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Old 3rd January 2016, 00:08   #5161
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by zwift1819 View Post
I believe the crude has dropped to 35$ a barrel and now the government instead of giving the citizen petroleum products for a much cheaper rate is increasing tax slabs and maintaining more or less the same rate! Price has dropped in dollars and we get 1 rupee off the price. Avaiation fuel also at the same time has taken a big fall and now the airlines are making hay when sun shines!
Zwift.
Hi.
Our Indian crude basket is $33.
Here is a link from The Economic Times dated 24/12/2015 on this point.
http://epaperbeta.timesofindia.com//...24122015016021

Carboy
Hi
AFAIK never and if done within no time taxes increased.
Regards
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Old 3rd January 2016, 00:30   #5162
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Government on Saturday hiked excise duty on petrol by Rs 0.37 per litre and by Rs 2 a litre on diesel, the second increase in duties in just over two weeks, to mop up a little less than Rs 4,400 crore.

However, there will be no increase in retail selling price of petrol and diesel as state-owned oil firms had not passed on the full benefit of a reduction in international oil prices to consumers on January 1.

Source: TOI
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/50419302.cms
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Old 3rd January 2016, 09:47   #5163
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

I think there is more than what meets the eye. It could be part of an exercise to mop revenue and more important, equalize Excise on Petrol and Diesel. VAT being a State Subject is another matter! Yesterday, I saw the price of ATF and Kerosene (free sale) about the same. Shade below ₹40 for ATF and shade about that for Kerosene. Now with kerosene going under DBT from April I expect better Diesel at eh bunks, and a drop in Kerosene consumption, and increase Diesel consumption!!
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Old 4th January 2016, 14:03   #5164
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
I think the prices of Diesel & Petrol are more or less free.
If this statement was true, the prices of petrol and diesel would be much cheaper than it is currently. The fact is that there is no real deregulation of fuel in india. When international crude goes up, we pay substantially more, and when it comes down, we still don't get the benefit of lower prices. How can you say its free pricing?
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Old 4th January 2016, 15:24   #5165
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Deregulation is only for the Government and Oil companies. For the common man its like the real estate prices in Bangalore, it shoots up when there is demand and stays there when there is none and never declines.
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Old 4th January 2016, 16:38   #5166
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

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I will like to see Kerosene prices brought more or less on par with Diesel. Only this morning I was talking to a senior consultant (Medical) in a mofussil town, and he said that one can take it that Diesel at the pumps has at least 25% kerosene. So that is the crunch, if need be they can pay back the poor folk through Direct Fund Transfer.
Surprised to see that it will happen from 1 April. But even if the centre brings Excise at Par between petrol and Diesel, will the states cooperate by equializing the VAT!

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Originally Posted by lurker View Post
kerosene is more calorific value than diesel. So it should be 'enrichment' instead of contamination. hain ji ?
It is not just the calorific value. There are other issues involved. K-oil damages the injection system for sure! And what about the x-ppm of Sulfur!!
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Old 5th January 2016, 23:46   #5167
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It is not just the calorific value. There are other issues involved. K-oil damages the injection system for sure! And what about the x-ppm of Sulfur!!
Can you please explain in more detail how kerosene ruins diesel injection systems? I know bad fuel and particulate matter will ruin it. My query is specific to pure clean kerosene mixed with diesel.

Could you also point to some reference materials please so that I can get a better understanding of this issue?

Thank you.
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Old 6th January 2016, 09:53   #5168
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

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Can you please explain in more detail how kerosene ruins diesel injection systems? I know bad fuel and particulate matter will ruin it. My query is specific to pure clean kerosene mixed with diesel.
Kerosene (purity is irrelevant) will lower the viscosity to start with. Not very healthy for the injection system. Then there is no control on Sulphur is Kerosene. Euro-IV demands a figure which is 3x better than even our pathetic BS-IV (I think 150 and 500ppm or is it 0 and 150). Probably the biggest contributor to fine SPM is Sulphur in fuel. It is also preventing Merc from bringing in Blue Tech to India.

Mind you this is pure Diesel. How much can be found at bunks is another matter.

Last edited by sgiitk : 6th January 2016 at 09:54.
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Old 6th January 2016, 10:03   #5169
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

what is situation of diesel adultration with naphtha these days ? Earlier we used to hear a lot of naphtha from Reliance refinery being freely used to adultrate petrol/diesel from mathura refinery. Apparently some industries in vicinity of UP used to buy naphtha for operating some furnaces/boilers/turbines, later on they stopped using this naptha for furnaces and maybe switched over to cheaper furnace oil or like but still kept buying it from Reliance and diverted it for adultration of petrol/diesel in large parts of North India. This may have not been official but a side business racket of some employees, seeing it's viability it caught on big time.

I highly doubt kerosene would have been used to adultrate diesel/petrol since it's pretty hard to get. Even PDS shop owners have a hard time getting hold of kerosene stock to supply to ration card holders. No way is the quantity going to be sufficient for adultrating petrol or diesel in a single pump, let alone massive scale adultration.
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Old 6th January 2016, 11:55   #5170
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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Kerosene (purity is irrelevant) will lower the viscosity to start with. Not very healthy for the injection system. Then there is no control on Sulphur is Kerosene. Euro-IV demands a figure which is 3x better than even our pathetic BS-IV (I think 150 and 500ppm or is it 0 and 150). Probably the biggest contributor to fine SPM is Sulphur in fuel. It is also preventing Merc from bringing in Blue Tech to India.

Mind you this is pure Diesel. How much can be found at bunks is another matter.
I'm sorry, but I do not understand your reply. AFAIK, Low sulphur levels in diesel fuel were mandated due to concerns around emissions, not due to performance or reliability concerns. And I'm aware that adulterated fuel will increase emissions. Secondly a lower viscosity in fuel should actually help reduce fouling of the injectors, not worsen it.

I would appreciate if you could reply to my query with some specific references.

My Query is : How diesel mixed with kerosene would adversely impact the injectors?

Awaiting your reply.
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Old 6th January 2016, 12:58   #5171
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

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Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
I'm sorry, but I do not understand your reply. 1. AFAIK, Low sulphur levels in diesel fuel were mandated due to concerns around emissions, not due to performance or reliability concerns. And I'm aware that adulterated fuel will increase emissions.

2.Secondly a lower viscosity in fuel should actually help reduce fouling of the injectors, not worsen it.

I would appreciate if you could reply to my query with some specific references.

My Query is : How diesel mixed with kerosene would adversely impact the injectors?
1. No questions here. If we hit the Euro-VI or even Euro-V see the next generation diesels here, like Merc Blue.

2. The system is designed to work with fluid of a particular viscosity. If viscosity is reduced the same pressure will lead to a higher flow. Also, the flow back is used to cool the injectors, so it is a complex game. Rest of the argument is secondary.
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Old 6th January 2016, 14:09   #5172
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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
1. No questions here. If we hit the Euro-VI or even Euro-V see the next generation diesels here, like Merc Blue.

2. The system is designed to work with fluid of a particular viscosity. If viscosity is reduced the same pressure will lead to a higher flow. Also, the flow back is used to cool the injectors, so it is a complex game. Rest of the argument is secondary.
Sir - I do not agree with your hypothesis, but am willing to be corrected if you can post some references to buttress your earlier point that "K-Oil damages the injection system for sure"

Even if I buy your argument regarding higher flow due to lower viscosity, it should be the same as increased throttle, and should not adversely impact the injectors. I need some logical statements backed by some references to be able to agree with you.

Please leave out emissions and Merc Blue, since I am not contesting that point.

Last edited by Lalvaz : 6th January 2016 at 14:11.
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Old 6th January 2016, 16:21   #5173
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

One very good set of information is at
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=2270885

essentially says K-oil is Ok provided you add some lube. It is an old set where they wanted to add sulfur since K-oil in the US has none. Some chaps are adding 2 stroke oil to K-oil to give it a lube capability. They also say that K-oil has zero sulfur.

Also, K-oil makes the engine run hotter
http://www.nairaland.com/791730/use-...eisel-engine/1

The bottom line seems to be while it is Ok to use K-oil short term it will affect the life of the life of the engine. This discussion is mostly about farm equipment, which is not that sophisticated.

Google for 'Kerosene in Diesel Engines' and you will hit a gold mine of information. Obviously K-oil is not as detrimental as I feared.
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Old 7th January 2016, 02:30   #5174
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
One very good set of information is at
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=2270885

essentially says K-oil is Ok provided you add some lube. It is an old set where they wanted to add sulfur since K-oil in the US has none. Some chaps are adding 2 stroke oil to K-oil to give it a lube capability. They also say that K-oil has zero sulfur.

Also, K-oil makes the engine run hotter
http://www.nairaland.com/791730/use-...eisel-engine/1

The bottom line seems to be while it is Ok to use K-oil short term it will affect the life of the life of the engine. This discussion is mostly about farm equipment, which is not that sophisticated.

Google for 'Kerosene in Diesel Engines' and you will hit a gold mine of information. Obviously K-oil is not as detrimental as I feared.
So kerosene will not ruin the injectors is what I'm reading on your links. Also the calorific value of kerosene is lower than diesel, so the engine cannot run hotter on kerosene as compared to diesel. That's a mistake on your link as well.
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Old 7th January 2016, 08:10   #5175
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

@Lalvaz; Running hotter has more to do with reduced Cetane ratings. Calorific values imho are fairly similar. There is one thread which says that K-oil can ruin the injectors pretty fast. In the US K-oil is also called Diesel 1.
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