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Old 24th August 2017, 15:50   #6031
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

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Originally Posted by Vitalstatistiks View Post
Thanks, glad someone has picked it up. Give it a couple of days (of increase), and the news may go actually mainstream (i.e.TOI).

Btw, noticed something in the article. It says- "Domestic petrol and diesel prices are linked to international petrol and diesel rates, and not that of crude oil, the raw material."

Does it mean to suggest that prices are not linked to crude basket on a day to day basis, because the companies import in bulk and hence, today's crude price may not be reflective of actual cost in delivering a litre of petrol to you? And hence, they link it to 'international petrol rates'?

If yes, what is this 'international petrol rates' that our prices are linked to?

On that point, does anyone actually know the formula used by these companies to change the prices daily? There used to be some forex, crude price combination formula they used for the fortnightly revision, which was ok because it would factor in crude imported over a period of time and average it to give the price. It definitely cannot work in case of daily revision. What would be the trigger for daily revision?

Please help me understand this better [I am doing my own research also]. This feels like a fit case for PIL, but may be an RTI or two should be filed first asking what formula these companies are applying.
The formula and calculations for Delhi are given on this website. http://www.mycarhelpline.com/index.p...=417&Itemid=10

Its a very absurd scenario wherein we are paying more than 100% taxes on fuel and yet, the common perception was that Diesel fuel was/is subsidized by the government.

In our neighbouring countries, such as Bangladesh, Pakistan etc, costs of fuel are cheaper than in India.

Fuel has also been kept out of the purview of GST, so that states can further increase taxes if they wish, and of course they wish.

Please do file a PIL. Will support you in anyway I can.
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Old 24th August 2017, 17:01   #6032
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

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Originally Posted by Vitalstatistiks View Post
Thanks, glad someone has picked it up. Give it a couple of days (of increase), and the news may go actually mainstream (i.e.TOI).

Does it mean to suggest that prices are not linked to crude basket on a day to day basis, because the companies import in bulk and hence, today's crude price may not be reflective of actual cost in delivering a litre of petrol to you? And hence, they link it to 'international petrol rates'?

On that point, does anyone actually know the formula used by these companies to change the prices daily? There used to be some forex, crude price combination formula they used for the fortnightly revision, which was ok because it would factor in crude imported over a period of time and average it to give the price. It definitely cannot work in case of daily revision. What would be the trigger for daily revision?
I too am confused as to how the price can change daily, especially when forex markets and commodity markets do not operate on all 7 days a week. Shouldn't there be a pause in rates on Sunday and Monday considering that on the previous days the markets are not open?
Do the petrol / fuel prices vary on a similar day to day basis in other countries as well? ie even when markets are closed?
Would be great if we can get the actual formula or policy which drives pricing of fuel in India and compare with other countries as well.
I would prefer a weekly price revision since right now the supporting tech or app infrastructure to monitor prices in not in place. Nothing stops the dealers from manipulating prices by a few paise more at a pump. To get the actual dealer code to SMS and find the authorised price is a hassle especially when I do not have a particular favourite pump to check prices before I leave from home.
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Old 25th August 2017, 15:30   #6033
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Brent FOB ($/ Barrel):
6 months ago: 55.84
1 month ago: 50.20
1 week ago: 51.03
1 day Ago: 52.57
Last Day: 52.04

Change in 6 months: -6.8%
Change in a month: +3.7%
Change in a week: +2.0%
Change in a day: -1.0%

This data indicated we are being taken for a ride.
We should do something.
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Old 25th August 2017, 16:11   #6034
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

You should check PIB data for barrel price in rupees. It decreased yesterday by ₹30.

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/pmreleases.aspx?mincode=20

Oil companies are indulging in some third rate arbitrage at expense of Indian public.

Today there was slight increase in Indian oil basket. But dollar fell by few paise as well.

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/pmreleases.aspx?mincode=20

So how can they increase by 15 paise. At most increase should be in range of 1 or 2 paise.

what oil companies are doing is cashing in on pretext of volatility. And our politicians are shameless enough to support them in their con job. Where is the Prime Minister of 'mann ki baat' now ?? My 'mann kee baat' screams fraud ?? doesn't he share my concern ??
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Old 25th August 2017, 17:22   #6035
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

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So how can they increase by 15 paise. At most increase should be in range of 1 or 2 paise.

what oil companies are doing is cashing in on pretext of volatility.
I'll stick my neck out on this one and suggest that this is because of this news appearing in multiple media yesterday. Basically, they just bumped up the price more than required, so that they can cut it by a few paise over next couple of days and hope to weather the brewing storm.
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Old 25th August 2017, 21:03   #6036
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

The intent of the government was to not pass on the benefit to the common people. These are all exotic ways to confuse/ obfuscate the public. The petrol prices are just 5 rupees shy of their all time peak.

Somehow, no one in the media seems to question the government on this lack of co-relation between the international prices and our domestic prices.
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Old 28th August 2017, 08:57   #6037
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Despite reports by media, prices continue to rise. Again another 4 paise hike in Petrol today. Not sure the rationale behind this hike!!
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Old 28th August 2017, 09:22   #6038
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Constantly shifting goalposts, basically anything that justifies a hike is the formula for the day.

The 'international fuel prices' reasoning is BS. Whose prices are they benchmarking against exactly? And why?

The kind of jargon bingo inflicted on us these days puts the worst corporates to shame!
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Old 28th August 2017, 09:46   #6039
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

I guess the present government is waiting for this issue to pick up and then when time is right and in their favour for some political use or advantage, they may go ahead and reduce price with some populist move.

Frankly speaking, I have not come across to any article or opinion with hard data justifying this rise. All the data available are pointing towards a falling fuel price globally along with stronger rupee against US dollar.
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Old 29th August 2017, 07:19   #6040
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

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Originally Posted by NaXal View Post
I guess the present government is waiting for this issue to pick up and then when time is right and in their favour for some political use or advantage, they may go ahead and reduce price with some populist move.
Domestic fuel prices are linked to international fuel prices and not to the price of the raw material which is the crude oil, and international fuel prices are rising on the back of OPEC deciding to stabilize output.
Also, as Petrol, diesel, jet fuel, crude oil and natural gas are not in the ambit of GST, the prices of these commodities vary due to local levies. GST has led to states losing out on revenue(at least in the near future) which they may be compensating by levies on petrol and diesel.
To track fuel prices regularly, I use the app-Fuel@IOC(I use it on Google play, not sure on Apple store). For BPCL- SmartDrive and for HP- MYHPCL. These will help you monitor fuel prices daily.

Last edited by ampere : 29th August 2017 at 07:45.
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Old 29th August 2017, 09:34   #6041
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We are paying euro rates for oil. Whereas considering our location, viz India is right next to middle east. We don't get any advantages from our location. Take a wind powered dhow from gujarat, maharashtra or anywhere in western India coast, and you will reach mid-east coastline within a day. On a engine powered boat it just takes 15 hours. Any important oil hub in middle east is just 1000 kms away from mumbai ot jamnagar. Eg jamnagar to muscat or mumbai to bandar abbas. This is lesser distance than intra-India.

Now compare distance between mid-east petroleum exporting hubs and scandanavian countries which charge highest price of petrol/diesel anywhere in the world. viz same price as charged in India. They have to pay penalty for the long logistical chain before supplies are delivered to end user.

Whereas shameless Govt of India and its oil marketing companies treat us as if petrol is imported from far away planet mars. Atleast thats the price we pay. Maybe shipping from mars may turn out cheaper.
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Old 30th August 2017, 10:36   #6042
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

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Originally Posted by SourabhSuresh View Post
Domestic fuel prices are linked to international fuel prices and not to the price of the raw material which is the crude oil
Hey, thanks for that. Any idea why the domestic prices are linked to international prices, and not the actual price of crude? Because that is the cost incurred by the oil importing companies. And what are the international prices of fuel linked to?

In general, trying to understand what's going on a little better, it is a common practice for individual companies/countries to negotiate their own deals with oil exporting countries. I would like to believe that India does too. Where can I get any information on that?

Also, India does not depend on just Middle East for oil, there are multiple countries. Not to forget India's own domestic production. Where will the break-up for India's source of crude be available?

Thanks.

Last edited by Vitalstatistiks : 30th August 2017 at 10:37.
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Old 31st August 2017, 11:51   #6043
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

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Originally Posted by lurker View Post
We are paying euro rates for oil. Whereas considering our location, viz India is right next to middle east. We don't get any advantages from our location. Take a wind powered dhow from gujarat, maharashtra or anywhere in western India coast, and you will reach mid-east coastline within a day. On a engine powered boat it just takes 15 hours. Any important oil hub in middle east is just 1000 kms away from mumbai ot jamnagar. Eg jamnagar to muscat or mumbai to bandar abbas. This is lesser distance than intra-India.

Now compare distance between mid-east petroleum exporting hubs and scandanavian countries which charge highest price of petrol/diesel anywhere in the world. viz same price as charged in India. They have to pay penalty for the long logistical chain before supplies are delivered to end user.

Whereas shameless Govt of India and its oil marketing companies treat us as if petrol is imported from far away planet mars. Atleast thats the price we pay. Maybe shipping from mars may turn out cheaper.
I'm not justifying the prices but it's not as simplistic as distance. Reliance will buy crude from wherever in the world it is cheapest and where their margin can be highest. So they buy from Africa, Iraq, Iran, Venezuela and of course Saudi Arabia among others. Jamnagar being a complex, modern refinery can process all sorts of poor-quality crude into fuels. Obviously, more difficult to process grades are cheaper than the typical sweet crude from the Middle East.

BPCL for example has recently bought two cargoes of crude all the way from the U.S.
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Old 31st August 2017, 14:54   #6044
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Crude prices reduced by 2% yesterday however still there was a price increase, can't at all understand why?
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Old 31st August 2017, 21:48   #6045
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Originally Posted by StallionAmit View Post
Crude prices reduced by 2% yesterday however still there was a price increase, can't at all understand why?
Probably due to the hurricane in Texas. Fuel prices in the USA have gone up, so they go up in india too.
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