Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 18th May 2012, 19:19   #616
BHPian
 
samarjitdhar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sydney/Kolkata
Posts: 964
Thanked: 476 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Quote:
Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
Seriously, I was watching a video about Reagan about how he cut taxes to get out of recession and it worked. The govt needs to work differently for economic development and not think only about taxes for development. (existing taxes will bring money if the economy grows)
Actually a lot of videos are made on Reagan where they claim that he cut taxes while he did the exact opposite. Reagan had raised taxes contrary to popular belief. The economic recovery returned only when Volcker decided to reduce the high interest rates that he had set to break the back of inflation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
If the govt just wants to harrass the common mna / tax payer, Then i take back all my posts posted so far.
This is going pretty now but given how the government has functioned since independence you might have to do that . Let's stick to the topic of this thread for now instead of bringing in Reagan or taxes or even sun films.
samarjitdhar is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th May 2012, 19:41   #617
Senior - BHPian
 
selfdrive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,700
Thanked: 2,119 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Here is a suggestion.
Remove all subsidies on petrol and diesel, sell them at market price.
Then get the relevant people/ businesses to file claims under tax rebates if they choose.
Based on a certain usage limit for every predfined category.

So everyone will be entitled to get subsidy for some predefined x litres of fuel. Anything more has to be at market rate. This will keep a cap on the actual subsidy as the number of litres will be fixed. So if anyone travels more they have to pay at market rate.

Yes, it does smack of socialism but please add your suggestions to tweak this proposal. If I knew all about fixing the economy I would be in the planning commission. No, hang on; thats not a pre requisite. Cheap shot, that!

Personal commuters would get say 100 litres/ month/ car or 50 litres/ month/ 2 wheeler. Transport companies could include this in their returns and get adjusted in income tax.

The only caveat is that the categories hopefully are divided by usage (personal/ commercial) and not by income groups or by other categories
Otherwise it will only become another tool for building vote banks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
3,000 is more of a detterent. Measly 100s and 200s dont do any good. I see so many traffic violations even when cops are manning signals. People have lost the respect and fear of a policeman now-a-days. If a person cannot afford the fine he better follow traffic rules, else not ride a vehicle.
Let the fine be a % of the OTR cost of the vehicle. Instead of a flat rate for everyone. 2% for 2 wheelers, 1% for 4 wheelers.

Last edited by selfdrive : 18th May 2012 at 19:43.
selfdrive is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th May 2012, 17:09   #618
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sgiitk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kanpur
Posts: 7,163
Thanked: 3,759 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Somewhat OT: Since we are discussing Keynesian vs Monetary (the Hayekian may not ring a bell) economics may I recommend Keynes Hayek: The Clash That Defined Modern Economics by Nicholas Wapshott which I have just read. It opened my eyes and made a lot of the historicity clear, as to why the twain is not meeting. As has been said the future lies in the past.
sgiitk is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th May 2012, 20:29   #619
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 1.37N 103.92E
Posts: 71
Thanked: 41 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive
Let the fine be a % of the OTR cost of the vehicle. Instead of a flat rate for everyone. 2% for 2 wheelers, 1% for 4 wheelers.
OT Alert:
Think about Mukesh Ambani's driver. The guy would have to run away after jumping the signal, even if it is done unknowingly. 1% of a Maybach or even 740il will surely break his back.
Now think of yourself instead of Mukesh Ambani. Why should you pay for driver's mistake?

Last edited by rtandon : 19th May 2012 at 20:42.
rtandon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2012, 06:14   #620
Senior - BHPian
 
shankar.balan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: BLR
Posts: 8,027
Thanked: 5,326 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive
Here is a suggestion.
Remove all subsidies on petrol and diesel, sell them at market price.
Then get the relevant people/ businesses to file claims under tax rebates if they choose.
Based on a certain usage limit for every predfined category.

The only caveat is that the categories hopefully are divided by usage (personal/ commercial) and not by income groups or by other categories
Otherwise it will only become another tool for building vote banks.

Let the fine be a % of the OTR cost of the vehicle. Instead of a flat rate for everyone. 2% for 2 wheelers, 1% for 4 wheelers.
Regulation on vehicle wise basis will be a nightmare because there is no central vehicle database which is properly maintained and updated!

Last edited by Technocrat : 22nd May 2012 at 21:11. Reason: Please quote selectively for a long post, thanks
shankar.balan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2012, 07:28   #621
Senior - BHPian
 
selfdrive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,700
Thanked: 2,119 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtandon View Post
Now think of yourself instead of Mukesh Ambani. Why should you pay for driver's mistake?
Probably he will ask for a better salary then. Honestly, people need to ensure that they take this into account while driving. The law should be a deterrent, fines should not be affordable, and it will work here only if it becomes very expensive. As of today, the fine is probably worth a few litres of fuel and at the rate of increase, it will soon be worth perhaps a litre only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
Regulation on vehicle wise basis will be a nightmare because there is no central vehicle database which is properly maintained and updated!
So lets make that a pre requisite. it would be helpful elsewhere too. And heaven knows that we need decent infrastructure in place. OTR costs can be determined from the 'gaadi papers' too, correct?

By the way, I am not getting notifications for being quoted. any idea why? I see that the quoted posts dont have that red arrow.
selfdrive is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2012, 16:20   #622
BHPian
 
samarjitdhar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sydney/Kolkata
Posts: 964
Thanked: 476 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Although a bit but perhaps steps like this

Govt to provide direct subsidy on kerosene - The Times of India

should reduce the subsidy bill and create some relief. Note that both LPG and kerosene are not taxed hence its a pure case of subsidy. I don't know what are the subsidy figures for kerosene which can be saved by these steps but any amount is welcome. I have also stressed that LPG should be sold at market rates at least for those who can afford. As per my own calculations of usage the additional bill without the subsidy should run somewhere between Rs 3000-6000 per household annually. That would be a cost of a single night out for dinner. Again this should be implemented uniformly including government servants and politicians.

Take out the LPG and kerosene subsidies and then we can start talking about rationalizing diesel and petrol prices after a just amount of taxation on these products.
samarjitdhar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2012, 19:09   #623
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sgiitk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kanpur
Posts: 7,163
Thanked: 3,759 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

The subsidy game also has a subterfuge. Some subsidies are over the table and some under the table,i.e. do not show up in the budget!
sgiitk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th May 2012, 09:52   #624
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,133
Thanked: 1,006 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

And now we have a Rs.7+ hike in petrol

Though diesel price rise will soon follow, it will be no where near the petrol rise.

With petrol nearly 60% costlier, I hope the petrol car industry survives, out side a niche market.
Aroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th May 2012, 10:56   #625
Senior - BHPian
 
Jignesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Eindhoven, NL
Posts: 1,603
Thanked: 933 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
Though diesel price rise will soon follow, it will be no where near the petrol rise.
With petrol nearly 60% costlier, I hope the petrol car industry survives, out side a niche market.
I doubt, Deisel Price will not increase & even if it is increased it will only be marginal i.e. Rs. 2 or Rs. 3.

I am sure Petrol Car market will take a huge beating after yesterday Price Hike. Currently almost 50% of passengers cars sold are Diesel Cars & nnow this will only increase.

People will definitely move towards Diesel / CNG options.

Thanks,
Jignesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th May 2012, 11:23   #626
BHPian
 
DRIVE_ADDICT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 409
Thanked: 180 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

I think Govt. should now implement taxing pvt. diesel vehicles (OTR), otherwise things wll turn worse. They have missed that golden oppurtunity during union budget.
Increasing diesel price / removing subsidy on diesel etc. will never be possible for the current Govt. with its alliances.

Last edited by DRIVE_ADDICT : 24th May 2012 at 11:23. Reason: spelling mistake corrected
DRIVE_ADDICT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th May 2012, 12:32   #627
Senior - BHPian
 
selfdrive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,700
Thanked: 2,119 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
With petrol nearly 60% costlier, I hope the petrol car industry survives, out side a niche market.
I have said this on some other thread too. Honestly, in a capital economy the manufacturers will find something to do. Or shut down. I care more for the problems of the 2 wheeler owners who have no such luxury.
Is this not pushing people to buy cheap diesel cars as their per km running cost is now almost same as that of a petrol 2 wheeler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRIVE_ADDICT View Post
I think Govt. should now implement taxing pvt. diesel vehicles (OTR), otherwise things wll turn worse. They have missed that golden oppurtunity during union budget.
I agree. There should be an annual lumpsum tax applied on all diesel vehicles. Or just deregulate diesel and offer tax claims on a certain number of litres per year (perhaps only via credit card bills to avoid fraud by pump attendants). For both petrol & diesel users. This will be a better way of offering subsidy. That will take care of excess consumption and tax return avoidance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jignesh View Post
I am sure Petrol Car market will take a huge beating after yesterday Price Hike. Currently almost 50% of passengers cars sold are Diesel Cars & nnow this will only increase.
People will definitely move towards Diesel / CNG options.
yes, many are already taking an initial loss by selling off their petrol vehicles and moving to diesel mills.
2 wheelers are worst hit in my opinion as they dont have a diesel option.

Last edited by selfdrive : 24th May 2012 at 12:37.
selfdrive is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 24th May 2012, 14:02   #628
Distinguished - BHPian
 
volkman10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: --
Posts: 10,069
Thanked: 15,622 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Petrol price hike fails to lift rupee; diesel eyed!

Quote:
The rupee fell to a fresh record low on Thursday as a sharp increase in petrol prices failed to lift investor sentiment even as it fuelled expectations New Delhi might soon take the more politically fraught step of raising diesel prices
Petrol price hike fails to lift rupee; diesel eyed - The Times of India
volkman10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th May 2012, 14:30   #629
Senior - BHPian
 
Jignesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Eindhoven, NL
Posts: 1,603
Thanked: 933 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Quote:
Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Petrol price hike fails to lift rupee; diesel eyed!
Hello Volkman,

Petrol is not contributing to falling Rupee or India's Subsidy bill.

Actually it is Diesel that is contribution to high Balance of Payment (& so falling Rupee) & obviously increasing Subsidy Bill.

Somehow I am getting a gut feeling that even after EGOM's meeting, Diesel Price are not going to be hiked. Even if they decide to go for a hike, it will be marginal i.e. Rs. 2 or Rs. 3.

The Govenrment has really created a mess of the entire situation. The preference of the consumers is shifting towards Diesel & there is no way to implement differential Diesel Prices for different Consumers.

Thanks,

Last edited by Jignesh : 24th May 2012 at 14:46. Reason: Spelling mistake
Jignesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th May 2012, 20:50   #630
NPV
Distinguished - BHPian
 
NPV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Namma Bengaluru
Posts: 4,835
Thanked: 4,782 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

After the latest Petrol price hike I believe Diesel prices will never be rationalised.
In Bangalore today, Petrol is priced at Rs.81.75 and Diesel at Rs.46.21 that's a difference of Rs.35.54 ! Assuming Diesel is cheaper to manufacture, let's say Diesel will be priced Rs.15 lesser. Even then, can Diesel price be hiked by Rs.20.54 in one go ? Never ! This means the only route for Diesel price hike will be to take small steps of < Rs.5 and each time that is done, Petrol will also go up, so this big difference in prices will be there forever
NPV is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Swift Diesel, Saga continues. The DIESEL experience! Part II 72k kms Update Page 182. Now SOLD! Jaggu Long-Term Ownership Reviews 2989 17th December 2017 22:05
BMW to drop prices due to increased localisation. EDIT: New prices announced Aditya The Indian Car Scene 38 10th July 2015 21:19
Hyundai Cut prices- New detailed prices. harry10 The Indian Car Scene 5 9th December 2008 00:45
Are these good prices for Tata\Fiat vehicles? Corporate Offer Prices sahakar The Indian Car Scene 15 8th July 2008 23:03


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 16:53.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks