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Old 11th November 2011, 16:44   #301
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

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the thing i hate most about a diesel- the hard clutch, get a leg pain everyday
I have experienced two really horrible clutches: hard and short-stroke to the extent that driving was really difficult. One was petrol, the other diesel. I have not experienced hard clutches in any other diesel (but only drove a handful). It may be lack of experience on my part, but I don't know why there is an idea that diesel-car clutches must be hard?

My Swift Diesel has a sweet, gentle clutch. Combined with the ECU making it quite difficult to stall, it makes it a very easy car to drive. Probably the most forgiving that I have known.
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Old 11th November 2011, 16:53   #302
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

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Originally Posted by wildsdi5530 View Post
Petrol vs diesel wars have been going on for a long time now. I remember my uncle cribbing about it when petrol was 26/- and diesel was 15/-. But back then purchacing power was not as present days and diesel was not abused.
Im not sure what you mean by "abused". Are you talking about the prevalent subsidy that makes diesel cheaper? If so, what about the extremely heavy tax loading on fuel? Isn't that the government abusing the power by taxing the middle class into oblivion? The govt could easily arrest oil company losses by simply lowering their taxation on fuel... both petrol and diesel. Somehow I suspect it would make less of a difference to our ' economy than it would to our fat-cat politicians' swiss bank accounts.

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Only people who really has an advantage bought diesel. Even now cars which run >3000kms per month will find diesel better, but the city dwellers who drive <20Kms a day, are just enriching the govt. and car companies by buying diesel cars. They will never recover the 1L premium they pay, not to mention additional costs of service.
Your figures are off. I drive my diesel about 1500 km a month and my savings are huge. I've owned by Swift-D for exactly 36 months and by my calculations, I more than made up the price-difference between the Swift-D and Swift-P in 16 months. Also, you seem to ignore the joy of driving the new generation diesels, which are a hell of a lot more fun to drive than their petrol counterparts. Just ask any diesel Swift, i20, Punto, Ritz or i10 owner. Joy has it's own monetary value.


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And the thing i hate most about a diesel- the hard clutch, get a leg pain everyday, wonder how people drive diesel cars in the city with their traffic jams.
Again... my Swift-D has done 43,000 km and the clutch is buttery smooth. I wasn't aware of any equation between diesel cars and hard clutches when talking about modern-day diesels.

Last edited by ghostrider : 11th November 2011 at 16:58.
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Old 11th November 2011, 18:38   #303
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

I cant understand this statement - in what way are Diesel car owners abusing anyone or anything?

You appear to be a rather well heeled bloke - being able to drive around like you do, in a petrol vehicle. Good for you but please dont make blanket statements of this kind about the regular joe Diesel car owners if you dont mind.

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But back then purchacing power was not as present days and diesel was not abused. Only people who really has an advantage bought diesel.

I drive a ford figo tdci about 130 kms a day and 100 kms on Sundays. A 2000 km weekend trip every month for which I use the Honda city.
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Old 11th November 2011, 18:43   #304
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

I am not sure if deregulating diesel prices is a good option. Because that would lead to inflation.Every product gets costlier and we should bare the brunt again.
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Old 12th November 2011, 07:00   #305
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

end of the day whichever way one turns it is the salaried classes that bear the entire brunt of all this nonsense.
the middle class are beautifully sandwiched between the super corrupt, super rich and of course the mining goons, real estate demons and nasty politicos at the upper end and the poor uneducated masses below.
the squeeze is on - i wonder just how much pressure the middle classes can take in terms of having the life's breath squeezed out of them bit by bit?
Bangalore must be one of the most expensive cities to live in, by any standards - food, acco, fuel, vehicle prices, general cost of living, taxes, excise, cess and what have you? add this to the pathetic lack of basic infrastructure and frankly all that this city has going for it is the "cosmopolitan quality" of life overall and the excellent weather. Nothing else really!

If either Diesel price goes up OR if they introduce Diesel Cess on private vehicles, then thats going to be just one more nail in an already over nailed coffin.
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Old 12th November 2011, 07:03   #306
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

regular bread in the UK is the same as Chapatis. Phulkas, Rotis and Parathas here in "Namma Ooru" - "native unleavened flat breads".

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Originally Posted by man_and_machine View Post
he..he...bread was an example, you can substitute it with any thing else that is a food commodity (from the item considered for basic inflation accounting). The premise is the basic comparison on cost of essential goods (including fuel).'

Hey, and by the way the figures are from Germany (UK is still not on Euro :-) )
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Old 12th November 2011, 09:30   #307
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

@ghostrider; By abused, I mean the people who buy diesel cars and drive <30kms a day. It's not rare to find used 3 year old diesels with less than 30K kms on the odo. And taxes are here to stay and going up. so is inflation. There could have been more transparency though.
New generation diesels are much better than old ones, but they still need a heavy duty clutch and have a narrow power band (~1500-4500rpm, i guess). Not sure if there is such a thing as clutch booster. But if you take a brand new petrol and diesel car of the same make and model, is the clutch not harder and the engine noisier?
Also have you added depriciation to the car in your calculations?
@ shankar.Balan; I'm a doctor and have to travel around various hospitals in Tirunelveli and Kanyakumari, so travel is a necessity. I spend half my earnings on fuel, service and car loan. I cannot afford to do the same on a petrol car. The monthly trips have to be in the petrol car as my wife hates to drive diesel. Agree with you on the crunch, but I also feel that price correction is not something we can avoid indefinitely.

Last edited by wildsdi5530 : 12th November 2011 at 09:35.
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Old 20th December 2011, 14:40   #308
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Does the subsidy removal in diesel coming as earlier than expected or is it just only in paper again!

"India Aims to Subsidize Diesel Only for the Poor .
India’s minister of state for petroleum and natural gas R.P.N. Singh announced December 12 that any scheme for decontrolling diesel fuel and liquefied petroleum gas must include a provision for subsidizing relatively poor consumers. "

Cheers!

See Page 4 of attachment for details.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf dfn20111219.pdf (2.11 MB, 1911 views)

Last edited by volkman10 : 20th December 2011 at 14:41.
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Old 20th December 2011, 18:37   #309
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

@volkman: the key word is 'relatively'. Relative to whom? the State transport corps? or the Indian railways? or the armed forces? or the private bus operaters? or lorry mafia? or common man.
My guess, the common man.
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Old 20th December 2011, 19:28   #310
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Taxes, Subsidies, Diesel & petrol prices, fuel quality, adulteration, short metering, terrible roads & infrastructure, terrible public transport, corrupt & incompetent Road transport authorities and Police, strikes, jathas and riots etc. This is the reality for the common man.

Most of the fuel we use is substandard and most of it wasted because of the terrible transport infrastructure. Our cars take a beating from the roads and poor fuel quality. We the people are milked by every silly rule made by the govt.

Price per se is not the issue. There is no coherent policy for smooth and efficient transport in the country. Utilisation of funds collected is a joke. We need a Common sense approach to resolve the transport issue. Unfortunately, this seems to be in short supply.

Last edited by basky : 20th December 2011 at 19:30.
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Old 20th December 2011, 20:08   #311
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Does the subsidy removal in diesel coming as earlier than expected or is it just only in paper again!

"India Aims to Subsidize Diesel Only for the Poor .
India’s minister of state for petroleum and natural gas R.P.N. Singh announced December 12 that any scheme for decontrolling diesel fuel and liquefied petroleum gas must include a provision for subsidizing relatively poor consumers. "
How does R.P.N. Singh defines poor. A person making Rs. 32 a day. How can he even own a car when he makes a mere Rs. 32.
Or are they going to have a income bracket. People who have income below this will get subsidy and others wont.
Whatever policy they will introduce it will eventually backfire on them. Opposition and others will be behind them for a roll back just as FDI in retail.
Congress has been in power for 2 successive time and eventually no ones sees it coming back in power for 3rd time. So all Congress minister could do is make a mockery of themselves as they have made enough black money for themselves in the 2 terms of Lok Sabha.
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Old 24th January 2012, 17:30   #312
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Just saw this new in Times Of india. However, I dont think this is going to be a reality anytime soon.
RBI asks government to deregulate diesel price - The Times of India
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Old 25th January 2012, 18:40   #313
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Saw an article on economic times ,it basically talks about doubling the tax on larger capacity >1400 cc diesel engine cars to Rs 1.6 lacs instead Rs 80,000 recommended by Planning Commission's Kirit Parikh
CSE calls for Rs 1.62 lakh extra tax on big diesel cars - The Economic Times
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Old 25th January 2012, 21:30   #314
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Default Diesel cars guzzling 40% of segment's fuel

Trashing industry contention that diesel use by cars is very low, the Centre for Science and Environment (CSE) Wednesday said 40 percent of the total fuel used in the car segment in the country is diesel.

Also, for the first-time ever, bigger diesel cars - the SUVs - are selling more and there is no slowdown in dieselisation.

Increased use of diesel by cars means enhanced public health risks. It also means greater revenue losses due to the under-priced and under-taxed fuel -- with each litre of petrol replaced by diesel to run a car, the excise earnings of the government dropped seven times, the CSE said.

"The automobile industry is trying hard to prove that cars and SUVs are very small users of diesel, so that it can block the growing demand to put higher taxes on diesel cars to offset the revenue losses and cut public health risk," she said.

The analysis says cheap diesel is pushing market towards bigger cars that guzzle more diesel. "Petrol car sales are higher in small car segment - 87 percent of petrol cars are below 1200 cc -- while 40 percent of the diesel cars are above 1500 cc," it said.

There are 24 diesel car models in the engine size class range of less than 1,400 cc; 42 models in the range 1,401-2,000 cc; and 61 models in the class above 2,000 cc engines. This shows how more models are proliferating in the big car and SUV segments, the report said.

"If the new diesel car fleet to roll between 2009 and 2015 were to pay the same amount of excise as the petrol car fleet, the potential excise revenue from the lifetime fuel use can be as high as Rs.100,000 crore," Roychowdhury said.

"Present revenue loss due to diesel subsidy is Rs.86,000 crore," she added.

The CSE said it analysis showed the industry is playing with data to confuse and obfuscate.

"The new number game says diesel cars, SUVs and taxis use only 5 percent of total diesel used - cars use 0.6 percent while a committee chaired by Kirit Parikh found it to be 15 percent," she said.

The CSE has written to Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee demanding additional tax on diesel cars to reduce public revenue losses and public health costs.

The Centre for Science and Environment today demanded an additional duty of up to Rs 1.62 lakh on big diesel cars to prevent the misuse of subsidised fuel for luxury.

'India will pay a heavy price': Diesel cars guzzling 40% of segment's fuel, says study - The Times of India

Last edited by SunilM : 25th January 2012 at 21:31.
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Old 25th January 2012, 23:01   #315
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Default Re: Diesel cars guzzling 40% of segment's fuel

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Originally Posted by SunilM View Post
Increased use of diesel by cars means enhanced public health risks.
Can you elaborate on the above point?
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