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Old 7th May 2012, 11:34   #541
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

@motomaverick; Yes oil is down but then so is the rupee. The nett result is zilch. 10% drop in oil and a 10% drop in the rupee offset each other.
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Old 7th May 2012, 13:22   #542
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

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@motomaverick; Yes oil is down but then so is the rupee. The nett result is zilch. 10% drop in oil and a 10% drop in the rupee offset each other.
Exactly! Its like this - Rs.100 worth of Oil is cheaper by Rs.10 but your old Rs.100 can now buy oil only worth Rs.90!

And what happened to color coding the diesel sold at retail pumps? UK uses blue for retail and red for commercial & agricultural purposes! Its just so simple. Every time a UK cop catches hold of a vehicle, even if every piece of paperwork is right, he won't let go until he pulls up a bit of diesel to check whether its Red or Blue! Shouldn't something like that be the basis of deciding how much price hike is needed and whats the proportion across sectors?
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Old 7th May 2012, 14:29   #543
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

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coding the diesel sold at retail pumps? UK uses blue for retail and red for commercial & agricultural purposes! Its just so simple. Every time a UK cop catches hold of a vehicle, even if every piece of paperwork is right, he won't let go until he pulls up a bit of diesel to check whether its Red or Blue! Shouldn't something like that be the basis of deciding how much price hike is needed and whats the proportion across sectors?
This means, setting up another supply chain starting from storage at refineries to dispensers. Does not sound likely!
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Old 7th May 2012, 16:33   #544
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

I know. But one has to make a beginning somewhere. How long can they use this as an excuse? And besides building roads, power plants etc, the government really needs to understand that infrastructure means a lot more!
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Old 7th May 2012, 17:11   #545
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

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And what happened to color coding the diesel sold at retail pumps? UK uses blue for retail and red for commercial & agricultural purposes!
Hello Nilesh,

That is just a brilliant idea.

After reading your post, I searched about Red & Blue Diesel in UK & it is really astonishing, yet so simple.
ON searching on internet, I found the following:
In UK, Diesel retailed in filling stations is sold in its natural bluish colour and is subject so similar levels of duty as Petrol.
Red diesel is the same diesel with a dye added and supplied direct for use in non road use, ie agriculture, plant hire etc. The level of duty payable is much reduced. The dye is added to differentiate the two, and to show illegal use in roadside checks by VOSA.
Any Road Haulier or Diesel Car user found to be using red diesel for normal road use are fined heavily and in the case of hauliers, they run the risk of losing their operator's licence.

It is absolutely amazing to see how UK has implemented Rationalization of Diesel Prices so that commercial use of Diesel is restricted.

I wonder whether something like this is possible in India? Or it will give rise to another wide door of corruption & bribes?

The different colors of Diesel are possible due to Fuel Dyes: Fuel dyes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia & it is used in many Countries.

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Old 7th May 2012, 20:03   #546
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

We are dyeing Kerosene BLUE (to detect adulteration in diesel), so why not Red for Diesel.

The catch is that the the red diesel is for non transportation use, hence all truckers and bus companies will be out of the subsidy, and that is what the Government wants to avoid.
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Old 8th May 2012, 01:37   #547
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Fuel dyes are a brilliant solution. UK has a highly developed fuel management system and thus they are able to channel accordingly. I feel we in India can replicate the same here if we have the right governance. But that remains a distant dream as the opposition will fight any proposed increase in diesel prices. So make hay while the sun shines!

Cheers!
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Old 8th May 2012, 12:00   #548
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

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We are dyeing Kerosene BLUE (to detect adulteration in diesel), so why not Red for Diesel.
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Fuel dyes are a brilliant solution. UK has a highly developed fuel management system and thus they are able to channel accordingly. I feel we in India can replicate the same here if we have the right governance.
Hello Ajoy & Rohan,

Yes. Fuel Dyes is a brilliant solution. We can customize its implementation in India like passsenger cars, luxury buses, mobile tower's generators, etc should buy Diesel that is not subsidized. For other uses Diesel can be subsidized.

But this implementation in India, I feel will give further rise to corruption & under-reporting. Anyone who is caught using the subsidized Diesel, which is not meant for him, will just have to flash a Rs. 100 / 500 note & everyone will be happy.

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Old 8th May 2012, 12:54   #549
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

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But this implementation in India, I feel will give further rise to corruption & under-reporting. Anyone who is caught using the subsidized Diesel, which is not meant for him, will just have to flash a Rs. 100 / 500 note & everyone will be happy.

Thanks,
Thats so true Jignesh. Its implementation and will to improve the state of affairs which is killing us. Even as it is our systems are one of the best - if followed properly

Probably, thats the reason Govt wants to do away with it completely. Not leaving any chance - but that said, is it not contradicting to the vested interests somewhere?

If implemented the way its done in UK, we can avoid unnecessarily fining the transport and agri sector. But...but...but...
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Old 8th May 2012, 13:11   #550
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

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Originally Posted by Jignesh View Post
But this implementation in India, I feel will give further rise to corruption & under-reporting. Anyone who is caught using the subsidized Diesel, which is not meant for him, will just have to flash a Rs. 100 / 500 note & everyone will be happy.
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If implemented the way its done in UK, we can avoid unnecessarily fining the transport and agri sector. But...but...but...
The fuel dyes will not work here. After a point every personal vehicle also will have either have red diesel or a reddish brown one, based on how much it has been mixed!

Well, for the transport sector itself, perhaps the subsidy can be 'returned' via submission of proper tax returns. This will also ensure that tax returns are filed diligently for that sector.

Not sure how it can work for the agriculture side unless the returns are disbursed quicker for them as a separate fast track process. As far as I know, there is no tax to be paid on agricultural income. Not really sure about that though.
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Old 8th May 2012, 15:30   #551
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Ahem, a proposal from a SW engineer...

Why not a bar code for each vehicle composed of its VIN, registration number and type - personal/transport/commercial/agricultural etc. ?

The coding algorithm should have a different "key" per type of vehicle for the encoding.

2 actions are mandatory. VIN should be etched somewhere visible & accessible - readable

The bar code could be etched on a credit card sized card like for e.g. fuel company cards , only in this case useable with any company.

This card should be swiped on a POS like in supermarkets which has as well a bar code reader.

Attendant makes the scan of the VIN and based on its tally the price is changed on the dispenser by the POS.

This way you need both the card and the vehicle to be present.

In a country like ours even if we get beyond the implementation stage for any proposal I am sure there would be a loophole identified.

Corruption is in our blood...I daresay as a result of our colonial past.
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Old 8th May 2012, 15:57   #552
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

By the looks of it Diesel will be small fry, with the economy going into a free fall. So let us not worry about small things like Diesel.
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Old 8th May 2012, 20:04   #553
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Diesel has and always will be cheaper because it is used for the core transportation sector - Railways, Trucks, Buses et all. Any increase in cost of diesel will have a resultant increase in the cost of everything consumed in India.

Personal cars count for 0.6% of India's diesel consumption. So all this talk is just about re-pricing diesel because of a disparity between petrol and diesel price for consumers is more of idealism than pragmatism. Besides, the suggestion of a bi-pricing of diesel whether with dye or not is not really workable as it will result in some unscrupulous elements exploiting it.

Hence the strategy should be:
1. To place a tax on diesel cars rather than tax diesel itself.
2. The govt should setup a national gas grid and then encourage vehicles to switch over to solar-gas hybrids and do away with dependence on foreign oil altogether
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Old 8th May 2012, 22:58   #554
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

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Originally Posted by Jignesh View Post
Hello Ajoy & Rohan,

Yes. Fuel Dyes is a brilliant solution. ,
The blue Kerosene Dye has been withdrawn because of health concerns - it is toxic. I have myself experienced tremors and quaking as well as fidgety nervous system while handling and using it on camping stoves plenty of times.

While diesel may not be used while cooking, dye in it it may affect farm workers ...

--R
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Old 9th May 2012, 09:33   #555
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Yesterday, it seems that Kunbhkaran is finally waking up. So the noise that the FM made in the parliament about raising fuel prices, and also passing some bills.

However, he is still behaving like a mule in the GAAR (read Vodaphone) issue. All this talk about tax haven is silly - you made a defective law and somebody drove a lorry through the hole. The Cupreme Court confirms it. Now who is to blame you or the chap with the lorry.

The way it looks like is that they will incrase the ex-factory prices and persuade the states to lessen the blow by cutting taxes. Not much hope for the consumer in any case. Expect cooking prices to be up by at least Rs. 100. No talk about the price of pseudo-diesel (aka Kerosene). I am using this term since this is where most of it ends up in.
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