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Old 13th June 2012, 14:23   #781
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

i think what will have is a larger impact is on the complete auto industry. Today in the morning, all the auto shares were down by one %age or 2 %age.

At least i have dropped the idea of buying the new safari now. By the time they will launch , some price hike would have happened because of this proposal.
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Old 13th June 2012, 14:25   #782
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Originally Posted by idea
This certainly will have extension to cover existing diesel cars.

Phase 1. Put surcharge on new cars. 1.75 Lakh and Up. (This will cover new entrants)
Phase 2. Increase rate of Diesel for all applicable private diesel cars (This will cover all existing private diesel car users.)
The idea is great as all ideas generally are. But any idea is only as good as its implementation!
They should reduce the excise and state levies on both fuels and price them on par with each other.
That would be the best solution.
If prices rise so be it. Grin and bear it.

Alternatively bring road taxes on par everywhere. Make a common MRP kaw for cars. One India, One price policy.
Remove autonomy from states to fix prices. Remove entry tax and Octroi and all that antediluvian nonsense. Enable free movement of goods and business.
Use the road taxes paid to build infrastructure and speed up movement of goods. Reduce the chaos at toll booths and check posts by using technology.
Save money by reducing fuel wastage.

Is all this likely? No prizes for guessing the answer, given the way things are, in India!

In this place, implementing the red agri diesel concept etc has its limitations because there is a natural hurdle to enforcement and implementation. Anyway most of the big boys own farms and whatnot, even though they reside in the city. Finally only the common man will pay the prices diligently because he follows the rules.


Time to seriously consider emigration it seems?
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Old 13th June 2012, 14:29   #783
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
According to some of my pals Oz has had max rainfall this year after ten years!
Totally OT, but since Oz sees its summers when we have winters, the record rainfall could be a result of the La Nina last year. I am not sure how El Ninos or La Ninas affect Oz but El Ninos surely screws up the Indian monsoons. Along with the Southern Oscillation trends, seems like monsoons are stalled for now, but then our IMD loves to live in a world of denial. The best site to track this is here ENSO Wrap-Up.

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If they give me decent, safe public transport with last mile connectivity I will use that during the week and take my car out only on weekends!
That money has been siphoned off to offshore accounts years ago.
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Old 13th June 2012, 15:09   #784
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
New Jersey does not subsidize Fuel. Where did you get this from?
I meant dollars per gallon is cheaper than litres per rupee for gasoline. Let indian govt reduce taxes substantially.

Almost every american uses a car and a family has at least 3 cars. If they keep an exhorbitant tax on gasoline, they will earn a lot, but they do not do so as it will affect the common man. Car is the lifeline of the average american.
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Old 13th June 2012, 15:23   #785
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
Time to seriously consider emigration it seems?
Hello Shankar,

You have hit Bulls Eye. Same is exactly what I am feeling since last two years. I am working in software industry & I am seriously considering settling at a foreign Country.

I sincerely for going off-topic in this thread, but seriously our future in this country is not clear.

Take an example of a Salaried individual earning Salary of Rs. 7 - 10 lacs p.a. If his wife is not working, he can manage to save maximum Rs. 2 / 3 lacs per year. Considering other expances like marriage, child, education, hospitilization, new House, etc, he could save maximum save Rs. 40 lacs in 20 years, which will be peanuts at that time...

Thanks,
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Old 13th June 2012, 16:27   #786
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

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Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
I meant dollars per gallon is cheaper than litres per rupee for gasoline.
That's true for the whole of the USA. I didn't get the New Jersey specific thing.
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Old 13th June 2012, 16:28   #787
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Quote:
Originally Posted by idea View Post
This certainly will have extension to cover existing diesel cars.

Phase 1. Put surcharge on new cars. 1.75 Lakh and Up. (This will cover new entrants)
Phase 2. Increase rate of Diesel for all applicable private diesel cars (Thiw will cover all existing private diesel car users.)
Why on all cars!

Dual pricing WILL not work. It will become like LPG!

Quote:
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Slowing demand is just one measure but it will not help the 1,80,000 Rs of loss from the Diesel subsidy. This money is not lost now from future cars, but from the ones that are plying on the road. By slowing the demand you can restrict the 1,8 L Cr to say 2 L Cr rather than say 2.2 L Cr (just for the sake of argument, not stats)
What subsidy. They are still recovering more in various levies that the so called subsidy.

Mera Bharat Mahan; Furnace Oil costs more than Diesel. Rationalise all taxes on all fuels, charge full price, and then let the demand find its own levels. Some gains:

1. Kerosene sales will drop.We will get less pollution due to purer Diesel. Nepal is the example.

2. The silly idea of people doing 10000km per annum driving diesels will go.

Diesels will still sell, in Europe the 2010 sales of Diesel cars was more than that of Petrol cars, even though barring France (which also has powerful Truckers and Farmers unions) Diesel costs about the same as petrol. Reason higher efficiency and better mileage.

Last edited by sgiitk : 13th June 2012 at 16:29.
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Old 13th June 2012, 16:37   #788
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Petrol is costly and hence Petrol cars are not affordable.
Diesel is affordable but Diesel cars are costly.

What should a person drive at the end of it all??

Will an increase in duty on Diesel Cars make people feel happy to fill more Petrol at the going rates?

Well fine, Crude prices are now settled and marked as per international prices. But at least get the pending reforms in place. At least some reason for the masses to be happy??!!

There is one ruling government which is corrupt and there is one opposition which is devoid of any good ideas / forward thinking. God knows what 2014 holds!
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Old 13th June 2012, 16:44   #789
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
That's true for the whole of the USA. I didn't get the New Jersey specific thing.
New Jersey lacks public transport in many places like say Peapack, Bridgewater etc, so govt instead of taxing fuel heavyly, they even reduces some taxes during recession and times when fuel hit $ 4+ / $5+ a gallon in 2008.

When inflation is high, fuel prices are already sky-rocketting, rupee falling, Our efficient govt is increasing fuel prices by 7.50 and thinking of applying a tax on diesel vehicles.
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Old 13th June 2012, 16:58   #790
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

Quote:
Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
New Jersey lacks public transport in many places like say Peapack, Bridgewater etc, so govt instead of taxing fuel heavyly, they even reduces some taxes during recession and times when fuel hit $ 4+ / $5+ a gallon in 2008.

When inflation is high, fuel prices are already sky-rocketting, rupee falling, Our efficient govt is increasing fuel prices by 7.50 and thinking of applying a tax on diesel vehicles.
The US is the world's 3rd largest Oil Producer. US produces 4 times as much oil as the United Arab Emirates.
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Old 13th June 2012, 17:52   #791
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
The US is the world's 3rd largest Oil Producer. US produces 4 times as much oil as the United Arab Emirates.
At least the Indian Govt can keep a fixed tax of say Rs5 per litre or Rs 10 per liter and like shankar balan pointed out, remove all taxes like ocroi, entry, VAT, Sales tax etc and pass on the benefit to people. I am sure govt will not do it. just venting my feelings
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Old 14th June 2012, 01:43   #792
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

I think fuel in heavily taxes both by center & state Governments, in the name of subsidy every one who uses petrol needs to pay up more. Most of the subsidized kerosene goes into black market, adulterating diesel & petrol, resulting in higher pollution and ultimately resulting in higher medical cost and maintenance cost.

By rationalizing all the fuels and removing the stupid subsidy is the only solution. I guess no government has the guts to do it.

Across the world gas prices are dropping and our folks are going the other way. Ridiculous
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Old 17th June 2012, 11:53   #793
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

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The US is the world's 3rd largest Oil Producer. US produces 4 times as much oil as the United Arab Emirates.
It is on the way to becoming No 1, if reports are to be believed.
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Old 17th June 2012, 17:29   #794
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

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It is on the way to becoming No 1, if reports are to be believed.
Hello Aroy,

In my opinion world Crude market is already controlled by US in one way or the other.

Crude is produced in Middle East & other countries, but its prices are decided by NYMEX & other Commodity markets in US. Which means that exploration & production happens on other countries, by Prices are decided by punters sitting in US.

Also US has ensured that it controls major oil producing countries & its governments - Iraq (US elinimated Saddan purely for OIL), Saudi Aradia & now it is after Iran.

Thanks,
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Old 17th June 2012, 17:40   #795
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Default re: Rationalising diesel prices*Update: 50p rise/month announced*

By the way, US was one of the earliest drillers of oil, way back in nineteenth century. That is when amongst others Rockefeller made their fortune.

US is the dominant oil consumer today, about 23MBL/day if my memory serves me right. It also puts some of the imported oil into its "Strategic Reserve" - storing it in old oil wells for future.

US has a lot of potential oil tied up in the "Shale Oil"/"Tar Sand" in Alaska, which will be commercially viable in future, but strategically important always.

As long as cheap oil is available, US will conserve its own resources for the day when oil runs out and only a few will have it.
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