! Why should they bother themselves with whether people are buying cheaper or expensive cars. The discussion here is about fuel prices, not car prices. The question is why should diesel that is used by cars be cheaper (or subsidised?)
joslicx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th September 2008, 18:25   #96
Senior - BHPian
 
alpha1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: P00NA
Posts: 1,625
Thanked: 965 Times
Default

Harry Dude, do we even have diesel Maruti 800 or Alto?

Our point is that on the lower price end - check what is the ratio of diesel to petrol users (and usage also).
And on the higher price end do the same.

Except Indica, all others in budget/economy models are petrol.
Is that the same in cars above and around 10 Lacs?
alpha1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th September 2008, 18:51   #97
Senior - BHPian
 
harry10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Faridabad/Delhi
Posts: 2,226
Thanked: 578 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
You are right that petrol vehicles are chaper than their diesel equivalents. But thats not government's problem!!! Why should they bother themselves with whether people are buying cheaper or expensive cars. The discussion here is about fuel prices, not car prices. The question is why should diesel that is used by cars be cheaper (or subsidised?)
I do agree the discussion is about fuel price and not the car price so in that respect itself why people have got issues if Diesel has subsidies? Who is stopping anyone to buy a diesel car than a petrol?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
Harry Dude, do we even have diesel Maruti 800 or Alto?

Our point is that on the lower price end - check what is the ratio of diesel to petrol users (and usage also).
And on the higher price end do the same.

Except Indica, all others in budget/economy models are petrol.
Is that the same in cars above and around 10 Lacs?
I do agree with your point to some extent. IMO both the diesel cars and petrol cars should be of same prices and then sell diesel and petrol at same rate and let the consumer which car he wants to buy then.(Most will buy petrol car).
Anyways this rule will be really hard to implement honsetly!
harry10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th September 2008, 19:31   #98
Distinguished - BHPian
 
supremeBaleno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Weekdays@Chennai, Weekends@Kerala
Posts: 5,164
Thanked: 1,635 Times
Default

Like many others already mentioned, the dual pricing thing is just going to lead to a big scam, corruption, black marketing etc. Only solution is to make fuel prices (petrol, diesel, lpg etc) market linked, letting the market arrive at the right price.

But this would lead to inflation and prices of each & everything would increase and whichever party in power takes this decision (if at all they do, chances for which are remote), they can be assured of being in the opposition for a long time. So, no one will bell the cat.

There are atleast 2 dimensions to this issue :
1) If a product costs Rs.x to produce, selling it at lower than that, is bad economics and will surely backfire one day.

2) If we get something cheap or at less than what it would otherwise cost, we do not respect it. Like someone mentioned about electricity charges. Next time you see a car idling for no obvious reason, check out the fuel used and 8 of 10 times, I can assure you that it would be diesel. I see this in our office complex daily - mostly Swift-D, Verna-D, Fiesta-D etc - be it driver or owner. A guy running petrol would switch off as soon as he is parked, while for the diesel guys, it is an afterthought. There is a link in this to the fact that he gets the fuel for close to 20bucks lesser per litre than petrol.

P.S. : Not implying that all diesel users waste fuel. But a trend I noticed.
supremeBaleno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th September 2008, 19:44   #99
BHPian
 
Glass's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: MegaBHPian* at Hyderabad
Posts: 252
Thanked: 12 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
It simply doesnt make sense to see car owners who are rich enough (rich enf to afford the likes of Mercs and Skodas) simply enjoying cheaper fuel at the expense of govt (which means at the expense of tax payers like me and you as govt makes all its money from us only)
No, I am a poor car owner running a diesel because I am poor to run a petrol. I am still repaying my loan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
If you want to own a car you should be prepared to pay up to run it! If you cant dont buy a car/scooter/bike/whatever... use public transport or bicycyle.
Show me a usable public transport and I will cover my car forever at home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
This is what the govt should tell all consumers of oil! Its not like govt is sitting on a kuber ka khazana (endless pot of money) and they can keep absorbing losses forever.
Actually I think Govt. believes I have a kuber ka khazana.
They tax me a profession tax, then an income tax, then a surcharge, then an educational cess on what I earn.
Then they charge me excise on my car, sales tax, other taxes, registration, life tax etc. I pay service tax even on a dent I get repaired.
Then I pay the taxes and duties on the fuel I buy...
That makes me really poor. Why not end all these taxes and then sell the fuel at international market rates?

Last edited by Glass : 5th September 2008 at 19:46.
Glass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th September 2008, 20:00   #100
Senior - BHPian
 
harry10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Faridabad/Delhi
Posts: 2,226
Thanked: 578 Times
Default

@ Glass - Don't worry Gov will rip off your clothes also very soon with the introduction of few more taxes
harry10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th September 2008, 20:29   #101
Senior - BHPian
 
nitinralli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Delhi
Posts: 1,257
Thanked: 634 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass View Post
No, I am a poor car owner running a diesel because I am poor to run a petrol. I am still repaying my loan.


Show me a usable public transport and I will cover my car forever at home.

Actually I think Govt. believes I have a kuber ka khazana.
They tax me a profession tax, then an income tax, then a surcharge, then an educational cess on what I earn.
Then they charge me excise on my car, sales tax, other taxes, registration, life tax etc. I pay service tax even on a dent I get repaired.
Then I pay the taxes and duties on the fuel I buy...
That makes me really poor. Why not end all these taxes and then sell the fuel at international market rates?
I totally agree with what all you said. Also we do pay premium for the diesal cars compared to there petrol ones....so why pay extra for the fuel.
nitinralli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th September 2008, 22:31   #102
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,229
Thanked: 416 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass View Post
No, I am a poor car owner running a diesel because I am poor to run a petrol. I am still repaying my loan.


Show me a usable public transport and I will cover my car forever at home.

Actually I think Govt. believes I have a kuber ka khazana.
They tax me a profession tax, then an income tax, then a surcharge, then an educational cess on what I earn.
Then they charge me excise on my car, sales tax, other taxes, registration, life tax etc. I pay service tax even on a dent I get repaired.
Then I pay the taxes and duties on the fuel I buy...
That makes me really poor. Why not end all these taxes and then sell the fuel at international market rates?
Seriously so many problems!!! Why dont you leave India then No more sales tax, other tax, reg tax, income tax, pro tax etc heheh
joslicx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th September 2008, 22:42   #103
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,229
Thanked: 416 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry10 View Post
I do agree the discussion is about fuel price and not the car price so in that respect itself why people have got issues if Diesel has subsidies? Who is stopping anyone to buy a diesel car than a petrol?



I do agree with your point to some extent. IMO both the diesel cars and petrol cars should be of same prices and then sell diesel and petrol at same rate and let the consumer which car he wants to buy then.(Most will buy petrol car).
Anyways this rule will be really hard to implement honsetly!
See prices of cars are determined by car manufacturers and not govt. what you can say is let both petrol and diesel cars have same registration tax. govt cannot have any other control on pricing. in the end there is a lot of difference in engines (technology etc) so there will be some price difference. I believe right now diesels attract more reg. tax as diesels are seen as more polluting (might or might not be true) and this is a govt way of trying to discourage people to go for diesels. both diesels and petrols have some adv and some disadv. in the end its for end user to decide what he/she wants.
The only problem right now is that people go for diesels (9/10 people) coz it runs on cheaper fuel (cheaper than petrol as it is heavily subsidised). Also in some cases (read most luxury cars) only the diesel is available now!!! On the other hand true mass vehicles (most small cars and 2-wheelers) run on the more expansive fuel. Thats the irony of the situation!!!
joslicx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th September 2008, 22:44   #104
BHPian
 
Glass's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: MegaBHPian* at Hyderabad
Posts: 252
Thanked: 12 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
Seriously so many problems!!! Why dont you leave India then No more sales tax, other tax, reg tax, income tax, pro tax etc heheh
Well, there are user charges at air ports. And even when I manage to get a Re. 1 air ticket to get abroad, there are major taxes that are making flying unaffordable.
cheers:
Glass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th September 2008, 23:06   #105
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NA
Posts: 769
Thanked: 49 Times
Default

Being a diesel engine fan, I wish diesel was not subsidized. If diesel is not subsized, then the cost of diesel cars could be cheaper or same as the petrol cars as in some countries. That would have made my purchase of diesel car more meaningful as I don't have to "spend more money to recover extra cost in car" as many people suggest.

But it is not going to happen as people have pointed out here.
opendro is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Diesel Hatch - Considering the New Skoda Fabia Diesel 1.2 TDI kunaalsaigal Hatchbacks 34 1st June 2011 18:31
need help for a seriously confused mind swift or ascent gle rohits Hatchbacks 19 14th June 2007 11:50
Its Official Now: Manufacturers are taking forums seriously Joz The Indian Car Scene 30 23rd May 2007 21:42
Top Gear presenter Richard Hammond seriously hurt rahul_intlad Shifting gears 1 21st September 2006 19:54


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 18:23.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks