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Old 22nd January 2016, 21:25   #5281
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

I would love to discuss on these topics but it will be in bigger interest of the forum to stick to the topic of discussion. It is getting too political IMO. We shall put it to stop now.
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Old 22nd January 2016, 21:57   #5282
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

This thread should ideally be moved out of the automotive section. Fuel taxation is a political topic in India and invariably leads to debates. If all we need is a 'petrol/diesel costs Rs. X in location Y on date Z' thread, we should probably rename the thread. 'Fuel Price Updates/Bulletins' anyone?
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Old 23rd January 2016, 01:13   #5283
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

@sgiitk, I gave some examples to illustrate my point. If the operational speed can be increased to 100 kmph across India, it will solve a lot of problems.
Rajdhani/Duronto is elitist. There are thousands of routes and if operational speed is consistently increased, it will be wonderful. Ex: Chennai - Hyd in 7 hours will impact bus travel. But it may not happen our government has different priorities.
Bullet trains are of limited use in India as per cost/benefit analysis. To each his own. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
As sourabhzen suggested, fuel prices is a GD topic and a nice evening time Chai discussion, with political ramifications.
Until some viable, feasible alternate energy comes up, Oil will be a cash cow for the governments.
I rest my case.
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Old 24th January 2016, 10:11   #5284
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by manduvindupondu View Post
@sgiitk, I gave some examples to illustrate my point. If the operational speed can be increased to 100 kmph across India, it will solve a lot of problems.
Rajdhani/Duronto is elitist. There are thousands of routes and if operational speed is consistently increased, it will be wonderful. Ex: Chennai - Hyd in 7 hours will impact bus travel. But it may not happen our government has different priorities.
My final post on the topic; having done some work for the railways in the past I am a bit familiar with the system:

Not many members know what differentiates Mail and Express trains. A Mail Train was to stop at every District to take on and disgorge mail. With every hamlet becoming a district these may only be every few km apart today.

Now a stop entails, slowing down, stopping, speeding up and there are overheads associated with these. So if the trains are not 'elitist' with very few stops they cannot maintain a decent average speed.

Today, so called democratization has resulted the even to so called elitist Shatabdi between Kanpur and Delhi having four (or is it five) stops in 443km. I remember when the Shramshakti Express was launched (Kanpur-Delhi non-stop), a powerful MP got up to demand a stop in his place. Nitish Kumar folded his hands and said, that this train passes through 27 parliamentary constituencies, and I cannot provide for 27 MPs, and request you to leave it as such.

100kph average in not really feasible unless you reduce the number of stops (howls of protest). Also, nearly saturated tracks cannot allow any more trains. I hear the freight corridor intends to increase the cross section of wagons two fold, needing more separation on tracks. a 2x increase in cross section with result in shorter wagons. There are limitations on how long a train can be. Already, we are having 64 wagon trains, and even two of these in tandem.

I hope this answers some of the doubts.

Last edited by sgiitk : 24th January 2016 at 10:14.
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Old 30th January 2016, 20:17   #5285
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http://profit.ndtv.com/news/economy/...report-1271801

The government has hiked excise duty on petrol by Rs 1 per litre and that on diesel by Rs 1.5 per litre
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Old 31st January 2016, 09:28   #5286
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post
http://profit.ndtv.com/news/economy/...report-1271801

The government has hiked excise duty on petrol by Rs 1 per litre and that on diesel by Rs 1.5 per litre
Matched by price cuts so the effect at the pump is zilch. Now we can go back to cribbing about not enough price reductions.
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Old 31st January 2016, 10:58   #5287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Matched by price cuts so the effect at the pump is zilch. Now we can go back to cribbing about not enough price reductions.
Price cuts came because cost price has decreased. Not because of some benevolence by the government.

If oil price is decreasing, price at the pump should be decreasing - so "effect at the pump is zilch" is actually bad. We want effect at the pump.
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Old 31st January 2016, 15:26   #5288
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post
Price cuts came because cost price has decreased. Not because of some benevolence by the government.

If oil price is decreasing, price at the pump should be decreasing
I tend to agree. What does VAT or value Added Tax mean - a percentage on the price. Why have states defined a misnomer - a floor VAT. So they broke the rules first in their greed.

They had refused to reduce VAT when the centre had requested some relief to the consumer by reducing VAT. I will rather pay to the centre than for Havans, Chadors, Safari Parks and Birthday bashes. Unfortunately, these crooks still get 42% of the revenues!
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Old 31st January 2016, 19:42   #5289
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

@carboy; at least the level of corruption in centrally handled schemes is far lower. Otherwise there is a competition between states as to which is leaking more. I guess UP can at least claim the bronze. It may be tough for us to match Bihar and J&K.
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Old 31st January 2016, 20:28   #5290
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
at least the level of corruption in centrally handled schemes is far lower.
Do you have a source for that? Also I thought we were talking about the uselessness of the schemes itself irrespective of corruption.

Last edited by carboy : 31st January 2016 at 20:29.
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Old 31st January 2016, 21:01   #5291
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
My final post on the topic; having done some work for the railways in the past I am a bit familiar with the system:
Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post
http://profit.ndtv.com/news/economy/...report-1271801
The government has hiked excise duty on petrol by Rs 1 per litre and that on diesel by Rs 1.5 per litre
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Matched by price cuts so the effect at the pump is zilch. Now we can go back to cribbing about not enough price reductions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post
Price cuts came because cost price has decreased. Not because of some benevolence by the government.
If oil price is decreasing, price at the pump should be decreasing - so "effect at the pump is zilch" is actually bad. We want effect at the pump.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
I tend to agree. What does VAT or value Added Tax mean - a percentage on the price. Why have states defined a misnomer - a floor VAT. So they broke the rules first in their greed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post
You prefer to pay rather for Yoga Day, 1-year anniversary bash, Statue of Unity and other boondoggles?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
@carboy; at least the level of corruption in centrally handled schemes is far lower. Otherwise there is a competition between states as to which is leaking more. I guess UP can at least claim the bronze. It may be tough for us to match Bihar and J&K.
Thanks for the above exchange, sgiitk & carboy - it was certainly very entertaining and at the same time enlightening! Being an interested spectator to the shenanigans of the centre/state mess I will just say that I wish that there was a difference at "the pump" and so to my pocket! sgiitk, I cant say about J&K, but UP would certainly put up a stiff fight for the crown - I live in Lucknow too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by manduvindupondu View Post
@sgiitk, I gave some examples to illustrate my point. If the operational speed can be increased to 100 kmph across India, it will solve a lot of problems.
Rajdhani/Duronto is elitist. There are thousands of routes and if operational speed is consistently increased, it will be wonderful. Ex: Chennai - Hyd in 7 hours will impact bus travel. But it may not happen our government has different priorities.
Bullet trains are of limited use in India as per cost/benefit analysis. To each his own. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
As sourabhzen suggested, fuel prices is a GD topic and a nice evening time Chai discussion, with political ramifications.
Until some viable, feasible alternate energy comes up, Oil will be a cash cow for the governments.
I rest my case.
But what I find amazing is that after decades of crying wolf about the voracious depleting of fossil fuels (there was even speculation whether we would last this half-century!) - the dooms-dayers seem to have called it a day!

Last edited by ampere : 2nd February 2016 at 11:37. Reason: Fixed quote
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Old 31st January 2016, 21:53   #5292
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
My final post on the topic; having done some work for the railways in the past I am a bit familiar with the system:

Not many members know what differentiates Mail and Express trains. A Mail Train was to stop at every District to take on and disgorge mail. With every hamlet becoming a district these may only be every few km apart today.

Now a stop entails, slowing down, stopping, speeding up and there are overheads associated with these. So if the trains are not 'elitist' with very few stops they cannot maintain a decent average speed.

Today, so called democratization has resulted the even to so called elitist Shatabdi between Kanpur and Delhi having four (or is it five) stops in 443km. I remember when the Shramshakti Express was launched (Kanpur-Delhi non-stop), a powerful MP got up to demand a stop in his place. Nitish Kumar folded his hands and said, that this train passes through 27 parliamentary constituencies, and I cannot provide for 27 MPs, and request you to leave it as such.

100kph average in not really feasible unless you reduce the number of stops (howls of protest). Also, nearly saturated tracks cannot allow any more trains. I hear the freight corridor intends to increase the cross section of wagons two fold, needing more separation on tracks. a 2x increase in cross section with result in shorter wagons. There are limitations on how long a train can be. Already, we are having 64 wagon trains, and even two of these in tandem.

I hope this answers some of the doubts.
Theres an excellent and very informative 18 part (so far) series of articles on Indian Railways by noted economist Bibek Debroy (who led the latest committee on Reforms in IR)
http://swarajyamag.com/columns/railw...competition-i/

This is actually outside the purview of this thread so mods can move all these posts on IR to an appropriate thread. Just felt like sharing it. these articles have lot of data and interesting facts and figures that would help us form informed opinions on this matter at least!
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Old 1st February 2016, 07:57   #5293
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Agree with sgiitk here. Even if the center reduces the rates , all the state governments do is that they hike their tax rate . I feel it's far better to pay the central government who does something for the common man rather than pay these useless state governments who take our taxes and do nothing! .
People have been talking about the uselessness of the schemes like yoga day,bullet trains and stuff. Personally speaking bullet trains in spite of proving fast travel also provides a platform for atleast some form of economic development. The yoga day is something that makes me realy proud as an Indian and I personally feel its a good move. Many of these steps actually makes one feel a lot more proud about our country. Agree their could be leaks ,but its far lesser than what we see at our state governments who do nothing but scams!.Sorry for the long rant here .

PS :Getting back on the topic. I've remember somewhere that if the prices of commodities go realy low its actually worse for the economy than price rice. Is that right?.
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Old 1st February 2016, 11:25   #5294
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by VRPAI View Post
PS :Getting back on the topic. I've remember somewhere that if the prices of commodities go realy low its actually worse for the economy than price rice. Is that right?.
That is absolutely right, except for the fact that there is no transmission of the price drop to the people, especially in the case of petrol. The price we pay at the pump has been hovering around Rs. 60 (+/- Re 1) for months even though almost every other day we read in the papers that crude oil prices are falling. In fact I'm ready to wager that if prices start moving up before the end of this financial year, they would hike pump prices rather than lower the excise duty.

At the end of the day, the govt needs money to run, but basic common sense indicates that you would first plan for the funds for whatever scheme and then implement it. Rather what I see happening is that the self proclaimed Pradhan sevak goes on declaring novel schemes as and when he pleases and the FM then goes on to hike VAT/cess or whatever else he can as a token of his gratitude to the back door entry given to him inspite of the massive drubbing he received at the poll booth.
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Old 1st February 2016, 15:59   #5295
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

For all those expecting acha din:

Petrol prices reduced by 4 paise, and Diesel prices by 3 paise! Well done!

Last edited by Zappo : 1st February 2016 at 19:45. Reason: Please be mindful of the words you choose to use! Post edited.
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