Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 25th May 2012, 13:12   #646
Senior - BHPian
 
lurker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tura
Posts: 1,308
Thanked: 641 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

the feeling that I get is that this govt wants to keep petrol prices high since there is hardly any cost attached to it in term of votebank and wants to also use high petrol prices to provoke people against diesel and give them an excuse of raising diesel prices as well.

Finally they will have achieved the price level required to make fuel retail profitable for private players like Reliance, Essar et al.
lurker is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2012, 13:49   #647
BHPian
 
samarjitdhar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sydney/Kolkata
Posts: 964
Thanked: 476 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
]
I have always agreed with the tax part. In fact I have stated earlier - perhaps on this very thread - that taxes on fuel should be a fixed price and not a % of per litre price.

That said, I also state that for the economy to improve, diesel prices (and LPG) need to be rationalised as it is a direct hit to the subsidy bill.
Impact of the petrol price hike is only on the OMC balance sheets and nowhere on the subsidy bill.
Why have a tax on an essential commodity like diesel? LPG and kerosene actually do not have any taxes on them so it is a case of true subsidy. Will this country run without petrol? Why tax petrol so high that it is almost half of the retail price? If diesel is such an essential commodity that you cannot increase its price then why do state governments impose tax on it happily. The political parties are nothing bunch of hypocrites who think that the citizens are fools, oh well most of them actually are, who don't see through the game. The state governments' share of diesel taxes is a huge amount of the price around Rs 14 on an average. The OMCs deduct this from their cost price and sell it to the dealers at Rs 14 less. The dealers then collect this same Rs 14 as tax and give it to the state governments. The center then compensates this amount to the OMCs. Craziness !!!!! Immaculate transfer of subsidy from the center to the state.

Everything is crystal clear about petrol taxes . And why do we have such high taxes on essential commodities like petrol and taxes? The government has refused to collect income taxes from all those who can pay because they can collect bribes from them. Kill the middle class, is the government's motto now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker View Post
the feeling that I get is that this govt wants to keep petrol prices high since there is hardly any cost attached to it in term of votebank and wants to also use high petrol prices to provoke people against diesel and give them an excuse of raising diesel prices as well.
+1 to that.
samarjitdhar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2012, 13:56   #648
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sgiitk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kanpur
Posts: 7,160
Thanked: 3,755 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker View Post
the feeling that I get is that this govt wants to keep petrol prices high since there is hardly any cost attached to it in term of votebank and wants to also use high petrol prices to provoke people against diesel and give them an excuse of raising diesel prices as well.

Finally they will have achieved the price level required to make fuel retail profitable for private players like Reliance, Essar et al.
They know the urban middle class is negligible and in any case does not vote for them.

Who said the Congress wants Reliance & Essar. At a price where the OMCs will still be crying these chaps will be laughing all the way to the bank. Maybe if they were offered some share in an Italian/Swiss bank then things may change.
sgiitk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2012, 14:15   #649
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ghaziabad/Hyderabad/Mysore
Posts: 1,416
Thanked: 313 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jignesh View Post
Hello Vina,

Under-recovery in Diesel, LPG & Kerosene is as follows:

Diesel - Rs. 13.64 per ltr
Kerosene - Rs. 31.41 per ltr
LPG - Rs. 479 per cylinder.

Thus from the above it is clear that for each liter of Diesel sold, Goverment has to pay Rs. 13.64 to Oil marketing Companies. SImilarly for every liter of Kerosene Government pays Rs. 31.41 & for every LPG Cyllinder the amount is Rs. 479.

In case of Petrol, as it is de-regulated commodity, Government does not pay any thing to Oil Marketing Companies, even if they make loss on sell of Petrol.

Also refer to the below article for detailed explanation: Morgan Stanley warns India of balance of payment risk - Indian Express

Thanks,

All of this may be true or not (people are already arguing with you) but what does any of this have to do with balance of payments?

Balance of payments relates to the trades the country does with outside world, whatever you have written above pertains to whatever goes on within the country.

Even if subsidy goes to zero on all of the above, unless consumption reduces as a result of those increases, the balance of payment problem will remain exactly where it is right now.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jignesh View Post
Hello Mr. SGIITK,

There is nothing under the table. Govenment & Oil Marketing companies are doing this daylight robbery legally & we cannot do anything about this.
you can fo something about it - rather than protesting the high price of petrol, you should protest about the low price of diesel.

Also you should protest about central and state govt.'s drunkenness (people drink alcohol, these guys drink oil tax revenues) Frankly if oil prices fall to $20/barrel somehow, our govt. will have huge trouble - a vast pat of revenue stream will just vanish.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jignesh View Post

...
So, Diesel Car Owners I have nothing against you. You have already paid high price of Car for enjoying low priced fuel in future.
That doesn't give them any additional rights - and by the way two out of the three cars my family owns are diesels.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jignesh View Post
I have mentioned this earlier, but still - why should .... It is this misuse of subsidized Diesel that I am against.
There is no way you can prevent the misuse. Either nobody gets the subsidy or everyone does. If you think otherwise, look at what happens to kerosene.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jignesh View Post
Coming to passenger Car Buyers, the situation we are into now is people with very less usage (say less 8,000 kms per year) are also buying Diesel Cars, not realising that they will recover the additional amount paid for Diesel after 5 Years. Now imagine, after three years, government decides to match Diesel Price for passenger cars to Petrol price - Won't these Diesel Car buyers will not feel cheated?

...

who cares if they (and that includes me) feel cheated - they took a risk which they should have calculated.

And whether they realize it or not, they are being cheated even now. They save far less in fuel costs due to this absurd subsidy than they end up paying in terms of higher inflation, corruption, dirty fuels and what not - and add to it the fact that most of them are tax payers who bear the brunt of these subsidies.



Frankly, my sister who drives 30000km a year pays about Rs. 2/km in fuel costs (20kmpl+ in mileage and Rs 42/ltr) - that comes to Rs. 60000 a year. If diesel costs increase by 50% she'll have to shell out another 30000 a year. That frankly is not all that much for a high usage person like her.

For me, it comes to even less than that simply because I don't even drive all that much - it is about Rs. 1000/month extra for me.

On the other hand a person with 10lacs/year in salary lost about 2lacs worth of income in the first few months of this year if the income is measured in US dollars. A good part of the rupee slide is thanks to the fact that no investor, including domestic, believes that this govt. or the next has the guts to do the right thing, and it is costing us. Even if only a fraction of the rupee slide is due to govt.'s lameness, it is still a far greater loss than anything we will end up paying for diesel.

Add to this the long term costs of corruption and also the realisation that we are paying the "subsidies" (whether there are subsidies or not is semantics - point is there will be shortfall in govt. revenues that you and I will end up paying for some way or the other)
vina is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2012, 14:26   #650
BHPian
 
fast&furious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 163
Thanked: 47 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Quote:
Originally Posted by babu.sundaram View Post
Think of it: You need to set up a separate supply line from refinery to pump (if some sort of dye is to be used to identify). The pumps would need two storage tanks instead of one which they have. You need supply planning to be different. We are talking about 40K+ pumps spread across the country. The devil is in details. How many years would we take to set up at all these (how many would have space for one more tank?)

People are not afraid of doing all these: Kolkota has/had a black market to fill auto with domestic LPG (See link : Fraudsters held for floating fake NGO - Times Of India ). Do you think this would have sprung up overnight? Or, by which law book is a Jugaad legal? yet it runs (see link : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/commer...66-jugaad.html ).

Yes, it is feasible to create a distribution mechanism to distribute same fuel to two classes and price differently. But, such a differentiation with the current set of morons as policy makers and enforcement agencies would happen only in dream (and in reality politicians would have one more avenue to make money).
Oh no! Why do you need two separate colours and pumps?! All they have to do is issue some kinda document to those people who are eligible for subsidized diesel. Show it to the fuel station guys and fill the tank. Just like issuing concession table for students in buses. There might be much better solutions but you definitely don't need two colours and pumps.

I have never seen someone riding an lpg two wheeler. And I'm sure that the numbers are very very low. Especially when compared to the number of two wheelers that roll out into the roads every month.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post
I'm sorry but that is a little incorrect. You seem to suggest that the whole country is full of tie-and-suit wearing corporate office goers who drive Swift ZDis and Punto 90HPs around town. Forget for a minute about we "privileged" diesel users on team-bhp. All the Swift and Punto and Ritz owners (in fact all other private cars) in India hardly account for around 1% of total diesel consumed. Rural market consists of lots of MUVs, jeeps, etc. Taxis are significantly higher in number and consume more diesel, and the rest of the transportation sector is the main consumer, apart from a host of other sectors like power generation, agriculture, etc.

About black market - think about the massive taxi industry - there are millions of indicabs, indigos, Innovas, Xylos and what not. The average taxi driver hardly cares about fuel quality. All he is worried about is taking his customers from point A to point B. Period. Unlike us team-bhpians, he won't bother about spending 10 Rs. extra per litre for filling "Shell Super premium" diesel with extra additives to enhance engine performance. He will rather take diesel from a black market at 10Rs.cheaper if anything like that exists. Dual pricing will sooner or later create that black market, which is why it is so difficult to implement here. I respect your opinion and the intentions behind the plan you suggested, but practically it will open a big can of worms (forget about the metropolitan office goers in puntos and swifts when considering this).

Diesel is also used a lot by 5-star hotels and resorts to run massive generators. No reason why they should be given subsidy. How difficult is it for them to bribe their supplier into selling diesel to them at the subsidized rate?

We won't find any petrol car owner running around now to get fuel at lower prices, because there is no dual pricing on petrol now. Bring dual pricing in, and the black market will start, at least by yellow board taxis. Ditto with diesel.

Private car owners will not worry if it is 250-300 Rs. increase in fuel bills, but like I said before, diesel is not consumed by just Puntos, Swifts and Fabias here. The entire transportation industry runs on Diesel (taxis, trucks, railway locomotives), diesel generators, tractors, pump sets in agricultural areas, boat engines, to name a few other users.
I don't believe that. The pvt.cars in India don't even account for 1% of the total fuel usage by the vehicles here???!!! You shouldn't include the public transport system by the way.

IIRC, the loss to the company is Rs.15 or more per litre of diesel. Any idea about the litres of diesel consumed by the pvt. vehicles in India every day?

Gone are the days of Ambassador and Premier Padmini taxis. We see a lot of taxi MUVs these days and none of the taxi drivers I know are willing to fill kerosene or adulterated fuel in their cars because they are very much aware of the after effects and they take care of their cars very well. These are not 1L 2L cars you know. Some indica guys might try this trick but I'm sure that there wont be enough fuel in the black market for all those taxi guys.

And you talk as if there's no Police in India. According to what you say, it's impossible to implement any law or policy here. Since it's the Govt. who is the beneficiary here, they will be extra efficient.

Diesel should be provided at subsidised rates all those who deserve it. And once they start issuing some kinda license to obtain diesel at subsidised rates, how are the hotel and car owners gonna bribe the pump guys? There are loopholes in the method I'm talking about but I'm not thinking about all that while writing this. What I'm trying to say is that it is indeed possible to implement a system that is somewhat leak proof. It may not be perfect but it will do the job. The main aim is to prevent the pvt. car owners and some others from getting diesel at subsidised rate. And if they bring dual pricing into play, that WILL happen. It will also prevent people from buying diesel cars to some extent.

The dual pricing policy I have in mind is not intended to hurt the poor taxi and autorikshaw guys. The one and only intention is to prevent those people who can afford a Rs.10 hike from getting diesel at subsidised rate which in turn will benefit the companies and the petrol vehicle owners. Unlike upping the tax rate, dual pricing policy gives the buyer complete freedom to choose the car he wants to. He will have to pay a little more for the fuel. That's it.

It's very easy to sit in front of a computer and say "this is not possible, that is not possible, this is the problem, that is the problem" etc etc. But finding a solution to the problem takes a lot more effort. There are people here with much much better ideas and plans than many of us have. So if dual pricing is the only solution, it will be implemented. Nobody here has the time or will to do research and find the solutions. Even if they do, for whom? That's why 'dual pricing theory' discussions often end in a negative manner.

There's a solution to every problem. Especially if that problem is created by man himself. It's just a matter of finding it. I'm not saying that dual pricing policy is the best solution but it's definitely one of the possible solutions. Oh and by the way, don't forget the oil company guys' salary factor. That's easiest thing the Govt. can and should do.
fast&furious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2012, 14:55   #651
Senior - BHPian
 
selfdrive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,696
Thanked: 2,111 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Quote:
Originally Posted by fast&furious View Post
Oh no! Why do you need two separate colours and pumps?! All they have to do is issue some kinda document to those people who are eligible for subsidized diesel. Show it to the fuel station guys and fill the tank. Just like issuing concession table for students in buses. There might be much better solutions but you definitely don't need two colours and pumps.
Because we all know how checking that id will go!

Here's another suggestion I keep repeating. No need for dual pricing here in India. Keep it at one deregulated price. Everyone buys at the same market rate. If anyone deserves a subsidy let them prove and claim it through the Income Tax channel. Perhaps by way of refunds or tax deductions.
Consumption can be regulated in such a way that people use or get only subsidy for first x litres every month. Everything else at market rate. Transport organisations for essential commodities can get more subsidy depending on their tax filings than, say suited (or not)corporate types. Repeating the term from a previous post, no offence meant.
Will ensure a lot more people submit their IT returns too.

Last edited by selfdrive : 25th May 2012 at 14:57.
selfdrive is online now   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2012, 15:04   #652
Distinguished - BHPian
 
sgiitk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kanpur
Posts: 7,160
Thanked: 3,755 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

@Jignesh; It is known and accepted that certain expenses/subsidies do not show up in the budget or statement of accounts. This is what I meant by under the table. may be under the Radar will be more appropriate.
sgiitk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2012, 15:23   #653
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: N Delhi
Posts: 398
Thanked: 177 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Way before it became acceptable on this forum to talk about inequities in alternate fuel prices I and one member had talked about the issue.

Irrespective of whatever permutations and combinations one talks about to curb diesel consumption for personal vehicles, the one solution that is simple and sweet is enhanced registration/road taxes for diesel vehicles. There can be no revenue leakages in this route. Simple as that. Do this and you are pushing the break even for diesel vehicles further out. Make people assess their actual needs and buy accordingly.

Is this the final solution to the nonsense of fuel pricing in India? No. The answer lies in freeing the prices of all fuels from government fiat and taxing all fuels equitably.

The Inflation scare mongers? Let them cry themselves hoarse. End users will adjust and adapt to enhance productivity and efficiencies. The jhola waala socialists complaining about the burden on the poor? Ask them why did they not spend the extra they spent on buying a diesel on the education of a below the poverty line kid!

We can cry ourselves hoarse. It will NOT yield anything. This problem will NOT go away till we face a disaster of gigantic proportions on the fuel supply side . ONLY then will the NB(neta-babu) combine , let go of this milch cow.

Last edited by RS_DEL : 25th May 2012 at 15:38.
RS_DEL is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2012, 15:27   #654
BHPian
 
the VTEC guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pune
Posts: 563
Thanked: 138 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

While this petrol hike is already done there has been a talk about increasing diesel prices for some time or putting additional tax on Diesel cars. I thought of doing some analysis to figure out whether such a move(additional tax on new diesel vehicles) is going to help in balancing the diesel subsidy. Below is snap shot of my analysis. Took the data from April month segment wise sales figures, applied some assumptions and came to a figure of approx INR 9200 crore on annual sales of cars (may'11 to apr'12). Not sure if this number is too high or low to compensate the diesel subsidy. Not considered the commercial vehicles as don't have the data. Tried to consider the % diesel car sales and average price of car per segment on the higher side. Also considered 10% flat additional tax for diesel cars irrespective of the segment to arrive at above figure.
Assuming that this figure is sufficient would it not be injustice to new car buyers as the cost will be recovered from them while there will be millions of old diesel cars that will continue to enjoy the subsidy.
Attached Images
 
the VTEC guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2012, 17:30   #655
Senior - BHPian
 
selfdrive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,696
Thanked: 2,111 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_DEL View Post
Irrespective of whatever permutations and combinations one talks about to curb diesel consumption for personal vehicles, the one solution that is simple and sweet is enhanced registration/road taxes for diesel vehicles. There can be no revenue leakages in this route. Simple as that. Do this and you are pushing the break even for diesel vehicles further out. Make people assess their actual needs and buy accordingly.
In terms of simplicity, yes this is the best solution out there. However this would also increase diesel consumption. Knowing our attitude of squeezing every paisa of value for every rupee we pay, people will then want to use as much diesel as they can. which is not really ideal either, well environmentally too.
It would be better to restrict subsidy than taking a lumpsum and allowing no limits usage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the VTEC guy View Post
Assuming that this figure is sufficient would it not be injustice to new car buyers as the cost will be recovered from them while there will be millions of old diesel cars that will continue to enjoy the subsidy.
Good effort! This exercise would be perfect one time revenue generation if it is applied retrospectively to all diesel cars. This should be an additional tax that they would have to pay. No use just charging only new cars.

I think its a good idea to retrieve all the 'losses' from existing diesel owners and give them to the OMCs. Like a modern day reverse Robinhood.
Why should existing owners get subsidised fuel while we are not giving it to new owners?
selfdrive is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2012, 17:42   #656
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 260
Thanked: 91 Times
Post re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
...
No need for dual pricing here in India. Keep it at one deregulated price. Everyone buys at the same market rate. If anyone deserves a subsidy let them prove and claim it through the Income Tax channel. Perhaps by way of refunds or tax deductions.
Consumption can be regulated in such a way that people use or get only subsidy for first x litres every month. Everything else at market rate. Transport organisations for essential commodities can get more subsidy depending on their tax filings than, say suited (or not)corporate types. Repeating the term from a previous post, no offence meant.
Will ensure a lot more people submit their IT returns too.
+1 to this. On one side, we would have the "poor" farmers also get into the tax net. On other hand, with market driven pricing the incentive to adulterate (with Kerosene ) would also be gone.

(I don't think we need to ration once we limit the subsidy with some form of cap on tax rebate/deduction).
babu.sundaram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2012, 17:52   #657
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: N Delhi
Posts: 398
Thanked: 177 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
In terms of simplicity, yes this is the best solution out there. However this would also increase diesel consumption. Knowing our attitude of squeezing every paisa of value for every rupee we pay, people will
Why should existing owners get subsidised fuel while we are not giving it to new owners?

In today's date most folks walking into a car dealership (New/used) are wondering about the perils of buying a petrol and are calculating if it is worth their while to plonk in a little extra now and save later on the running. Generalised statement? Ofcourse. Can this be validated? Sure just see the sale trends and the increasing # of diesel deliveries.

I reiterate - Push the break even further out. This will result in increased EMIs'. People will recalculate their notional savings and come to a realistic assessment of their needs. If after this they conclude they need a diesel, then by all means.

This is however ONLY a stopgap solution. Eventually this choice of fuel needs to be guided by the economic merits only which are not being distorted by administrative fiats from the Mr Know ALLs i.e. IAS geniuses.
RS_DEL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2012, 18:26   #658
BHPian
 
gopinathann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 765
Thanked: 20 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Along with the subsidy they provide for diesels, if they provide subsidy for battery cars then most of the petrol buyers will shift to battery cars, which keeps the environment clean, keep the cost of fuel low, so that people who buy petrol hatchback for city use can move to battery car with the same price tag.
gopinathann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2012, 18:36   #659
BHPian
 
fast&furious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 163
Thanked: 47 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
Keep it at one deregulated price. Everyone buys at the same market rate. If anyone deserves a subsidy let them prove and claim it through the Income Tax channel. Perhaps by way of refunds or tax deductions.
Consumption can be regulated in such a way that people use or get only subsidy for first x litres every month. Everything else at market rate.
I must say that's a very cool idea. Much easier to implement too. I wonder why someone with ideas as good as this supported a fine of 25k for tiny traffic offences.

EDIT:But I have a doubt. What about people who don't have to pay income tax? I'm talking about the the low income group.
Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
In terms of simplicity, yes this is the best solution out there. However this would also increase diesel consumption. Knowing our attitude of squeezing every paisa of value for every rupee we pay, people will then want to use as much diesel as they can. which is not really ideal either, well environmentally too.
It would be better to restrict subsidy than taking a lumpsum and allowing no limits usage.
+1. Another issue I see with that system is that, if the tax rates are exorbitant, the consumer loses the freedom of choice. I mean people will no longer look at diesel cars the same way. Diesel cars already on average cost a lakh more than the petrol cars. If they raise the tax too, not many will consider it since the hike in tax rate will be of considerable margin to make up for the subsidy. IMHO Diesel price hike is the only solution that is effective on a long term basis. Consumer has the freedom to buy the car he/she wants. No extra tax or anything. Just pay a little more for the fuel.

Last edited by fast&furious : 25th May 2012 at 18:51.
fast&furious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2012, 18:53   #660
Senior - BHPian
 
selfdrive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,696
Thanked: 2,111 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Quote:
Originally Posted by fast&furious View Post
I must say that's a very cool idea. Much easier to implement too. I wonder why someone with ideas as good as this supported a fine of 25k for tiny traffic offences.
We all have our moments, make me the FM

by the way, just to clarify I never said 25K. I only (ahem!) said a % of vehicle OTR cost for petty traffic offences. And confiscate the vehicle; leave it jammed on the roadside for two nights at owner's risk. Share this info with insurance companies so claims will be rejected for anything that happens during those 2 nights.

Drive the fear of fines and traffic offences into people. Dare people to commit traffic offences. Its a public road, not a playground. As a lot, we are too unruly and deserve this kind of deterrence in place.

Again, perhaps I didnt give all these details on the same thread as your revolutionary and popular 25K fine idea!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fast&furious View Post
EDIT:But I have a doubt. What about people who don't have to pay income tax? I'm talking about the the low income group.
They can be given food coupons which could be accepted at all shops. If they choose to sell the coupons and make money, also ok. They still get their subsidy. Even better, just allow them to exchange for money at the local post office based on submission of relevant proof. They dont do much business these days in any case, but are omnipresent and have the best reach/ penetration of any service. Probably even better than the Indian Rail.

Last edited by selfdrive : 25th May 2012 at 19:06. Reason: added response
selfdrive is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Swift Diesel, Saga continues. The DIESEL experience! Part II 72k kms Update Page 182. Now SOLD! Jaggu Long-Term Ownership Reviews 2988 21st September 2017 11:10
BMW to drop prices due to increased localisation. EDIT: New prices announced Aditya The Indian Car Scene 38 10th July 2015 21:19
Hyundai Cut prices- New detailed prices. harry10 The Indian Car Scene 5 9th December 2008 00:45
Are these good prices for Tata\Fiat vehicles? Corporate Offer Prices sahakar The Indian Car Scene 15 8th July 2008 23:03


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 16:26.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks