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Old 26th October 2008, 20:40   #16
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Originally Posted by Parm View Post
election time in india means a big business for diesel vehicle like scorpio, safari, tavera, MM jeeps for campaigning!

please install atleast gear locks for your vehicles safety!
A gear lock is only a visual deterrent for an amateur thief. Any half decent car thief can remove one without much problem so please stop going on about them as if they are the ultimate security device. At maximum it will take a few minutes to remove (probably less than a minute for a skilled thief).

I would be tempted to add a few such physical devices, a gear lock, steering wheel disc and a wheel clamp might add another few minutes and the thief might move on to the next vehicle which does not have all these devices fitted.

Last edited by bigman : 26th October 2008 at 20:42.
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Old 26th October 2008, 22:24   #17
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A gear lock is only a visual deterrent for an amateur thief. Any half decent car thief can remove one without much problem so please stop going on about them as if they are the ultimate security device. At maximum it will take a few minutes to remove (probably less than a minute for a skilled thief).

I would be tempted to add a few such physical devices, a gear lock, steering wheel disc and a wheel clamp might add another few minutes and the thief might move on to the next vehicle which does not have all these devices fitted.
would you like to demonstrate how to open/remove gear lock in few minutes so that i can stop advertising gear and steering locks?
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Old 27th October 2008, 02:12   #18
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would you like to demonstrate how to open/remove gear lock in few minutes so that i can stop advertising gear and steering locks?
Google the info. Simple brute force is enough to remove some of these so called security devices, you might damage the car interior but does a thief care ? Don't let the retailers and distributors fool you with their sales patter, these devices are not as secure as they are made out to be.

When steering locks (the big discs that cover the whole of the wheel) first came out in europe the distributors made a small fortune preying on peoples fears. Soon the car magazines began to test them and some lasted less than 30 seconds of brute force. Sales soon trickled down. I think the so called top dog in the market was just about able to last 1 minute.

These cheap generic "made in china" type gear locks you get in India would not even last 30 seconds. A shame those at indian automags do not have the nouse to test some of these so called security devices.
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Old 27th October 2008, 02:22   #19
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So is there an effective deterrent at all?
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Old 27th October 2008, 02:23   #20
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Ummm ok bigman. Disparaging everything is fine, as long as you know better. So why do not you suggest what you use for your car's safety instead of say a gear lock or a pedal lock etc?

The point here is not to prove how you can break into a secured car. Anything and everything can be broken into. Heck, even if you put two armed sentries to man the car even they can be put to sleep by a determined person if the issue is to prove a point.

Some of the good quality gear locks are bolted into the chassis (and take some time to install) and are made of high tensile steel. An auto mag out to prove that it can be broken will get all the ammo to break it and maybe still take 30 seconds or more. However in real life scenario a car thief most probably won't roam around with heavy duty steel cutter etc. (and they create a racket with their motor noise which thieves loathe). Chances are good that an opportunist thief (thats what most of them are) will move on to search for an easier target once he realizes that he needs to break into the central locking and then has to somehow figure out how to overcome a high quality gear lock.

I guess you got what I mean. Its not about proving points but all about practicality.

Last edited by Zappo : 27th October 2008 at 02:25.
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Old 27th October 2008, 03:02   #21
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I am not disparaging everything but pointing out not to rely solely on so called gear locks. Parm is the one who bought up gear locks as if they would have saved this car being stolen.

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However in real life scenario a car thief most probably won't roam around with heavy duty steel cutter etc However in real life scenario a car thief most probably won't roam around with heavy duty steel cutter etc
The worrying part is that the automag testers did not use tools but brute force (ie physical power) to overcome the so called locks. An amateur may be tempted to carry steel cutters but pro's do not like to attract attention and will have other means to overcome such locks.

The steering to pedal lock is the worst lock and I have seen 14 year old kids remove one without even breaking into a sweat.

Quote:
Some of the good quality gear locks are bolted into the chassis (and take some time to install) and are made of high tensile steel
Thats exactly the sort of sales blurb gullible people fall for. A car takes a while to assemble using quality components, hardly makes it secure.

Quote:
I guess you got what I mean. Its not about proving points but all about practicality.
I understand what you are saying but nothing wrong with pointing out to others not to think these so called gear locks are any better than the bog standard door lock on their car.

I would use a number of devices even a gear lock. Have a gear lock, steering lock and have a visible wheel clamp (use a quality padlock on the wheel clamp not one bought off a street hawker for 20RS). Even a pro thief likes the easy life. They will move on to another target rather than having to navigate past 3 or 4 security devices.

One of my old neighbours in England was quite an accomplished car thief, and from talking to him I learnt quite a bit from him. You would be surprised at what he was capable of. Once a women was locked out of her Rover car and he offered to get into the car. He used a Ford key to open the Rover without any lock damage in less than a minute. The only time I ever saw him flummoxed was when a friend asked him to try and overcome his car alarm system (this was no cheap nippon system) it cost in excess of £500 for just the alarm and that was nearly 15 years ago. He got into the car ok but could no disarm the alarm due to some sort of hidden backup battery which could power the siren even if the main battery was removed. He did say that if he got some practice then maybe he could learn how to overcome that as well.

Last edited by bigman : 27th October 2008 at 03:08.
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Old 27th October 2008, 03:11   #22
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So is there an effective deterrent at all?
No not really just get as many devices as you can, steering lock, gear lock, wheel clamp and a decent alarm (not some cheap piece of chinese junk which could not protect a pedal bike let alone a car).

The idea is to make your car unattractive to the thief so he moves on to another target.
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Old 27th October 2008, 03:27   #23
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One of my old neighbours in England was quite an accomplished car thief, and from talking to him I learnt quite a bit from him.
............ He did say that if he got some practice then maybe he could learn how to overcome that as well.
Whoa man!
Is your friend still a car thief? Or has he quit stealing for now? Lol...
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Old 27th October 2008, 03:52   #24
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Originally Posted by doctorkats View Post
Whoa man!
Is your friend still a car thief? Or has he quit stealing for now? Lol...
Not really seen him for a few years. The police did eventually catch up with him (although he managed to give them the slip on a few occassion including one time when he jumped from a 1st floor window (about 14ft drop)) and he spent a year or so in her majestys prison(s). His family eventually moved out the area as they were ashamed of his behaviour.

Apart from that he was a great lad, his stealing habbit started at secondary school when a teacher asked him to put some books in his car and trusted him with his car keys. He drove off in the car and dumped it .
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Old 27th October 2008, 12:22   #25
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Thank you guys for your responses.
As far as the gear lock is concerned, he was planning to get one next week.(Too late I guess!!)

Well, he is trying his best to put as much pressure as possible. Will post the details as and when the case is solved or closed.

Haven't spoken to him lately, about insurance, I guess, it obviously won't pay the full amount. The car was about 2 months old, so they will deduct the depreciation. Plus the amount he spent on the claddings, grill and ICE won't be paid. So all in all, even if insurance pays up he still stands to loose an amount close to 1Lakh.

I would be really thankful if fellow members could enlighten me on the insurance thing and whether what all I mentioned here is correct(Regarding the deduction of cost of accessories). I believe there is a small amount in the premium we pay under the accessories head, hence the doubt.
The insurance would pay the full amount. There should not be any depriciation. They would only charge a filing fee that was Rs. 500 in our case.

It does not matter whether the car is 1 month or 100 month old. They would have to pay the entire IDV amount. Basically that's the amount the vehicle has been insured for. They would try and say that there would be some depriciation. Just shout at them and tell them you know that it's not the case.

If you want to, you can also search the court's ruling that said the insurance company needs to pay the complete amount in case of a untracable lost vehicle. Even telling them that you know would make them pay the entire amount.
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Old 27th October 2008, 14:45   #26
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@bigman, my brothers Indica was prevented from being driven away due to one of this "bolted gear locks" as the gear was in reverse and he had the whole night to himself (no vehicle alarm system).

He broke the OEM steering lock and opened up the wires inside too, but finally had to let it go and take away only some soft toys in the car.

Now I am not saying thats its the ultimate in car security but it does prevent thefts, prevent being the keyword.

The thief also didnt leave any of his certificates, so can't say about his expertise.
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Old 27th October 2008, 16:19   #27
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@bigman, my brothers Indica was prevented from being driven away due to one of this "bolted gear locks" as the gear was in reverse and he had the whole night to himself (no vehicle alarm system).

He broke the OEM steering lock and opened up the wires inside too, but finally had to let it go and take away only some soft toys in the car.

Now I am not saying thats its the ultimate in car security but it does prevent thefts, prevent being the keyword.

The thief also didnt leave any of his certificates, so can't say about his expertise.
Probably just a village idiot or druggie then please send me one of these gear locks to England and I will get it fitted and ask the local kids to breach it and post the results on the forum/youtube. If the manufacture has faith in their product they will supply one for free for real testing.

Last edited by bigman : 27th October 2008 at 16:22.
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Old 27th October 2008, 16:47   #28
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I think none of our Indian car jackers are IIT grads or even college grads, they are typically school dropouts, junkies looking for some quick money. No doubt stealing cars is an organized crime and thiefs are getting intelligent day by day, but even a professional thief would think twice if not thrice before attempting to steal a car which has a physical gear lock, because that 30-60 secs to break the lock might make a big difference to him.

Without a doubt, any lock can be broken, but if you think from a thiefs POV, why take that 30 secs risk and get caught, when you can find hundreds of other cars without the additional gear lock.
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Old 27th October 2008, 16:55   #29
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I think none of our Indian car jackers are IIT grads or even college grads, they are typically school dropouts, junkies looking for some quick money. No doubt stealing cars is an organized crime and thiefs are getting intelligent day by day, but even a professional thief would think twice if not thrice before attempting to steal a car which has a physical gear lock, because that 30-60 secs to break the lock might make a big difference to him.

Without a doubt, any lock can be broken, but if you think from a thiefs POV, why take that 30 secs risk and get caught, when you can find hundreds of other cars without the additional gear lock.
30 seconds is hardly a long period. Yes if the device(s) could withstand say 4/5 minutes then yes it sure would make a difference. When you have been told to steal a Black Scorpio you are hardly going to be put off by a poxy gear lock. You can steal the car get your money and feed your habbit or spend all day looking for cars.

There must be a few auto journalists on these forums so come on please test these gear locks and let the public know that they are not the Fort Knox type security some people think they are.

Anyhow thanks to me and a few others this thread has gone off topic so this will be my last post.

I wish the owner all the luck in getting his/her car back or the insurance money.
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Old 27th October 2008, 19:13   #30
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Hi Bigman,

Of course, any anti-theft security measure can be bypassed:

- I can park my car inside the gate, but the lock can be broken.

- I can have the building security watch over my cars, but he can be bribed. Or fall off to sleep

- I can have the most high-tech security system installed. And a determined thief will tow my car away.

The key is to make things as difficult as possible for the chor. So he goes looking for an easier target.

A previous post of mine:

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I remember a time that someone messed with the steering grip lock on my Jeep by putting chewing gum + matchsticks in the keyhole (way back in college. Primary suspect = Girl's ex-boyfriend ). I had to get a hold of a couple of mechanics from Santacruz in the middle of the night. And despite their pulling, shoving etc., they weren't able to free the steering. Finally, a welder had to cut the lock.
With time, effort & technology, any anti-theft device can be bypassed. However, the average Indian car thief is not as tech-savvy as his western counterpart. There is the one of some high-end euro marque whose demo car got flicked. Apparently, the demo car had some ground-breaking anti-theft security measures.

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One of my old neighbours in England was quite an accomplished car thief, and from talking to him I learnt quite a bit from him.
Remind me never to tell you where I park my cars!
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