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Old 8th October 2008, 12:36   #46
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I agree that the design evolution of Indica over the previous generation could have been little more obvious. But whether a new design should evolve/improvise over the previous design or should it be entirly new/radical depends on what the company is trying to accomplish in terms of brand building, changing perceptions, consolidating on the success etc.
Different approaches are taken in case of City and Indica. But not many companies dare to throw out a design which was fairly successful and take different design direction altogether. If the previous design was a failure, it is a different story.

Last edited by Guna : 8th October 2008 at 12:41. Reason: spelling
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Old 8th October 2008, 13:10   #47
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I think that Mr Tata might have a strong commitment to the word 'Indica' - it does have several meanings, and Rather than the car itself, i feel that the name is linked to his dream.

I mean, You want to create a car for india , something that Indians have always wanted , but never gotten. And you think you have the perfect name , Indica. The name might have several meanings at several levels. You think its perfect.

So what you made first as the indica is growing old, So when you create something new , what else would you call it ? I think its natural. If its a pet project, you might think of it more in terms of the name than what it is.

The looks well, They werent broken, and they didnt need fixing. It was , and still is a handsome design. Rather than what most manufacturers do, and do a visual update with the same mechanicals, i think this was better
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Old 8th October 2008, 14:04   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
WHY did Tata give the Vista a near identical profile to the older Indica? Heck, last week, my sister didn't even realise that the bright red car next to us was the new Vista.
Maybe the folks at Tata would like that profile to endure the test of time much like a 911 or our beloved Ambassador. They want it to become a "classic."
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Old 8th October 2008, 14:25   #49
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There is no doubt about the fact that Tata has missed an opportunity here. Why should Tata have changed the design?
  • The design is dated and 10 yrs old. No matter how good looking a car it was to start with, people get used to it and people get bored. Look at the Mitsu Lancer. HM is still recyling slight modifications to the same design. Once the dream car for many, it hardly gets a look these days.( Ok, there are many more 'HM related' issues here,which I will not get into. The point I am making is that Lancer does not get admired for it's looks anymore, because people are seeing the same thing for 10 yrs.)
  • With the MJD as a common factor across the Swift,Palio,Vista (and god knows how many more cars in the future), it becomes a level playing field as far as performance,FE go. Looks would have been a key differentiator. It is an easy matter to beat the Palio in sales, but the market leader Swift will be no pushover.
  • Indian tastes have evolved and more Indians are looking at cars to make a style/status statement. With the gorgeous i20 & the Jazz to compete in this segment, it just got tougher.
  • If anything, a design makeover - a visual move away from the Indica , which has a 'taxi image' would not have hurt Tata. Again, pls don't misunderstand me, nor is my intention to offend anyone. But perceptions are real in the customer's mind. Pls see a note from a member below whose choice of Vista was vetoed by his family because of that.
Why didn't Tata do it. My thoughts:
  • The question was how much time did they have. The Tata-Fiat alliance happened in late 2005/early 2006, but when was Vista envisaged? Even the Palio MJD came only six months back. I suspect that they may have been taken aback by the success of Swift MJD diesel and tried to fast track their plans. May be, the go-to-market from beginning to end was too compressed a timeline?
  • As a company, Tata Motors has been spread a little thin with multiple things happening. There might have been budgetary constraints for development, as well

Last edited by sridharps : 8th October 2008 at 14:27.
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Old 8th October 2008, 14:28   #50
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Did anyone notice the elder brother-younger brother ad for safari and grande in delhi times?
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Old 8th October 2008, 14:29   #51
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I was speaking to the dealer last week and he said that the Vista is not going to be sold for non-private use i.e. you wont be seeing any Vista cabs on the road. Lets see for how long that statement remains true but I am definitely not complaining.
-Ganesh
I already saw one here in Pune with the dreadful yellow plate.
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Old 8th October 2008, 15:07   #52
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@ greenhorn - IMO you might have deduced right. As Tata is quiet passionate about the indian dreams (can be seen from the Nano project) this might be a big reason not to break away from Indica design and the name.
Moreover its an idividual's choice, if you like it buy it otherwise just move ahead to anothe vehicle like Swift or a soon to be launched i20. If V2 could get so many buyers am sure Vista will get plenty!

@ Abhi - Now thats a sad news!
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Old 8th October 2008, 15:38   #53
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TATA knows typical indian mindset really well (should I say till now) thats why Indica outsold nearly all small cars for number of years. But I can't say something similar w.r.t. Vista. God knows why there are not many vista running on road (even in pune, where TATAs have large following) I guess ppl have starting to understanda bit more about driving with style
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Old 8th October 2008, 15:45   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Did anyone notice the elder brother-younger brother ad for safari and grande in delhi times?
Yes I did. It was a dealers' ad. A desperate attempt to promote S. Grande sales by passing it off as Safari's younger brother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sridharps View Post
My thoughts:The question was how much time did they have. The Tata-Fiat alliance happened in late 2005/early 2006, but when was Vista envisaged? Even the Palio MJD came only six months back. I suspect that they may have been taken aback by the success of Swift MJD diesel and tried to fast track their plans. May be, the go-to-market from beginning to end was too compressed a timeline?
The Vista was designed in 2004 buddy! It was originally supposed to be launched in 2007. The decision to follow V2 styling cues was deliberate.

Last edited by directinjection : 8th October 2008 at 15:49.
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Old 8th October 2008, 15:47   #55
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well guys I am writing after reading almost everybody's view. I am just trying to understand what must have gone in discussion between tata's people.
1. it would not have to be a Indica if it doesnot look like indica.it could be any new car launched by tata. the Indica is a brand which sells. you would not discontinue that.
2. like somebody said design of the car is still fresh. it does appeal to you.
3. there is a huge cost involved in changing sheet metal parts of any product, bike car whatever.
4. there is one big example of why not to change the looks too much i.e. look at the example of Zen Estilo and what happened to the name Zen. I am sure there must be hundreds of Fans of original Zen here but would they buy the Zen Estilo. I would say no because..people would not relate to the car. that is not Zen. that is just a car they decided to call zen.

5. OHC still has lot of fans irrespective of all the new variant. had it been a B segment car Honda must have thought about it twice before making drastic changes. but what do you know the japanese have their own calculation of PLC and look what toyota did to QUALIS. there was lot of hue and cry when the production was stopped but currently everybody seems to be happy with the INNOVA.


The Indica vista is an upgrade of Indica which was long due.

that's it.

regards,

MANU
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Old 8th October 2008, 15:59   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msharma_79 View Post
3. there is a huge cost involved in changing sheet metal parts of any product, bike car whatever.

4. there is one big example of why not to change the looks too much i.e. look at the example of Zen Estilo and what happened to the name Zen.
Huge costs for making new tools have been already incured anyway since it is a new body shell.
Zen and Zen Estilo is an extreme example where the total DNA of a car has been changed. By the way I think Zen is a Alto (of certain generation ) and estilo is MR Wagaon R, so originally they were never meant to be the same car.

Last edited by Guna : 8th October 2008 at 16:01.
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Old 8th October 2008, 16:21   #57
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Originally Posted by directinjection View Post
The Vista was designed in 2004 buddy! It was originally supposed to be launched in 2007. The decision to follow V2 styling cues was deliberate.
If the timeline is as you mention, then it must be intentional, i guess.

Quote:
If V2 could get so many buyers am sure Vista will get plenty!
Sure, but Vista is a segment above. When V2 was launched, it had complete monopoly in the diesel hatch segment. Now Swift and i20 would provide tough competition.
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Old 8th October 2008, 16:53   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Well, the dyes for the Vista are entirely new. As is the design. I don't see substantial cost savings here. The only problem is that the all-new design has still taken too much inspiration from the older Indica.

The Vista bears a striking resemblance to the Indica.

Good point. Why not simply Vista? The fact that the new car, however fab, is branded & looks like the older Indica has effectively chalked it off a phenomenal no. of shopping lists. Whether we like to admit it or not, there is a category of customers who simply won't consider a "tata Indica" when looking out for a 5 lakh rupee hatch.
Fully agree to the above. It is VISTA to me and not the Indica. Its just bigger from the outside - only up close does one notice. I've had a similar experience as GTO's!

I have lost a considerable amount of time and hair following up Maruti and my dealer personally over the past 80 days (paid full cash on confused assurances two+ weeks back also). And I am willing to reconsider and put up with the crap Dhingra service (or Autolinks! yay!) because there's a thin line one crosses over into humiliation while waiting for one's Swift.

But yet, no go. The Indica (Vista) is a solid no go - vetoed

Heck, I have support (but not the pocket) for the Bolero VLX (if it was ~6, I'd have bought it!!!
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Old 8th October 2008, 17:21   #59
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This is what Mr Ratan Tata had told a newspaper in April 2004:


"Though there will be a family resemblance to the Indica, the car will look different and will be bigger. The wheel base will be bigger, the seating will be more spacious and the three-box version of the car will have more changes in it than the Indigo has compared to the Indica.........though Tata Motors has the capability to design the car by itself, it is involving IDEA with the design so that the car will not be totally different and will have a visual resemblance to the Indica."

Here's the full report:

The Hindu Business Line : `Indica successor in final stages of design'

The decision to follow the Indica styling was deliberate and taken at the topmost level. I for one see nothing wrong with that.
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Old 8th October 2008, 18:41   #60
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Hi abhi,

> I already saw one here in Pune with the dreadful yellow plate.

And a couple of days back, I saw a yellow plate Palio MJD passing through here.

Could be a real taxi or some wise guy saving some money!
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