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Old 5th August 2009, 12:12   #196
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Originally Posted by notjustshrawan View Post
I think these rules and permission granting business from Fiat is why GM has not used Multi-jet engines in its Aveo and other models.
The next gen Spark, which will debut in India in the first quarter next year will feature a 3 cylinder version of 1.3 Multijet engine.
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Old 5th August 2009, 14:00   #197
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The next gen Spark, which will debut in India in the first quarter next year will feature a 3 cylinder version of 1.3 Multijet engine.
Deepak, sorry mate, but the new Spark will not have a diesel engine when it is launched.

A member of the company's top management has confirmed this in an interview during the Spark LPG launch - GM to launch new spark in petrol variant only | Vicky.in | Indian Automobile Blog | Car Reviews | Bike Reviews | Test Drive Reports | Pictures | Videos
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Old 5th August 2009, 14:08   #198
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I wonder why Maruti would want to wait for the 1.6 or the 1.9 Fiat diesel. They should just launch the 1.3 VGT. It may not appeal to the enthusiasts but I bet it will get the job done.
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Old 5th August 2009, 14:19   #199
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Originally Posted by Gilead View Post
I wonder why Maruti would want to wait for the 1.6 or the 1.9 Fiat diesel. They should just launch the 1.3 VGT. It may not appeal to the enthusiasts but I bet it will get the job done.
Gilead Man,

A man cannot but have a puny 1.3 litre heart. It needs lots of cubic inches. It will not gell with the image MSIL is projecting for the SX4.
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Old 5th August 2009, 14:22   #200
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Originally Posted by deepakhon View Post
The next gen Spark, which will debut in India in the first quarter next year will feature a 3 cylinder version of 1.3 Multijet engine.
3 Cylinder Fiat MJD engine is less than 1L and not 1.3L.
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Old 5th August 2009, 14:39   #201
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@notjustshrawa

I stand corrected about the fact that new Spark diesel will not be launched along with new Spark petrol. But, the fact is that when it gets launched, it will be with a 3 cylinder version of the 1.3 Multijet.

@DieselFan,

Upon yanking a cylinder, it will definitely be below 1l. ACI of Aug 2009 has a scoop of the new Spark and they say that this 3 cylinder engine will produce about 75% of the power and torque figures of the 1.3 JTD with FGT.
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Old 5th August 2009, 14:58   #202
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Originally Posted by deepakhon View Post
@notjustshrawa

I stand corrected about the fact that new Spark diesel will not be launched along with new Spark petrol. But, the fact is that when it gets launched, it will be with a 3 cylinder version of the 1.3 Multijet.

@DieselFan,

Upon yanking a cylinder, it will definitely be below 1l. ACI of Aug 2009 has a scoop of the new Spark and they say that this 3 cylinder engine will produce about 75% of the power and torque figures of the 1.3 JTD with FGT.
no problem Deepak, I just wanted to let you know about this development. Why won't Maruti use the 1.3-Multi-jet on the SX4? Would it be under-powered?

I compared the dimensions and Curb weight of the SX4 -

SX4 - 1735mm wide, 4490mm long, 1170-1200kg

Linea - 1730mm wide, 4560mm long, 1160-1185kg

I think both these cars have similar dimensions and weight and a 1.3-liter engine would not be a bad idea. But to give it a big advantage over the Verna, Fiesta and even the Linea, a more powerful engine will help.
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Old 5th August 2009, 15:51   #203
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Originally Posted by notjustshrawan View Post

Linea - 1730mm wide, 4560mm long, 1160-1185kg
The Indian Linea 1.3 MJD is quoted at 129+ kg. I still think the weights of both Linea MJD and SX4 DDiS would be pretty comparable. I do not see any reason why Maruti should not use the 1.3 VGT.
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Old 5th August 2009, 16:06   #204
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Originally Posted by deepakhon View Post
The Indian Linea 1.3 MJD is quoted at 129+ kg. I still think the weights of both Linea MJD and SX4 DDiS would be pretty comparable. I do not see any reason why Maruti should not use the 1.3 VGT.
deepakhon, I've thought of another possible reason - the same 1.3-liter Multijet engine is used on the Dzire and we know the Dzire has been one of the root causes for the decline of the SX4 sales. If you plonk the same diesel engine under the SX4's bonnet, it would bridge the gap between the two and give customers one more reason for taking the slightly cheaper Dzire.

True or False?
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Old 5th August 2009, 17:39   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepakhon View Post
The Indian Linea 1.3 MJD is quoted at 129+ kg. I still think the weights of both Linea MJD and SX4 DDiS would be pretty comparable. I do not see any reason why Maruti should not use the 1.3 VGT.
See, the wheel diameter of both cars vary largely. So,there wouldn't be enough torque if 1.3 is used in SX4.
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Old 5th August 2009, 17:46   #206
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Originally Posted by notjustshrawan View Post
deepakhon, I've thought of another possible reason - the same 1.3-liter Multijet engine is used on the Dzire and we know the Dzire has been one of the root causes for the decline of the SX4 sales. If you plonk the same diesel engine under the SX4's bonnet, it would bridge the gap between the two and give customers one more reason for taking the slightly cheaper Dzire.

True or False?
I am sure if Maruti decides to use the 1.3 JTD in SX4, it will definitely use the VGT version that is there in Linea, and not the FGT version on every other car that uses that engine. Maruti can still claim that SX4 has more power and torque than Dzire.

Another point to note is that Fiat has detuned the engine slightly in Linea. I do not know the reasons why. FE could be one reason. I am wondering whether there is any technical difficulty in letting the engine pump up 90 horses instead of 86. If there is a solid reason why this engine is detuned, maybe, Maruti will think twice before plonking that in SX4.
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Old 6th August 2009, 09:15   #207
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Originally Posted by breezydrive View Post
See, the wheel diameter of both cars vary largely. So,there wouldn't be enough torque if 1.3 is used in SX4.
Are you saying that the torque of the petrol engine is enough for SX4 and the torque of 1.3 diesel which is way better than the petrol one will not be enough. Wheels of Linea and SX4 aren't that different. Okay, even if there is a major difference, they can correct it in the gear ratios or the final drive ratio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepakhon View Post
I am sure if Maruti decides to use the 1.3 JTD in SX4, it will definitely use the VGT version that is there in Linea, and not the FGT version on every other car that uses that engine. Maruti can still claim that SX4 has more power and torque than Dzire.

Another point to note is that Fiat has detuned the engine slightly in Linea. I do not know the reasons why. FE could be one reason. I am wondering whether there is any technical difficulty in letting the engine pump up 90 horses instead of 86. If there is a solid reason why this engine is detuned, maybe, Maruti will think twice before plonking that in SX4.
86 bhp or 90 bhp of 1.3 will not be a scorcher. But it will be sufficient for most people, who hardly cross 150 Kmph on highways. Pickup within city is anyway great in Linea. 0-60 in about 6 seconds. Is anybody going to say that it is not enough? I don't think so. On highways, I reach 170 whenever I wish, I have not struggled at any point of time. Recently, one real estate broker was sitting in the car. He was curious about the top speed I had touched on the car. I say, above 170 and I said, I will show you. It reached 170 and he commented "It does not feel that much fast". That is what Linea does. Okay. My Linea had been once driven by a SX4 owner with four adults and a lot of luggage on a long drive. He commented that overtaking is easy. Not underpowered. Enough of convincing hypocrites
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Old 6th August 2009, 09:44   #208
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Originally Posted by deepakhon View Post
I am sure if Maruti decides to use the 1.3 JTD in SX4, it will definitely use the VGT version that is there in Linea, and not the FGT version on every other car that uses that engine. Maruti can still claim that SX4 has more power and torque than Dzire.

Another point to note is that Fiat has detuned the engine slightly in Linea. I do not know the reasons why. FE could be one reason. I am wondering whether there is any technical difficulty in letting the engine pump up 90 horses instead of 86. If there is a solid reason why this engine is detuned, maybe, Maruti will think twice before plonking that in SX4.
I suspect whether Maruti has license from FIAT manufacture the VGT versions. I think I had read in this forums some time ago that they have got license only for the FGT version. Can somebody confirm?
 
Old 6th August 2009, 10:17   #209
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Originally Posted by ashwinpak View Post
I suspect whether Maruti has license from FIAT manufacture the VGT versions. I think I had read in this forums some time ago that they have got license only for the FGT version. Can somebody confirm?

Hmm thats funny , why would Maruti need a license from Fiat ? I means wasnt it a joint venture between Fiat and Suzuki who developed the magnificent engine in the first place ? If yes then both have them equal rights to use the technology in any way they desire, i.e with FGT/VGT.
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Old 6th August 2009, 11:47   #210
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@opendro,

I agree with you that either 86 or 90, it will definitely not be a scorcher. Also, the shorter gearing might probably ensure that you get decent bursts of acceleration in city driving, making it feel peppy. As you have rightly said, with Fiat's way of tuning this engine, for most people, the torque spread will be ample for day to day city and highway driving.

The point is, how would Maruti like to take this forward? With the gearing that it typically uses, coupled with the weight of SX4 diesel, would this engine be a good fit?

@ashwinpak,

No idea about licensing issues of a specific variant of 1.3.
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