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Old 24th May 2012, 14:27   #2491
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

All over karnataka i think its about 82bucks and thats super high, and for the people who think even the "diesel" price should bu hiked, this will just has a massive effect on each and every product and service.

Cost of almost all commodities is shooting up and the commoner is the one who suffers!

A electrician charged me 100bucks just for a simple check which dint 5mins, when asked he said traveling has become expensive. with the yesterdays hike am sure his charges will shoot up to 150min.
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Old 24th May 2012, 14:34   #2492
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<p>[quote=babu.sundaram;2787077]<img src="images/smilies/Off Topic.gif" border="0" alt="" title="O.T." smilieid="12" class="inlineimg" /> Haves always dominate have-nots. Democracy or anything gives an excuse for the domination!</p>
<p>Interestingly, barring ICBM, rest all are developed by private sector. Every single Govt unit is set up to fail (to benefit..).</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>quote]</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>

I dint mean that govt developed all this stuff, i would be first to clap if govt was able to develop IPL tamasha, ofcourse they have been developed by pvt sector, but govt chipped in with land grab from farmers, reduced taxes and full time subsidised power with promised powerfactor and host of things like that.
OT: As far as ICBM goes, it is still pretty much the latest thing to happen. i would not be surprised if ten years from now , we find out that whole ICBM program was done by chinese or russian company with DRDO seal, ofcourse DRDO paying multi crore coins to put that seal on.
we have not been able to make simple things like trucks, APCs , couldnt copy tanks in 25years. we still dont have an assault rifle which is any where close to world standard. INSAS 5.56mm and 7.62mm are way off the scale in weight and accuracy as compared to any world leading rifle of same caliber even when they are just a copy of existing design. It seems the policy is " Just buy everything, even if you dont need it, atleast someone will make some profit" Who the hell needs to develop technology when all sort of technology is on sale somewhere in the world. does not matter if it is sold at a stupid price, who cares ,money comes from the taxes .

very soon we would find india making host of automobiles (with no fuel to run on) , LCD tvs(with no power to run on) , soaps and shampoos and we as a nation would be standing in an international line of ration to buy food for 150crore junta. We were a Krishi pradhan desh now Mr Krishi has left the building , we are just pradhan desh with half of the world wondering who is the real pradhan of this desh ( corporates or a party or a sardarji or a lady).

we are finding it hard to pay for fuel bill of the country where only a handfull of people own a vehicle, it would be quite intersting to see how will team India cope with importing food for largest ever food starved population in coming ten years. FYI , 2 lac farmers have commited suicide and on an average 7lac leaving /selling there land and moving to cities to look for petty jobs.
Water table is already below usable level in 7 states and 10 more states are to join in within next 5 years. (No new irrigation canals coming up anytime soon) .
Looks like things are going to get out of hand very very soon. I just hope we dont end up in public unrest or civil war like some african countries.
Any way will some one elignten me why is rupee loosing its value at the pace of a light beam?
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Old 24th May 2012, 14:46   #2493
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Just like Sunfilms, would'nt it be great if someone filed a PIL and got a stay against the Govt run oil companies for raising fuel prices, which is a mass consumption product..
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Old 24th May 2012, 15:09   #2494
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayek View Post
Sorry, but it's failing to raise diesel, LPG and kerosene prices that is turning India into a Potemkin village. Raising diesel prices will cause people to use it more efficiently, and help reduce oil imports, apart from freeing resources to reduce the deficit. The direct inflationary impact of a hike in diesel prices would be less than 1% on even low value commodities like cement.
Indeed great to see a Hayekían here. Looks like he is also a monetarist like yours truly. Either take you bitter medicine in one go, or prolong the agony (Keynesian). Unfortunately, the monetarist arguments are total anathema to our dyed in the wool (or closet) socialists. The only FM I can think of who was a monetarist is Jaswant Singh. Forget, 1191 reforms, these were World bank and IMF prescriptions, to enforce which they asked Narasimha Rao to appoint MMS. No options given!
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Old 24th May 2012, 15:18   #2495
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

While the CMs have asked for a roll back ( CNN IBN indicates a roll back of Rs.3 - Rs.5), why dont these gentle men ( and a few ladies) roll back their VAT?

AP suffers 33 % VAT on petrol.

By today's hike, AP's VAT increase is Rs.200 crores; it gets an additional Rs. 2.09 / litre.

VAT on diesel is 22.5 %.

Last edited by simplyself : 24th May 2012 at 15:23.
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Old 24th May 2012, 15:25   #2496
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

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Originally Posted by ghodlur View Post
What puzzles me a lot is there is no reaction from Auto majors in regards to the steep price hike
Maruti had started ad campaign exhorting the potential buyers to beat the petrol price hike by buying Ritz D.
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Old 24th May 2012, 16:01   #2497
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

There are already reports in Media about a partial rollback (Rs. 3-5). It is not yet confirmed but hoping to hear something. Any roll back is surely welcome.
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Old 24th May 2012, 16:58   #2498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
If we had a proper bus system and/ or metro rail system with fair and equitable last mile connectivity, I for one would not want to use my personal vehicle at all, except for outstation drives!
Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
I mean, I wouldnt mind paying a high tax rate if I get something in return but in this scenario, why should we be forced to pay so much for so little??
Agree 100% with these sentiments. The public transport in places like Hong Kong and european cities (i have seen in budapest) has to be seen to believed. Within 500 mtrs we will get a bus/tram/metro, which are both comfortable and safe, even for the ladies. Or we can safely cycle - here cycling means smoke pollution and need for a larger life insurance !

We pay lot of taxes, but we don't get anything from governments. For everything we need to spend extra to make alternate arrangements:
- For water, have to buy a purifier as tap water is not drinkable.
- For elec, we need to have a UPS or diesel genset backup.
- For transport, private bike/car is a must.
- For schooling, we have to send kids to expensive pvt schools, pay donation, and sometimes stand in lines all night to get the forms.
- For health, again go to expensive pvt hospitals (thank god for medical insurance provided by offices).
- Any work from govt, we all know what is needed.

It is the corruption and looting of nation's wealth that results in high taxation but non-existent service delivery. The politicos and bureaucrats treat the exchequer as their private wealth, as if we are still in the pre-independence 'maharaja' and 'shahi khazana' model.

It's so unfortunate that the Lokpal movement died out, that was the first time we had a ray of hope. Really hope it can somehow be revived.
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Old 24th May 2012, 17:28   #2499
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Exclamation Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Team-BHP - View Poll Results

this poll suggest that on average, our fuel expenses are between 1000-6500 for 75% of who voted(580). I take that all the votes are from 2007 when poll was created, with that in mind we will be using somewhere between 23-150 ltrs of petrol pm!

how much more we are shelling out with new hike of 7.5Rs? somewhere 200Rs to 1200Rs more!! is it so much that we are going crazy and thinking to burn and topple the government? i mean give me a break that is just a family(of 3-4) outing for a movie! (that's on upper bound and I sure who is using that much fuel per month is not doing it for nothing. and i sure too that it doesn't matter for him. i mean those 1200Rs pm!)

so, give it a break. relax. there is much more to life and worry than these petty things. my 2 cents!
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Old 24th May 2012, 17:33   #2500
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

For people who wonder about public transport and compare it to some other nations, do we know how they perform financially on their own?

They are public services and profit is not their main concern. Doesn't mean they lose a lot but they manage.

In our country we cannot make one of the systems like public transport better when everything around is corrupt and miss managed.
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Old 24th May 2012, 17:33   #2501
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by dustom_99 View Post
Water table is already below usable level in 7 states and 10 more states are to join in within next 5 years. (No new irrigation canals coming up anytime soon) .
Looks like things are going to get out of hand very very soon. I just hope we dont end up in public unrest or civil war like some african countries.
Any way will some one elignten me why is rupee loosing its value at the pace of a light beam?
Irrigation schemes in MH have grown at 0.1% over last 10 years. I read in Firstpost that the person who was given this irrigation contract in Satara/ Sangli has built a helipad at his palatial home. No project exists.

Rupee losing value? Perhaps some people are bringing back money stashed abroad? with so many things going wrong, is it a wonder that we are skeptical about any and every thing?
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Old 24th May 2012, 18:14   #2502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akj123 View Post
Agree 100% with these sentiments. The public transport in places like Hong Kong and european cities (i have seen in budapest) has to be seen to believed. Within 500 mtrs we will get a bus/tram/metro, which are both comfortable and safe, even for the ladies. Or we can safely cycle - here cycling means smoke pollution and need for a larger life insurance !

We pay lot of taxes, but we don't get anything from governments. For everything we need to spend extra to make alternate arrangements:
- For water, have to buy a purifier as tap water is not drinkable.
- For elec, we need to have a UPS or diesel genset backup.
- For transport, private bike/car is a must.
- For schooling, we have to send kids to expensive pvt schools, pay donation, and sometimes stand in lines all night to get the forms.
- For health, again go to expensive pvt hospitals (thank god for medical insurance provided by offices).
- Any work from govt, we all know what is needed.

It is the corruption and looting of nation's wealth that results in high taxation but non-existent service delivery. The politicos and bureaucrats treat the exchequer as their private wealth, as if we are still in the pre-independence 'maharaja' and 'shahi khazana' model.

It's so unfortunate that the Lokpal movement died out, that was the first time we had a ray of hope. Really hope it can somehow be revived.
I don't want to get into an extended debate here, but the Indian middle class wants to have its cake and eat it too. Our economy has grown among the fastest in recent years, our incomes have gone up and - yes - in many cities the provision of pubic services has greatly improved. Please remember that we are not Hong Kong and Budapest -- we are still one of the poorest countries in the world although you would not know that from the number of Bentleys and Lamborghinis you see on the roads in some cities.

Now I may have a Delhi bias -- and yes Delhi has done better than most other cities -- but in the last few years we have had a metro, new buses, new airports, flyovers/bridges, BRT, CNG public transport to reduce pollution and so on. Many public services are now available online. There is a long way to go but I think it is incorrect to say that nothing has improved. This is despite high levels of corruption.

So we may have many genuine complaints, but it is fashionable to blame politicians/bureaucrats without giving credit where credit is due. And no one talks about corporate corruption which is 50% of the story.
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Old 24th May 2012, 19:03   #2503
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That is the whole point, indian economy has grown, people are getting very decent pay now, last ten years places like delhi and other metros have seen enormous improvement in facilities. India actually is doing good.
I wonder where that growth rate has effected the life of 80+ crore indians who still does not manage to make 30rs a day. People do not have food to eat and place to sleep.50% children are under weight due to malnutrition. If this is the state when india is suppose to be doing good, what would happen when this so called growth rate comes down?
I am no economist and I don't know what effect will rise in fuel price have in lives of the poorest.but surely it isn't going to make it easy for them.


Sadly delhi isn't india, nor is it remotest representative of real india. That 1200 bucks/month hike may not be much for most of us on net, there are load s of our country folks for whome 1200 is there monthly salary, and they are barely alive in this nation.
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Old 24th May 2012, 19:22   #2504
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Car Fan View Post
So we may have many genuine complaints, but it is fashionable to blame politicians/bureaucrats without giving credit where credit is due. And no one talks about corporate corruption which is 50% of the story.
The growth is not due to them, but despite them. Most infrastructure is only an excuse to milk more money for themselves. Can anyone say with confidence that any of these project costs are actual and not inflated?

In probably related terms, here is an interesting read on official car misuse:
Petrol price hike: Extortion of common man: Blog on Random Access by Rajesh Kalra | ET Blogs

Quote:
Originally Posted by dustom_99 View Post
That is the whole point, indian economy has grown, people are getting very decent pay now, last ten years places like delhi and other metros have seen enormous improvement in facilities. India actually is doing good.
true, and with this inflation going up, even the so called affluent IT/ ITES sector and middle class will get hit. Slowly but surely. Our savings potential is going down drastically and soon the time will come where drastic measures will have to be taken to ensure we have a decent retired life. Especially as we dont have any public pension to speak of.

The number of poor will only increase, but this will obviously be underreported as perhaps 10 years down the line, the BPL amount would be 34 bucks per day.
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Old 24th May 2012, 19:48   #2505
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I saw a tweet that was being aired of NDTV yesterday saying "Petrol costs 16/liter when it leaves the refinery and he claimed that he works for one of the Oil companies."

I am not sure if that's true. Even if it costs say 25-30 per liter why should we shell out almost 82 rupees? What kind of governance is this?

Ok, so we are paying so much.. where is this all going?!!? We don't even have proper roads!

Whom do we give power to in this country? Can we say that if not Party A, Party B or C will actually do anything significantly better? I really wish we can say that, we have just 2 more years of this party ruling and post that we will bring it down and say we will get a better party to rule this country who will not be corrupt?

If anything has to work in this country, I strongly believe it has to start from the individual. We all need to collectively stop paying any bribes. And do whatever it takes to abide by law and not break it. Be it as small thing as stopping at a Red light and using low beam while night driving. (Yes, many of our "Educated" lot also pay no respect to these traffic rules)

I had a lot of faith on the Lokpal bill movement, and unfortunately as everything in this country, it has died down and slowly be forgotten. I really wish that we see a ray of hope.
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