Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12th June 2012, 21:24   #736
Senior - BHPian
 
AutoIndian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: PCMC, Pune-MH14
Posts: 3,120
Thanked: 3,815 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Thank you guys for taking the trouble, the link opened finally in my browser. Have seen the comments on the article posted by someone, ET is simply trying to press the panic button amongst the car buying populace. Once it happened during the pre-budget months (slapping of 80K as excise duty on diesel cars) & it is happening now again. We really have to take ET news with a bucketfull of salt.
AutoIndian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2012, 21:28   #737
Senior - BHPian
 
scopriobharath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,565
Thanked: 1,175 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
I dont see how diesel subsidy would help middle class people who are using 2 wheelers or Santros. Unless you mean to say by keeping the transport prices in check for all goods. Which isnt really in check in any case, but thats another point.

Also, when Govt promotes industries other than agriculture it promotes employment. Mostly for the middle class. How much they pocket in the bargain is another story again.
Hi -

I wrote that statement for the fact that "subsidy should not be given to middle class". Today's Govt Thinks Petrol is a rich man's fuel and Diesel is poor man's fuel. So an M800/omni owner is super rich and BMW 740 D owner is considered poor to the Govt. I would extend Santro to even basic model diesels like Indicas and Beats into the equation a this is a bare-basic means of commutation. I dont want a subsidy from the Govt but govt should not want my tax also. If i pay tax, i expect something in return (similar to other countries).

To the second point - it is not sufficient if govt just creates job. It must provide "facilities". IT & BPO job is a different ballgame compared to Farming. When Govt created IT & BPO jobs, govt did not bother about transportation (one simple thing). I can go sweaty and smelly to a Farm & heck even reach an hour late. no one to question or answer to.

In an MNC, I need to be on time and that too i need to be presentable and fresh. For this - Either i need a robust transport like UK / USA or i need to have my own vehicle. Take example of New Jersey, Where public transport is not Robust. Fuel is subsidized and govt promotes usage of car. In order to reach on time, i buy a 2W / car and i go in for petrol since its cheaper on-road (ignore running costs). Now govt does not improve infrstructure and also makes petrol unaffordable for daily use. Its the employees of this MNC who pays tax through thier nose and that too 100% legitimately (TDS).

In a word - Govt must do at least ONE thing for the tax paying middle class.
scopriobharath is online now   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2012, 21:53   #738
BHPian
 
samarjitdhar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sydney/Kolkata
Posts: 964
Thanked: 476 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

I was just wondering that this thread will heat up again and here it is . If that kind of tax is slapped on the M&Ms and the Tatas, both Mr. Tata and Mr. Mahindra will book the first available flight to New Delhi and strangle our FM to death.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
We really have to take ET news with a bucketfull of salt.
But then this is a big point, actually for any news coming from the Times group, all the salt from the Rann of Kutch will fall short .
samarjitdhar is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2012, 22:40   #739
BHPian
 
nareshtrao's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 410
Thanked: 331 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
Thank you guys for taking the trouble, the link opened finally in my browser. Have seen the comments on the article posted by someone, ET is simply trying to press the panic button amongst the car buying populace. Once it happened during the pre-budget months (slapping of 80K as excise duty on diesel cars) & it is happening now again. We really have to take ET news with a bucketfull of salt.
It is more than 80 K now. No reasoning to the values for small and large cars.

Govt may slap Rs 1.7 lakh tax on small diesel vehicles - The Economic Times

Mods... Please delete this as the referred article already exists in another post. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Last edited by nareshtrao : 12th June 2012 at 22:41.
nareshtrao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2012, 22:50   #740
BHPian
 
dhuli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 196
Thanked: 47 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

I am unclear - is this proposed tax on small and mid-sized diesel vehicles only for new vehicles or is it a retrospective thing...like the vodaphone cap gain tax. I fear, one never knows. Any idea? Thanks.
dhuli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th June 2012, 23:39   #741
Senior - BHPian
 
ninjatalli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: BOM
Posts: 1,606
Thanked: 1,177 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhuli View Post
I am unclear - is this proposed tax on small and mid-sized diesel vehicles only for new vehicles or is it a retrospective thing...like the vodaphone cap gain tax. I fear, one never knows. Any idea? Thanks.
It has been purposely left ambiguous! So that one and all can discuss all scenarios and create more noise. Expect more such "news" in the coming days using this news article as a source or a starting point.
ninjatalli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2012, 00:04   #742
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,062
Thanked: 291 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

1.7L! Now where did that figure come from? They haven't even quoted someone from the ministry. I feel TOI gaining some readership, that's all. Next step is people will start buying LPG/CNG fueled vehicles. Then what? Increase LPG/CNG prices? Then some genius will invent a device to enable your vehicle run on kerosene? LPG cylinders being used illegally will make a comeback? Where will this end?

All I can say is the Govt has lost its plot and is in a state from which they cannot recover.
blue_pulsar is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2012, 00:11   #743
BHPian
 
Fornax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bombay
Posts: 288
Thanked: 79 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
Expect more such "news" in the coming days using this news article as a source or a starting point.
This is not "news" - its' news. Confirmed by chevy dealership, who was ruing the fact that Beat diesel and Cruze are gonna be severely impacted.

OT: The below is purely of a rantish nature
Also, just a couple of points on the whole subsidy debate, yes we all certainly want the subsidies to continue, but the truth is, these subsidies (read bribes) are robbing you and me of a good government. Why should a bunch of politicos be given such a large budget to ensure continuity of support from masses? Aren't Subsidies, Quotas, Reservations, Food Security, PDS, NREGA etc nothing but political tools to help the governing bodies ensure continuity. Make a large section of population dependent on these, and it guarantees their votes. In their absence, good governance become the only criteria for selection of representatives, which clearly is unheard of in our political circles (barring GUJ, from the facts emerging from that state).

Secondly, on the question of taxation - its' imperative that we (the people) pay tax on a commodity which skews the import-export balance and benefits only 1.8% of the population!

List of countries by vehicles per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Fornax is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2012, 00:37   #744
BHPian
 
dhuli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 196
Thanked: 47 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue_pulsar View Post
...Then some genius will invent a device to enable your vehicle run on kerosene?...
Precisely! If not invent a kerosene run engine, not to mention its own set of scams, there is an opinion in the same venerable ET (How big SUVs can be made to pay market price for diesel: Blog on Sum it up by Sumit Gulati | ET Blogs) where you have a blogpost/opinion about how to use some chip in vehicles that talk to the diesel dispensing pump to deliver diesel at regular or subsidized price!!! I love technology and provides me bread and butter, but this is insane.
dhuli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2012, 07:56   #745
Senior - BHPian
 
selfdrive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,697
Thanked: 2,111 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Quote:
Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
In a word - Govt must do at least ONE thing for the tax paying middle class.
That line sums it up for me. The main problem with our successive Govts has been that they are unable to enforce rules. hence they bring up new ones. In the same breath, they are unable to ensure everyone pays true and correct income tax, so they have brought all the other expenditure taxes.

The employed class is the only section which has no option but to pay full tax. I am not saying the other self employed dont pay full tax, but they have an option to get a CA to fix their accounts to 'save' tax. In any case, its not really TDS for them is it?
After this we pay tax on every damn thing we do.
And like any self respecting value obsessed Indian, we demand what we get in return. Bad governance, poor roads, scams all over the place, etc. you know the list so no point repeating I guess.

I read somewhere that the FM was quoted as relying on 3 things to keep the economy from nosediving. Interest rate cycles, Normal monsoon and a third that I dont remember. None of which are controllables. This is not the wya to run a country. Unfortunately, it never has been any other way. This is not administration or farsightedness. just making the rules as we go. Equality and fairness be damned.
selfdrive is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2012, 08:44   #746
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NH209
Posts: 1,607
Thanked: 700 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Maybe, this too is like the petrol price hike. Mention 1.7 lakh, all heaven break loose, then make it half of that, people would still accept it with only a murmur.
ramzsys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2012, 08:57   #747
Team-BHP Support
 
Vid6639's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 14,468
Thanked: 19,375 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Apart from the buyers, I feel really sad for the manufacturers. Seeing the trend, Auto cos. invested a huge sum in diesel engined cars in India.

Now after spending so much and thinking they will get a return on investments, the Govt. wants to quash diesel cars as well.

Sales are already at their lowest thanks to petrol prices and most of manufacturers like Tata, Mahindra, Maruti, GM, Ford, Skoda and VW will have nothing to offer to the indian car buyer if prices of diesel cars goes up.

The repercussion is huge. Not only will individual buyers be affected with the increase in prices, but travel operators, taxi owners will have no choice but to look at other options and jack up their fares.
Vid6639 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2012, 09:26   #748
BHPian
 
R-Six's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ahmedabad
Posts: 220
Thanked: 131 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

I’m surprised at the arguments the Honorable Minister had put forward as arguments. “The proposed additional excise duties were equal to the minimum benefit that a diesel car owner derives from the fuel’s price differential with petrol at current prices that too over a 10 year span of time”.

Ministry’s attitude summarized: It doesn’t matter whether you drive a petrol car or diesel car, we know how to burn your pockets.

Just insane!

r-six
R-Six is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2012, 09:30   #749
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,019
Thanked: 526 Times
Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Eventhough the fuel pricing in India is a mess, one need to be little objective in analysing the same. There are lot of misleading reports that fuel prices in India is one of the highest. But facts mostly suggest that we are excatly at the middle. Countries like Brazil, Srilanka,Thailand, South Korea etc have more petrol prices as per Wiki.
Gasoline and diesel usage and pricing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Diesel prices also more or less at the middle. Also diesel is cheaper to petrol in most of the countries by comparable figures. The best thing govt can do right now is cut petrol prices by 5Rs and increase Diesel by an equal amount. This should bring more parity and prevent large scale migration to diesel vehicles.

Last edited by poloman : 13th June 2012 at 09:33.
poloman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th June 2012, 09:30   #750
Senior - BHPian
 
_raVan_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,058
Thanked: 486 Times
Default Proposal to increase the prices of Diesel cars put forward (almost 2.55L increase)

Article from TOI:

Quote:
If the government accepts oil minister S Jaipal Reddy's proposal, the price of small diesel cars could soon rise by Rs 1.7 lakh while medium-to-large guzzlers could become costlier by Rs 2.55 lakh a piece.

The Kirit Parikh Committee on fuel pricing reforms had recommended an additional excise duty of Rs 80,000 in February 2010 when duty difference on petrol and diesel was Rs 9.75 a litre and under-recovery on petrol was more at Rs 3.97 a litre than Rs 2 on diesel.
Source: Increase duty on diesel cars up to Rs 2.5 lakh: Jaipal Reddy - The Times of India

**NOTE TO MODS**: Please confirm if a separate thread is needed for this discussion or merge with the existing thread "Rationalizing Diesel Prices" as a similar post has been pasted in there.

Last edited by GTO : 14th June 2012 at 15:02. Reason: Keeping fair usage practices in mind, it is best to include an excerpt + link to full article
_raVan_ is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Swift Diesel, Saga continues. The DIESEL experience! Part II 72k kms Update Page 182. Now SOLD! Jaggu Long-Term Ownership Reviews 2988 21st September 2017 11:10
BMW to drop prices due to increased localisation. EDIT: New prices announced Aditya The Indian Car Scene 38 10th July 2015 21:19
Hyundai Cut prices- New detailed prices. harry10 The Indian Car Scene 5 9th December 2008 00:45
Are these good prices for Tata\Fiat vehicles? Corporate Offer Prices sahakar The Indian Car Scene 15 8th July 2008 23:03


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 01:06.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks