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Old 4th September 2008, 21:25   #31
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yes, the jack issue has been solved in the mHawk. that was the first thing my driver checked after the problems he faced with out old turbo 2.6!
as with ramkya, even i have a huge respect for mahindra. i feel it makes some of the best and reliable INDIAN (please dont compare it with toyota now!) SUVs. in my 6 years of ownership, except some blown fuses and a fuel pump & AC service, i had absolutely no problems with the vehicle. so i dont think there is any reason to worry in the new AT scorpio. yes, but in case something goes wrong, the service is not that good. though the service guys try their level best to impress us, its ultimately their work that matters which is just average!

btw ramkya, mahindra pays more than GM, tata and even ford!

@ bigman: yes, i do feel mahindra listens to customers. an example is, many had problems with the old vents of the scorpio. infact even i had dropped a suggestion that it should be converted back to the vertical vents. my friend who works in the scorpio plant had told me that they have received a lot of complaints regarding this and their engineers were advised to solve this problem. i was not aware of this but whwn i got my new mHawk, it was with vertival vents! same goes for the lack of rear legroom for which mahindra introduced sliding middle row seats way back. so i do think mahindra does appreciate customer feedback.

Last edited by raj_5004 : 4th September 2008 at 21:31.
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Old 4th September 2008, 23:17   #32
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
yes, the jack issue has been solved in the mHawk. that was the first thing my driver checked after the problems he faced with out old turbo 2.6!
..........................

btw ramkya, mahindra pays more than GM, tata and even ford!

.
About the jack, tnx for authentic feedback.

About the pay: service Advisers are paid by the dealer, not employed by M&M; they are paid lesser than other dealers; big problem I heard, M&M have advised the dealers like Punjab Automobiles to address this issue. Especially those who have a network state-wise are bad. Heard it from the horse's mouth

Well.. the direct M&M employees? I don't know, I'd trust you if you say so.

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Old 4th September 2008, 23:40   #33
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Originally Posted by suman View Post
53k saving! Another 40k available on tap if you forego the roof A/C & the extended warranty. Looks pretty real to me
I dont think forgoing extended warranty is a good idea on a M&M or Tata product. That will be 10k very well spent.
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Old 5th September 2008, 01:04   #34
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
@ bigman: yes, i do feel mahindra listens to customers. an example is, many had problems with the old vents of the scorpio. infact even i had dropped a suggestion that it should be converted back to the vertical vents. my friend who works in the scorpio plant had told me that they have received a lot of complaints regarding this and their engineers were advised to solve this problem. i was not aware of this but whwn i got my new mHawk, it was with vertival vents! same goes for the lack of rear legroom for which mahindra introduced sliding middle row seats way back. so i do think mahindra does appreciate customer feedback.
How long did it take them to change the jacks ? Did they offer to replace the dodgy jacks they gave with all the earlier Scorpio ?

There is a known issue with water splashing on to the windscreen (which is apparently addressed in new cars). This is a safety flaw and old vehicles should have been given a free retrofit but could Mahindra be bothered....NO.

You can bet your bottom dollar this new AT will cause lots of problems.

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About the pay: service Advisers are paid by the dealer, not employed by M&M; they are paid lesser than other dealers; big problem I heard, M&M have advised the dealers like Punjab Automobiles to address this issue. Especially those who have a network state-wise are bad. Heard it from the horse's mouth
Is there such a thing as a factory trained mechanic at Mahindra dealers ? I remember when the CRDE came out and a villager bought one, a few weeks later it broke down and he called the local dealer. The dealer sent someone to the house with a computer (which was good service) but the poor chap did not have a clue to what he was doing. He had a quick play and said he could not fix it and the solution was a new ECU (or computer as he called it). So the car was towed to the dealer and had an ECU replaced. I think the same will happen with AT, the mechanics will not get the correct training and this will come back to bite Mahindra.
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Old 5th September 2008, 07:36   #35
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ramkya1 : .. went to Kenya 2 years back, saw almost 90% of the cars / suv's there were AT...
Ramki, any idea how many of these are produced locally, and tailored to local conditions ?

Even US will have about 90% AT vehicles.
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Mpower : ..should have better towing capacity and also better grade climbing ability due to the T/C.
T/C should not be new on this vehicle either. Why should these two features be better now ?
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Old 5th September 2008, 09:47   #36
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Ramki, any idea how many of these are produced locally, and tailored to local conditions ?

Even US will have about 90% AT vehicles.
Condor, NONE of those SUV's are produced locally, most were re-furbished / imported from Europe / Asia / Japan and do very well there, earth-shaking-low prices, a used Prado costs INR 10 L but importing one to India is difficult. Big car is a status symbol there, the SUV's are great to show in towns and to freak out on week-ends, they really paint the town red on weekends, when I went to Naivasha lake with colleagues, saw a rip-roaring-wild party which will put any Mumbai dance-bar / discotheque to shame.


Quote:
Is there such a thing as a factory trained mechanic at Mahindra dealers ? I remember when the CRDE came out and a villager bought one, a few weeks later it broke down and he called the local dealer. The dealer sent someone to the house with a computer (which was good service) but the poor chap did not have a clue to what he was doing. He had a quick play and said he could not fix it and the solution was a new ECU (or computer as he called it). So the car was towed to the dealer and had an ECU replaced. I think the same will happen with AT, the mechanics will not get the correct training and this will come back to bite Mahindra.
Bigman: They train all their Service Advisers / technical back up very well at Nasik, once in 3 moths and before a new car is launched, ask the ASC, they'd tell you. They have intensified it recently, it would take some time for it to be visible in villages. M&M has one of the best training cultures, 1000 M&M managers were put through an intensive Development programme, in 18 months in their Nasik Central Training facility, a great HR feat, the person who conceived it and delivered it is a close friend of mine.

What you're talking about this ECU / computer is a one-off incident, which is not the rule. Whatever you and I might say, the ultimate analysis of success is; no. of cars sold, customer satisfaction indices, turnover and profit and share-holder value. In all these M&M has improved steadily over the years; many other car manufacturers also have done the same.

===

Last edited by ramkya1 : 5th September 2008 at 09:51.
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Old 5th September 2008, 10:33   #37
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ramkya1 : Condor, NONE of those SUV's are produced locally ..
So the situation there is different than here. Kenya does not have a home-evolved automobile industry, & that they have not graduated from MT to AT. From what you say, most vehicles they have are hand-me-downs, some possibly salvaged etc.

Our scenario is different. While it can be argued that we took a long time to get going on the AT front, it is not really a negative point for us since ours is a cost conscious market.

Personally, I feel AT's are good in countries like US, UK, EU, Aus etc. With the driving conditions they have, one needs to be careful not to be the cause of an accident. Not having to change gears helps take a large part of the driving process out of the equation for the driver. The driver can focus on manouvering the car.

For our stop-and-go & crazy, hap-hazard traffic, I prefer a MT any day. The MT is also much better for my FE.
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Old 5th September 2008, 11:19   #38
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Originally Posted by condor View Post
For our stop-and-go & crazy, hap-hazard traffic, I prefer a MT any day.
Err.. Condor, shouldnt it be the other way round? AT would be ideal to stop-n-go traffic.
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Old 5th September 2008, 11:27   #39
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Condor, my comments in bold.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
So the situation there is different than here. Kenya does not have a home-evolved automobile industry, & that they have not graduated from MT to AT. From what you say, most vehicles they have are hand-me-downs, some possibly salvaged etc.

The used cars are pretty good, from what I saw and drove there. They are more disciplined then us, did not hear a single horn in 7 days!!!!

Personally, I feel AT's are good in countries like US, UK, EU, Aus etc. With the driving conditions they have, one needs to be careful not to be the cause of an accident. Not having to change gears helps take a large part of the driving process out of the equation for the driver. The driver can focus on manouvering the car.

AT's time will come, how can they ignore something like a gear indicator (its a piddly little thing compared to the technology of the AT) if they have to survive? The CAR PUNDIT'S are predicting AT as an emerging segment but yes, FE will be less. May not be for people like you and me; we like to feel and unleash the beast thro. the stick.

For our stop-and-go & crazy, hap-hazard traffic, I prefer a MT any day. The MT is also much better for my FE.

Exactly the reason for the emergence of the AT, people don't have to worry about the gears at least

Last edited by ramkya1 : 5th September 2008 at 11:30.
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Old 5th September 2008, 11:34   #40
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benbsb29 : Err.. Condor, shouldnt it be the other way round? AT would be ideal to stop-n-go traffic.
With our kind of traffic, FE on an AT will take a big hit. I prefer MT for our traffic conditions.

Smooth driving habits, & a well gear-ratio'ed car can help you use that fuel better. Prefer this over the convinience of the AT & it's higher fuel consumption.

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ramkya1 : They are more disciplined then us, did not hear a single horn in 7 days!!!!
Looks like, along with the cars, they imported driving style & discipline too .. !
Quote:
ramkya1 : AT's time will come, how can they ignore something like a gear indicator
More technology & convinience is a natural step. But like you say, it's not for you & me.
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ramkya1 : Exactly the reason for the emergence of the AT, people don't have to worry about the gears at least
More AT cars, more less fuel efficient cars (because of the AT) .. would make sense to not have too many AT's. I can always use that money to get some functional modifications that can make the car run better. Or even better ICE !

Last edited by condor : 5th September 2008 at 11:43.
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Old 5th September 2008, 13:01   #41
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Originally Posted by hrag View Post
Way to go Mahindra! Come on Tata, bring on those diesel automatics.
Yea, We are listening. Jus... hold on a minute please!

(In the backgound) hey, shyam call the LR guy Eddie in Warwickshire and tell him to look into his parts bin and check if he can spare some cheap ATs.

Yes saar it can be arranged. When do you want a test drive?
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Old 5th September 2008, 14:22   #42
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Kudo's to Mahindra for finalising rollout plans of the Scorpio AT. And a 6 speed at that! The AT was mated to the 2.2 common-rail for obvious reasons : its impending US launch. I am only afraid that they are going to overprice it (Mhawk memories) and thus, limit its potential of success.

I have said this before and will say this again : Indian driving conditions are most suitable to automatics. I am hoping Tata is listening somewhere (as also my old thread (The case for an Automatic Indica!)) and starts development work on an AT Indica / Indigo. Success guaranteed.

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Originally Posted by condor View Post
With our kind of traffic, FE on an AT will take a big hit. I prefer MT for our traffic conditions.
The point of an AT is ease of driving. If you want to extract the max FE out of our car, an AT is obviously not for you. So its not our driving conditions, but the FE mindset (partially) that has made us averse to ATs.
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Old 5th September 2008, 14:41   #43
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GTO : If you want to extract the max FE out of our car, an AT is obviously not for you.
Even in smoother traffic, AT's give return lesser FE figures than MT's. With our traffic, it is going to be noticeably bad.
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Old 5th September 2008, 14:43   #44
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Originally Posted by ramkya1 View Post
About the jack, tnx for authentic feedback.

About the pay: service Advisers are paid by the dealer, not employed by M&M; they are paid lesser than other dealers; big problem I heard, M&M have advised the dealers like Punjab Automobiles to address this issue. Especially those who have a network state-wise are bad. Heard it from the horse's mouth

Well.. the direct M&M employees? I don't know, I'd trust you if you say so.

=====
yes, the direct M&M employees are payed a very fat salary. i know this because i am pursuing automobile engineering.

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Originally Posted by bigman View Post
How long did it take them to change the jacks ? Did they offer to replace the dodgy jacks they gave with all the earlier Scorpio ?

There is a known issue with water splashing on to the windscreen (which is apparently addressed in new cars). This is a safety flaw and old vehicles should have been given a free retrofit but could Mahindra be bothered....NO.

You can bet your bottom dollar this new AT will cause lots of problems.
both the problems you mentioned were solved in subsequent models. isnt that customer feedback is all about??? and relative to which company are you comparing mahindra with? dont forget its our homegrown indian company. expecting it to reach upto toyota or honda level is foolish!
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Old 5th September 2008, 16:27   #45
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Originally Posted by sridhga View Post
Yea, We are listening. Jus... hold on a minute please!

(In the backgound) hey, shyam call the LR guy Eddie in Warwickshire and tell him to look into his parts bin and check if he can spare some cheap ATs.

Yes saar it can be arranged. When do you want a test drive?
Your predication may well come true, I am pretty sure the Tatas won't be sleeping on this.

Competition being a great leveler, they would go into overdrive to stay competitive and will try to match others stroke for stroke, from what we have seen in the past.

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