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Old 2nd October 2008, 15:26   #16
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Originally Posted by subbarao View Post
The Capital adds 1,054 personal vehicles every day on its roads. The pressure is unbearable on public infrastructure and health. Nearly 72% of the pollution load in the Capital comes from vehicles and fumes from cars and other personal vehicles dominate. Road space has increased several-fold in the Capital but the growth in cars has far outpaced it. The road network in Delhi has increased 3.7 times between 1971-72 and 2005-06 but during the same period, the number of vehicles has increased 21 times.
Statistics can be molded in whatever people like to!... Did they completely forget the increase in population, from other states. I'm sure that's not less than the cars added everyday!

There is no traffic problem in Delhi!... roads are wide enough .. for everybody. There are a few specific issues which can be EASILY taken care by a clear headed person in the administration!.. (no evidence of such person existing so far!!)


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Consequently, cars that carry merely 30% of the population in the country’s capital hog 70% of its road space. Everyone else gets squeezed out.
A single car-free day in a year is not the answer to this city-choking aspiration of a developing economy.
That figure is screwed!.... 70% space by cars?

Busses + trucks + Autos + 2-wheelers + potholes = 30%.... ???

someone really was desperate to include parked cars!.. to prove that they add to traffic!!!
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Old 2nd October 2008, 15:46   #17
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Everyone is making good, valid points here. This proposal is so narrow-minded and foolish. It's punitive, and I think history has shown that punishing people into submission is the wrong way to go about things. As with all other things here, there will be ways to get around this if it gets enacted, and that is the whole thing that bugs me...why waste time, energy and public money on passing stupid legislation? It would be so much better to tackle the problem head-on...if the roads are inadequate to deal with the traffic today, they will be hopelessly inadequate in 50 years' time.

Our country's population is only headed up and since it's reasonable to expect that larger numbers of people will be on the roads, we need to develop means to get them around. Making people pay more for a second car will solve nothing.

Large scale infrastructure development is needed. Comfortable, reliable, affordable mass transit systems are needed. We need the sort of development that envisages what numbers of people and vehicles can be expected to be plying the roads in 50 years' time and then adapts to those needs today. Sadly even the development that is taking place today is very short-sighted. Funds are squandered and frittered-away making narrow, one-way flyovers that do little to solve today's problems, let alone tomorrow's, while at the same time causing immense inconvenience to millions while the road-works take place.

This is not a problem of "how can we solve this?". It's a problem of "do we really care to solve this?" or are we more interested in filling our pockets and pretending to make improvements.

My two bits...
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Old 2nd October 2008, 15:54   #18
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We in Kerala already have car free days. There are easily 15 or more of them per year, for whole of the state, and easily 50 for small areas.

We call them "hartals".
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Old 2nd October 2008, 16:03   #19
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Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
We in Kerala already have car free days. There are easily 15 or more of them per year, for whole of the state, and easily 50 for small areas.

We call them "hartals".
Yeah, that is why the state is still green and has enough rains. Kerala govt should get some award for its "green initiatives" such as bandhs, harthals and demolitions. Other states should emulate this model.
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Old 2nd October 2008, 16:03   #20
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Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
We in Kerala already have car free days. There are easily 15 or more of them per year, for whole of the state, and easily 50 for small areas.

We call them "hartals".



Nicely put sir!
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Old 2nd October 2008, 16:26   #21
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If they get the public transport in place, their will be a slow down in car/bikes sales! it makes sense to enforce this rule then!
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Old 2nd October 2008, 20:12   #22
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Hi all,
Don't be so upset. Here in Hyderabad it is already in force for last couple of years. When you want to buy a new vehicle, the road/life tax is 9% for the first car and 12% otherwise. And AFAIK it is only for new cars.
Regarding implementation, at least in Hyderabad, now that the entire records are computerized, it is very easy to find out the vehicles under your ownership with just your PAN number. I think this is what they do.
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Old 2nd October 2008, 21:36   #23
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According to the govt. how many vehicles can a city like Bangalore handle? This proposal is pure hypocrisy. If you ask me - Bangalore ran out of roads several years ago. The govt. had fun collecting huge road tax all these years.

I also would like to find out how much of the life-time tax paid over the last ten years has actually been used for infrastructure development. When they aim to make Bangalore a Singapore - they need to do it in all aspects.

1. First make sure you are utilizing what you earn as tax. I have seen about a dozen flyover projects being executed here where everyone from the local corporator to the Ministers have made/continue to make money. No one involved seems to have a logical explanation as to why a particular flyover/underpass is required.

2. Make sure your traffic police do their job effectively and honestly. I know we can't have a policeman at every corner, but wherever there is one he/she has to be ruthless. And MLAs, Ministers should be kicked out if they try to help one of "their people" get off the hook.

3. Road users should take a lot of blame for what is happening. Lack of roads is not a reason for people to break traffic rules. I can just stand in the corner of my road and shoot (on my camera) 100s of educated morons driving dangerously. BTW some of these even wear a $80 Swissgear back-pack - so they have even been to the other side of the world, maybe even driven there.

4. I work in a place where a bunch of companies have hired out govt. transport buses. I'm happy to be one of the users - I hardly drive during week days. But I also know for a fact it has been a nightmare to deal with this govt. organization. They can't provide us decent buses for everyday commute even though we pay a pretty big amount. Instead they try to push us to hire Volvos which cost about Rs 70 per km.

Mr. Minister I suggest you learn to spell Singapore before you attempt to make Bangalore one.

Last edited by CBlazer : 2nd October 2008 at 21:38.
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Old 3rd October 2008, 02:13   #24
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Originally Posted by ajay99 View Post
Actually the Minister's proposal is a very Reasonable one.
Nothing "IDIOTIC" about it.
Talking about INFRASTRUCTURE, there is a limit to that.
Suppose the total residents of BANGALORE CITY were to have a car each, how can one build the infrastructure ie ,ROADS to accomodate it.this what is called "IDIOTIC" argument
Its is silly. If one can afford a 2nd car they can pay extra for Life tax too, now no one buys 2 cars and uses both at the same time, its not practically possible.
Now then,the people earning can buy a car but what if its for a son or a dad?
Also,People could just get it registered on wife/son/dad's name ect to evade the extra tax, just another loop hole.
Looks like just another means of increasing the annual state income.

Instead of silly short term/quick solutions like this one, The chaps should look at working on a mass transit system that cajoles people into leaving their car/bike in the parking.
I've lived in Delhi for a bit, The metro was an great option for long distances, even some bit of regular travel, i never thought about taking the car and it was darn quick compared too a car.
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Old 3rd October 2008, 06:43   #25
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For the LTT that they charge, they ought to give us good roads!
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Old 3rd October 2008, 08:10   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajay99 View Post
Actually the Minister's proposal is a very Reasonable one.
Nothing "IDIOTIC" about it.
Talking about INFRASTRUCTURE, there is a limit to that.
Suppose the total residents of BANGALORE CITY were to have a car each, how can one build the infrastructure ie ,ROADS to accomodate it.this what is called "IDIOTIC" argument
Nothing Idiotic? It is absolutely clueless and sick proposal. Since you don't live in Karnataka, you may not realise the extent of this foolishness.

1) We already pay the highest LTT in the country. About 12% for <5L, 13% for <10L and 16% for >10L cars. Plus we pay 10% (city tax) on the LTT, that brings it to 13.2%, 14.3% and 17.6% of the invoice. Has it stopped people from buying cars? I don't think the extra LTT will stop people from buying second car, they might just opt for a cheaper car.

2) This is supposed to be a fix for traffic problem. What about people who live outside of Bangalore and don't have traffic problem? If people in my town buy less cars because of extra LTT, how is it solving Bangalore's traffic problem? My town doesn't have a traffic problem if you were wondering.

3) We have 3 vehicles in my family, but at any given time, only one is used. Somehow I haven't picked up the art of driving 3 vehicles simulteneously.

We have a proverb in Kannada that goes "Ettige Jwara, Emmege Bare". Which means if the cow has fever, you give hot iron rod treatment to buffalo. Just because Buffalo has thicker skin than cow. But how does that fix the fever that cow has?

Do they want to fix the real problem? That can be done by better city planning, enforcing traffic rules strictly.

Example:
1) All those traffic police doing fund-raising by checking documents in every street corner, make them catch traffic offenders in every junction, everytime. Right now they just prefer to check documents (which any clerk can do) than do any real police work.

2) Don't let malls come up in every corner, most of them don't have adequete parking facilties, neither can those roads support the shopping traffic. Don't let apartment buildings come up in roads designed for individuals houses. Develop satellite towns, do some planning. Having grown up in Bangalore, I know how Bangalore went to dogs, absolutely no planning.

Instead the minister thinks, "Hmm, Traffic problems, let's raise taxes, the problem will go away."
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Old 3rd October 2008, 10:52   #27
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Not every wants to buy cars but we have to

No personal safety, no public transportation, rude auto drivers
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Old 3rd October 2008, 11:03   #28
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Delhi was also like Bangalore but know they have improved a lot by building sensible and really needed bridges, underpass, good roads and strict traffic police. Metro also helped in controlling the traffic.
People will not stop buying a car even the tax is doublebut govt will have more to consume
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Old 3rd October 2008, 11:10   #29
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What nonsense! And to think of it, there are people who even support such antics which politicians come up with!!

Riju made a very valid point when he said the concerned minister needs to downsize the number of cars he has for his disposal, before he came up with such weird proposals.

People staying in KA are taxed the most, have the most pitiable roads, and are still under the threat of being taxed even further.
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Old 3rd October 2008, 11:24   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aka_iitd View Post
People will not stop buying a car even the tax is doublebut govt will have more to consume
Very true, if a person/family can afford second they can easily afford the extra one-time tax.

However, possible solution can be "More Cars - More Wealth/property tax every year" or "More Cars - Less Tax exemption benefits" It might turn tables as no one will be willing to pay more tax or hand-off with the existing tax benefits one is getting.
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