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Old 25th October 2008, 23:22   #136
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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Knowing Fiat's management style, I can only imagine the chaos and confusion on the assembly floor esp if they are building Palios and Lineas on the same line.
If Maruti (800 along with Swift and Sx4 or even A-star) ford (ikon/Fiesta) and Hyundai (Santro/i10) the list continuous.... why can't FIAT?
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Old 25th October 2008, 23:40   #137
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Originally Posted by finneyp View Post
Well, it boils down to whether you go by the opinions of majority of public (who don't own a Fiat car) or from the experiences of minority Fiat owners!
Well that's Democracy for you Finney! Like it or not, but in a free society for most people the opinion of the majority matters more than the opinion of the minority.
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Old 25th October 2008, 23:41   #138
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Well, the answer is this. We wanted a FIAT car but the issues never allowed us to have Petra diesel. Not that we are unhappy with Baleno, but then we really liked Petra. We did not buy the car becasue of the issues and problems for which FIAT is responsible and could have performed better.
Kind of supports the below statement.


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Well, it boils down to whether you go by the opinions of majority of public (who don't own a Fiat car) or from the experiences of minority Fiat owners!

Obviously, the opinions of the majority (non-fiat owners) who rather have assumptions without any basis, form the perception!
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Old 26th October 2008, 01:13   #139
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Hope the Global financial situation will not alter Fiat's plan. It has recently postponed Alfa's plan for U.S and cut down China plans from 300,000 to 50,000.
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Old 26th October 2008, 01:25   #140
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Originally Posted by jerish666 View Post
Fiat can even dream to price Linea more than ANHC why because the built quality of Linea is far better than ANHC.More than that Linea have lots of additional features.
Really ? I would wait for that until we can drive both in India. I don't about ANHC but I just happened to drive the new Fit and the build quality is outstanding. For the price, you can't get something built like that from any other manufacturer (not including Fiat). But then, I don't equate build quality with weight.
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Old 26th October 2008, 08:25   #141
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post

I know the technology bit, but then 1248cc wont be enough IMHO. Moreove, the general public will say like this " for this much money,just 1248cc engnie ? ".Dont like this happening. Swift has not told everyone about the true capabilities of modern diesel technology, the CRDi.

Yes its true, cannot comment on performance till test driving is done.
That is right. Until test drive, we should not dismiss a small engine. Even VW and Skoda are planning to launch small and powerful engines in their cars. I just wish Fiat launches the 120 bhp 1.2L MJD (1248cc is 1.2L for me ) just to prove a point to illiterate people
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Old 26th October 2008, 08:29   #142
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Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
Well that's Democracy for you Finney! Like it or not, but in a free society for most people the opinion of the majority matters more than the opinion of the minority.
Off topic. But I could not resist for this one. Majority matters. That is why we have the worst set of politicians.
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Old 26th October 2008, 11:14   #143
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Originally Posted by opendro View Post
That is right. Until test drive, we should not dismiss a small engine. Even VW and Skoda are planning to launch small and powerful engines in their cars. I just wish Fiat launches the 120 bhp 1.2L MJD (1248cc is 1.2L for me ) just to prove a point to illiterate people
I think the max Fiat group could extract from 1248cc was 100 or 104 bhp for Lancia Ypsilon.
The 1598cc 1.6 is available in 120 bhp format.
And the max 1910cc diesel develops is 148 bhp.

My bet for Linea would be this.
1) Linea 1.3 diesel ( 1248cc ) 90 bhp , 200 Nm torque diesel, priced along 6.0-7.5 lakhs, ABS optional on all versions ( standard on high end versions ) and Airbags optional on all version ( standard on high end versions ).

Would fight Fiesta and SX4.

2) Linea 1.6 diesel ( 1598cc ), 120 bhp, 300 Nm torque diesel, priced in 8.0-10.5 lakhs, ABS optional on all lower versions, Airbags optional on all lower versions.

Would deal with Optra Magnum, G3HC, Lancer Cedia, Verna diesel.

3) Linea 1.9 diesel ( 1910cc ), 148 bhp, 305 Nm torque, priced in 11.0-13.5 lakhs, ABS and Airbags standard on all versions.

Would fight with Corolla Altis and Civic, along with Laura and Jetta. Laura, Jetta and Corolla Altis diesel ( if at all it comes with 1.4 100 bhp diesel ) will have no chance to stand against this car.

This would be ideal for Fiat to cover from Fiesta to Laura. They have a capable machine that has got space, looks everything to do this from C to D segment.
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Old 26th October 2008, 11:42   #144
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
I think the max Fiat group could extract from 1248cc was 100 or 104 bhp for Lancia Ypsilon.
The 1598cc 1.6 is available in 120 bhp format.
And the max 1910cc diesel develops is 148 bhp.

My bet for Linea would be this.
1) Linea 1.3 diesel ( 1248cc ) 90 bhp , 200 Nm torque diesel, priced along 6.0-7.5 lakhs, ABS optional on all versions ( standard on high end versions ) and Airbags optional on all version ( standard on high end versions ).

Would fight Fiesta and SX4.

2) Linea 1.6 diesel ( 1598cc ), 120 bhp, 300 Nm torque diesel, priced in 8.0-10.5 lakhs, ABS optional on all lower versions, Airbags optional on all lower versions.

Would deal with Optra Magnum, G3HC, Lancer Cedia, Verna diesel.

3) Linea 1.9 diesel ( 1910cc ), 148 bhp, 305 Nm torque, priced in 11.0-13.5 lakhs, ABS and Airbags standard on all versions.

Would fight with Corolla Altis and Civic, along with Laura and Jetta. Laura, Jetta and Corolla Altis diesel ( if at all it comes with 1.4 100 bhp diesel ) will have no chance to stand against this car.

This would be ideal for Fiat to cover from Fiesta to Laura. They have a capable machine that has got space, looks everything to do this from C to D segment.

I agree with you on except for 1.6 diesel
1.3 with tag - 6 - 7.5 lac &
1.9 with the tag 8 -10
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Old 26th October 2008, 11:58   #145
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This would be ideal for Fiat to cover from Fiesta to Laura. They have a capable machine that has got space, looks everything to do this from C to D segment.[/quote]

I doubt Fiat will pursue such a pricing strategy, simply because in most societies all over the world, A car is also the most obvious status symbol.
IMO, No person would like to pay 13.5 lakhs for a car, and then see his neighbour driving an almost identical car for 7 lakhs.
The maximum price difference between the lowest and highest variant of any car can be a maximum of 20-25% of the base price.
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Old 26th October 2008, 12:30   #146
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Originally Posted by Dine View Post
1.3 with tag - 6 - 7.5 lac &
1.9 with the tag 8 -10
Humn!! Linea 90bhp 1.3 more features competing with DZire 75bhp. And 1.9 Linea competing with Fabia 1.4. Fiat Linea has become a joke for everybody.

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Originally Posted by carcoll View Post
I doubt Fiat will pursue such a pricing strategy, simply because in most societies all over the world, A car is also the most obvious status symbol.
IMO, No person would like to pay 13.5 lakhs for a car, and then see his neighbour driving an almost identical car for 7 lakhs.
I would agree with you that most people think like that. But I would always love to own a car that is underestimated by others, but that can bowl them with performance and features. So, for me a top end Linea 13L on road with 1.6L JTD dualogic (dreaming!!), without any badge would be a perfect one.
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Old 26th October 2008, 14:22   #147
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I highly doubt that the 1.3 Linea will start from 6.0 to 7.5 Lakhs.
That's just to low a price for such a large car. I think it should start more from 7.5 Lakhs.
Especially when the Linea's main competitors will be SX4 & Honda City, which both start of in that price range.
FIAT can differentiate itself by offering more technological goodies in their car like Blue & Me & Airbags standard on all versions. With the higher version getting Curtain Airbags and Auto Wipers & Lights.
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Old 26th October 2008, 14:42   #148
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Originally Posted by carcoll View Post
I doubt Fiat will pursue such a pricing strategy, simply because in most societies all over the world, A car is also the most obvious status symbol.
IMO, No person would like to pay 13.5 lakhs for a car, and then see his neighbour driving an almost identical car for 7 lakhs.
The maximum price difference between the lowest and highest variant of any car can be a maximum of 20-25% of the base price.
I second that, I just don't see this happening in our country. Would be impossible to sell a vehicle (even with different specs) if there is such a high variation in the price, no one would want to buy the higher spec vehicle just because you would have someone else driving it and having bought it at a much much lower price. Also in our country a car is still a status symbol expecially on the road (wonder when this mindset might change).
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Old 26th October 2008, 15:07   #149
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
It must not be over 7.5 lakhs, IMHO.
Why?

Quote:
This way its a sure shot that Linea will beat G3HC efficiently in almost every parameter of the car. And that is what I want. I want Fiat Linea to show Honda how to deliver value to Indian customers.
If the features mentioned in this thread do come with the car then I believe the Petrol Dynamic and Emotion variants will compete with SX4, G3HC, Verna and Fiesta petrols. Maybe the MJD Dynamic and Emotion will be at a slight premium over the G3HC but with the extra features and a diesel engine, the car will be VFM compared to the city.

I don't understand why you think the car has to have a diesel engine with more features at a lesser price to deliver value against the G3HC. You are heading for a disappointment if you expect that. Neither Fiat nor any other company can do what you are expecting.

Having said that, no matter what the features and price, the Linea will never pose a challenge to the City.

Quote:
Tata will not allow the Linea to be sold through their dealerships
Quote:
I meant what is there in bold letters above.
What makes you think of that? This is news to all of us!

Quote:
Thats value and almost a 100% confirmation that this car can beat G3HC effortlessly. Nothing else. I want Hyundai and Honda to learn from FIAT about value. This is the only car now that can do this. One car that partially did this was SX4.
Would a Emotion+ Petrol Linea priced about Rs.50K less more then City be VFM for you?

Would a Emotion+ Linea MJD priced at a premium of about Rs.50K over the Civic V be VFM for you?

To me it would. The car is Civic sized with a diesel engine and more features then you see in a Honda Accord. That's the way I would see it. If thats not VFM, I don't know what is. The closest car to the Emotion+ in terms of features would be the Laura L&K and we all know that car costs almost 2 million bucks!

Quote:
1248cc wont be enough IMHO. Moreove, the general public will say like this " for this much money,just 1248cc engnie ? ".Dont like this happening.
How many car owners know the size of their cars engines? I have never seen a prospective Indian car buyer, irrespective of the segment he is looking to buy a car in, ask the salesperson about the size of the engine. For most people, if the car is driveable it's good. Slight sluggishness for 2kmpl more is definately acceptable. Most Linea's will be chauffer driven.

I don't know why these points are raised when it comes to Ford, GM, Fiat and not when it comes to Honda? The Fiesta 1.4 came in, and we had people talking about the car being sluggish. Why not the same questions for the 77bhp NHC? When it came to Honda's NHC the engine was a marvel, when it comes to GM, Ford, Fiat they are fooling Indians by launching 77-80bhp cars for 8-9 lacs.

Quite a few people seem to be waiting for the Linea to fail. If the features mentioned in this thread are actually being considered by Fiat then I hope the Linea is a blockbuster success and Fiat manages to keep the car a success at the sales charts. It will be good for Indian car buyers if the Linea succeeds. A Emotion+ MJD at about 11.5-13.5 lacs would force other car manufacturer's to give more features at more realistic prices to us. The SX4 forced Honda and Ford to give us 2 Airbags and ABS. The Linea with 6 airbags, blue&me, follow me /coming home lights, ASR blah blah will force other companies to do the same. For the sake of the forever shortcharged Indian customer who pays premium prices for cars with basic features, I hope the Linea dominates the C and C+ segments.

Disclaimer: All of the above is assuming the car comes with the features and engines mentioned in this thread.

Last edited by amit : 26th October 2008 at 15:09.
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Old 26th October 2008, 15:26   #150
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Originally Posted by amit View Post

How many car owners know the size of their cars engines? I have never seen a prospective Indian car buyer, irrespective of the segment he is looking to buy a car in, ask the salesperson about the size of the engine. For most people, if the car is driveable it's good. Slight sluggishness for 2kmpl more is definately acceptable. Most Linea's will be chauffer driven.
IMO, a lot of people do. When the Matiz was launched with 800cc and near identical power/torque as Zen/Santro with 1000cc engines, many people shied away saying - oh this has a 800cc engine just like the 800. Never mind the 800cc engine of 800 produced 37bhp to 50+bhp of Matiz, and never mind the Matiz was more fuel efficient than Santro and Zen. A lot of people just look at simple stats of the car like 'size' (external dimensions) and 'engine size' and mileage, unfortunately. They don't see if the so called bigger car is smaller on the inside, less legroom, less boot space and so on ...
Of course, people are getting more aware and all the TV and print media does feed them more info which helps -so, I guess we are making progress there.

Last edited by lancer_rit : 26th October 2008 at 15:27.
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