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Old 26th April 2011, 15:02   #1771
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Default Re: Fuel Price Thread

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Originally Posted by 2500cc View Post
Aren't the diesel motor owners already paying premium of 1+L to own them...
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Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
AFAIK, the premium is being paid to the car manufacturers for the technology/ engine. None of this goes to the fuel suppliers.
Yup, diesel engines are costlier as it needs a better engine and technology to offset the diesel characteristics.

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Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
It is only fair that all personal vehicles should pay market price for fuel. The question is how this segregation can be implemented for diesel vehicles without the risk of black marketing (in case separate pumps are opened for public utility vehicles using diesel). Of course, if diesel is sold to ALL vehicles at market price then this would push the inflation rate up further
I guess, one way could be to introduce some kind of sticker on the diesel vehicles from the manufacturer end so that it is differentiated from the subsidised category of vehicles and fuel for them can be billed at market rates, while subsidised category of vehicles can pay the subsidised rates.

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
^^ The only way is a one time levy when the car is purchased. Differential pricing of fuel will never work.
One time levy can only be offtrack and approximate solution. You will never know the amount of fuel these vehicles will use. Some will use more and some will use less. Why penalise the vehicles who would use less diesel on the basis of some thumb rule criteria.

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Originally Posted by 2500cc View Post
One idea I can think of this is, have all the private diesel motors to pay up some amount to the ministry of petroleum every year or once in 5yrs. Again how much should one pay depends on the size of the vehicle. If one fails to pay the money, concerned authorities may seize the vehicle.
What amount? on what basis?
Size of the vehicle would not be a fit eligibility. It has to be on the basis of every litre of diesel used IMO to completely compensate against the amount of fuel these diesel vehicles use.

Last edited by Fordmanchau : 26th April 2011 at 15:03.
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Old 26th April 2011, 15:11   #1772
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Default Re: Fuel Price Thread

Hi
There was a article in times of india regarding exporting diesel to pakistan from india. I am not against the idea, as i strongly believe the people should not suffer for the ideas of a few extremists. But, why the hell is the government requesting to supply pakistan while we are bleeding out of our purses to get our tank full. The reporter further confirms the request is denied as pakistan does not want to rely on india for its energy requirements which will tighten the noose around its neck.
Whatever the political motivation but the governement should stop bleeding the people to carry out their agenda. Cheers
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Old 26th April 2011, 15:14   #1773
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Default Re: Fuel Price Thread

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Originally Posted by Fordmanchau View Post
What amount? on what basis?
Size of the vehicle would not be a fit eligibility. It has to be on the basis of every litre of diesel used IMO to completely compensate against the amount of fuel these diesel vehicles use.
If it is based on the amount of diesel consumed. Then, I'll never go to bunk t o fill-up the fuel, rather i'll ask one of the truck driver to help me fill-up my tank. This will also lead to huge black market.

If it is based on the size of the vehicle the GOI can fix certain amount of money based on size and other parameters.

Got the point ?
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Old 26th April 2011, 15:14   #1774
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Default Re: Fuel Price Thread

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Originally Posted by Fordmanchau View Post
One time levy can only be offtrack and approximate solution. You will never know the amount of fuel these vehicles will use. Some will use more and some will use less. Why penalise the vehicles who would use less diesel on the basis of some thumb rule criteria.
Sometimes approximation is the best solution. BTW all cars pay the same road tax (OK, based on value), but some drive around a lot more than others, don't they?

Differential prizing is a sure shot way to malpractice.
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Old 26th April 2011, 15:32   #1775
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Default Re: Fuel Price Thread

When i Bought my car Petrol was 52 and diesel was around 36-38. I did all calculations and decided ROI for Petrol was better. I bought a Ford Fiesta Petrol for 7 lacs while diesel costed 8.2 lacs. Now all my calculations havce gone for a toss. Driving a diesel I could have broken even in 2-3 years as opposed to 5-6 years.

All new car buyers please rethink on the Diesel vs Petrol debate. Diesel if the winner all the way to the bank.
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Old 26th April 2011, 15:54   #1776
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Default Re: Fuel Price Thread

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Originally Posted by 2500cc View Post
If it is based on the amount of diesel consumed. Then, I'll never go to bunk t o fill-up the fuel, rather i'll ask one of the truck driver to help me fill-up my tank. This will also lead to huge black market.
Got the point ?
Yeah!!got it. Translation : "We Indians will do whatever it takes to save some bucks."
But then the truck driver would not do this for free and everybody would not have a truck driver as friend.
Agree, it will lead to malpractice.

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
BTW all cars pay the same road tax (OK, based on value), but some drive around a lot more than others, don't they?
This is not the correct comparison IMO. If you drive around more, you use more fuel, so pay up more. It should be as simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
Sometimes approximation is the best solution
Let's assume a hypothetical situation here for arriving at a approximate solution.
Average Life of Diesel engine : 150,000km(assumed, @ 15k kms for 10 years)
Average Fuel Efficiency : 15kmpl (assumed)
Incremental Cost of diesel = Rs. 20 per litre.(65-45=20,at par with Petrol)
Assuming the above situation if govt. charges a one time levy, any person buying a diesel would end paying Rs. 2 Lakhs extra on the car cost.
While this is not practical and will surely end up killing diesel car market but then anything less would be gross under recovery.
Like we petrol car owner's who pay less initially and then pay the market price for fuel, the same thing should be applied to diesel car buyers.
Government would have think about ways to plug the holes in the system to atleast reduce instances of malpractices.

Last edited by Fordmanchau : 26th April 2011 at 15:56.
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Old 26th April 2011, 15:54   #1777
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Default Re: Fuel Price Thread

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Originally Posted by himanshugoswami View Post
So a Swift (gen2) diesel or a figo titanium TDCI is on my radar now.
Himanshu, that's a wise decision. I would also recommend that you consider Fiesta TDCi as its a good VFM now considering you may get it for slightly higher price than a Figo with a boot to go!

Moreover, people with petrol cars usually think twice before making a long drive

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Originally Posted by Fordmanchau View Post
This does not make sense , more so when a guy with his 15lakh car comes to a bunk and fills cheap diesel.
May be government should look at collecting some surcharge levied on per litre of diesel sold from the diesel car owners who come to bunk for refuel and exempt buses, truck, tractors and other category of vehicles fit for subsidy.
According to you, a 15 lakh car coming to fill diesel does not make sense??? So you attribute only the fuel type of the engine and no other characteristics that make it a 15-lakh car? These expensive diesel engines are way more sophisticated than a 5 lakh petrol engine and has lot more technology and sophistication goes into it's making.

Besides, your forgetting that diesel engines buyers always pay 1+ Lakh premium rupees, so why isnt that accounted for in difference?

There will always be a huge difference between Diesel and Petrol prices in our country as we all know our basic commodities are transported using diesel run vehicles. Any hike to them will have a cascading affect on almost every product pricing including basic edible commodities.

Finally, if the petrol pricing is pinching, the simplest and wisest decision would be to shift to a diesel car instead of levying taxes to "individual diesel car" owners which even in wildest imagination cannot be implemented in real sense.

Btw, I own both a diesel and petrol car!
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Old 26th April 2011, 16:43   #1778
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Default Re: Fuel Price Thread

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Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
According to you, a 15 lakh car coming to fill diesel does not make sense??? So you attribute only the fuel type of the engine and no other characteristics that make it a 15-lakh car?
No, no!! you are getting me wrong here Pandeyji!!
I just meant that any diesel passenger car,be it of Rs, 5 lakhs, 15lakhs or even 1 crore and above and not falling under the category of vehicles eligibile for subsidy should pay the market price for the fuel.
I just used "15 lakh" as a generic example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
These expensive diesel engines are way more sophisticated than a 5 lakh petrol engine and has lot more technology and sophistication goes into it's making.
And hence, that is why diesel engines are costlier than the petrol engines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
Besides, your forgetting that diesel engines buyers always pay 1+ Lakh premium rupees, so why isnt that accounted for in difference?
This premium for diesel engine is because of their high technology and sophistication as you said above and in no way relates to the subsidy given on diesel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
There will always be a huge difference between Diesel and Petrol prices in our country as we all know our basic commodities are transported using diesel run vehicles. Any hike to them will have a cascading affect on almost every product pricing including basic edible commodities.
I just hope that talks of deregulating even the diesel prices materialises some day alongwith government finding a way to continue subsidising the priority sector. A start has been made by initiating cash subsidy directly to the receiver thus eliminating middlemen and ensuring that the subsidy fulfill it's purpose.
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Old 26th April 2011, 16:44   #1779
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Default Re: Fuel Price Thread

Now that carbon trading is coming into picture,and devloping countries will have to shell out big chunk of money to reduce/manage there carbon footprints, should petrol cars and bikes be charged extra for higher green house emmissions?
Petrol engines have 60-70% service life of that of a mordern diesel engine,diesel motors generally last longer.
Should petrol cars be taxed for creating more national waste and scrap.
I know metal scrap is recycled,but certainly not without Consuming energy!
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Old 26th April 2011, 16:50   #1780
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Default Re: Fuel Price Thread

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
if the tax that they recently implemented on diesel vehicles in Delhi/NCR were to be implemented elsewhere too, then this might be one way.
Sir, we at Bangalore are already paying 19% Road tax. And Diesel cars are less polluting than Petrol cars and will always give better FE, so why punish Diesel car owners?
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Old 26th April 2011, 16:54   #1781
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Default Re: Fuel Price Thread

The diesel subsidy will become unmanageable in the near future. Just wait till the diesel nanos and similar cars hit the road. Diesel cars will outnumber petrol ones so much it will become impossible to cross subsidize them by hiking petrol rates.

Just think - when you fill your Hero Honda at the bunk, you are subsidizing the fuel of your big boss who may be filling diesel for his Merc in the same bunk right next to you!

@asdon
It is not a question of punishing the diesel car owners, but that of not pampering them anymore!

Last edited by Gansan : 26th April 2011 at 17:12.
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Old 26th April 2011, 17:32   #1782
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What sort of subsidy is that? Almost 50% tax on every litre of petrol & diesel ,and then they tell common man that they are getting subsidy on fuel.
I think its high time govt stops funding common wealth scams from poor man's pockets.
It has been 60 years that govts have overhauled debts and scams, from fuel tax.
If state owned oil firms are loosing money,ask them to be more efficient in there process and cut there useless spendings of sponsring cricket tournaments and likes.
Reduce central excise,and state excise and other funny taxes to overhaul underrecovery.
Its not funny anymore to watch ceo s and petroleum minister hopping on a chopper ride to watch cricket matches.
How does a company loosing 16-20rs on every liter afford such fanfare for its officials?
A country like brazil runs 25% of its vehicles On fuel made from sugarcane!
What happned to our own jetropha bio diesel projects and other altermatives?
What is the govt's future policy or are they waiting for middle east like unrest
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Old 1st May 2011, 01:21   #1783
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Default Re: Fuel Price Thread

Everytime I stop at a petrol station for fuel I feel scammed by the government looking at the diesel prices right beside. There is a good 20+ rupee difference between the price of the two and what is saddening is it is people with fat pay cheques filling subsidised fuel in their gas guzzlers, while I'm punished both at the pump and in the form of taxes (for subsidising diesel) for buying one of the smallest cars available on road.

I fail to understand why decontrolling diesel is such a problem. The market has adjusted to high petrol prices and will also adjust to higher diesel prices. I'm extremely pissed off with the current government for this unequal treatment. I should not be subsidising my boss's ride.
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Old 1st May 2011, 02:16   #1784
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Default Re: Fuel Price Thread

As simple as this till the time the Transport Fleet that is the Trucks are running on Diesel theres no way that the diesel prices will be Deregulated the IMpact on Inflation would be substaintial and no Govt will Jeopardize doing so in the near future, so what one can do is stop cribbing and fill petrol in their cars or more wisely buy a diesel car by spending some more if the daily running warrants so!!
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Old 1st May 2011, 10:00   #1785
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Default Re: Fuel Price Thread

come on guys. I see many posts saying about bosses having merc and BMWs, and common man sponsoring him through subsidy.

Everyone had choice. No one forced you guys to go for petrol. Then why say such statements?

I agree. Its a huge fault on the govt. part. They have actually encouraged and been encouraging the buyers to buy Diesel cars.

But, as we all know, nothing changes in a day. Probably, supreme court should again come up with solid voice asking Govt. to rethink this policy. And ask them to submit the progess report of various alternate fuel projects.

Until then nothing will move.
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