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View Poll Results: Do you use a baby / car seat (if there is an infant in the car)?
Yes 33 62.26%
No 20 37.74%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 5th November 2008, 15:36   #16
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Thats a good move taken by the government. Even I heard that the Ministry of Roads and Highways is planning to make the baby cars seats mandatory. But what about the old cars that are already in market? How will those cars have that? or is the rule only for the new car launches?
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Old 5th November 2008, 15:56   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sameel View Post
...lets wait and see what happens when one case where a car crashes and due to this waste set up the baby will be killed!!
Are you trying to say that child-seats make it MORE dangerous for children??
I think your logic is flawed in this case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sameel View Post
...be it seat belt or airbag. in the european cars they have sensors that detect the presence of a baby seat and accordingly the seat belts are pretensioned! ...
The ideal place for a child-seat is the rear-center (or diagonally across from the driver). If the child seat is placed in the center (where it should be) the seat-belts are not even ELR, so there is no question of pre-tensioning!

Im not sure, but i think for much younger infants the seat is to face backwards (since their necks shouldnt have to deal with the greater deceleration forces of regular braking), and when they are older/stronger you can have the seat facing forwards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sameel View Post
and airbags are not completely deployed!( full deployment will kill the baby!!!) ...
This is to do with airbags.
The sensor is only in the front passenger seat and the reason it disables the airbag is because most children sit on the front edge of the seat, and an airbag going off at head-level for them can break their necks.

This situation would not arise with child seats because they would be in the rear! (Not to mention that the child would have to be properly strapped in and hence not able to lean forward / sit on the edge of the seat in the first place).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sameel View Post
an accident happens the seat belts get locked .this can actually hurt the baby seated in a baby seat ...
Not at all!!
The child has absolutely no contact with the car's OEM seatbelt!!!
The child-seat has its own seatbelt.
(You might be confusing a child-seat / car-seat with a booster seat).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sameel View Post
i for one never allow my nephews( very little 2-6yrs ) sit inside my car with out seat belts being strrapped on! thats all that is needed. ...
Typically when a child is 3-4yrs and 40+lbs they switch from a child-seat to a booser seat. This prevents the top strap of the seatbelt from going across their neck/face -- which makes a big difference in the case of an accident.

Anyway, what about children from ages 2 and down? There is no way they can sit in a standard car seat/booster seat with a seatbelt!! Child-seats are designed specifically for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sameel View Post
seat belts mostly in european cars specially desinged so as to be compatible with baby seat!...
If you read the article, this is exactly what the law is about!

Quote:
Originally Posted by From the article
The CRS — defined by the ministry as an “arrangement of components (combination of straps, buckles, adjustment devices, supplementary devices such as carry cots etc.) capable of being anchored to power driven vehicles” — will, despite being mandatory fitment, be removable.
cya
R

EDIT: Here is what a car seat looks like!

Name:  car_seat.jpg
Views: 1664
Size:  50.6 KB
Source: Alameda County Emergency Medical Services

Last edited by Rehaan : 5th November 2008 at 16:07.
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Old 5th November 2008, 15:57   #18
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Thinking big is good.
but implementation should also be good.

We do not have lanes on roads, street lights are pathetic, forcing people to use high beams.
people use whatever kind of number plates, and some do not even use.
Seat belt rule is there, no cop bothers.

list is endless..

I also used to brighter side, but now I am pessimist...

Good thinking, but show some light, then we are ready to follow.
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Old 5th November 2008, 16:11   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chncar View Post
I am not against the rule per se, but I think there are a lot of more basic laws that need to be actually enforced:
  • Helmets for ALL 2 wheeler riders including the pillion
  • Helmets for Children
  • Seat belts
  • Genuine testing at RTOs
  • Special training, testing for commercial license holders including truck/bus/van/auto drivers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Theoretically, this move is good, but not in reality.
We have many things to worry about more than the child seats.
What about the crash safety standards ?
What about the basic driving discipline ?
What about ABS, atleast ?
What about 3-point seat belts for all the five passengers ?

This will just give rise to more corruption. People wont use the child safety seats and then the usual routine of Rs. 50 as fine without receipt stuff would begin.
Also if they make this move, then do they even think of the quality of seats that are sold ? About their availability ?

A new rule that will be confined to books and corruption. Nothing more. We need to work upon core values and then these things will automatically follow.
+1 to both of the above. Sensible as the move may be, I agree that there are much more important things to take care of.
And enforcing new laws just gives the average corrupt traffic cop to pull vehicles over, pocket some money and move on to the next law breaker.
The much talked about seat belt rule was never really enforced, and lost steam a month or two after implementation.
First and foremost, there needs to be a shakedown on the number of corrupt traffic officials, and RTO's must be VERY strict about who they give licenses to.

What about motorcyclists with their wives on the pillion hanging on to tiny children?? Shouldn't there be a law against that? If there can be a law against the number of people in rickshaw's there must be a rule against this dangerous practice.

While the child safety seat rule will be most welcomed, i maintain it will do little to change the state of Indian road safety
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Old 5th November 2008, 16:14   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sriturl View Post
...but implementation should also be good.....
Well this is a move by the government to ensure that manufacturers provide what is necessary for those people who are concerned about their childrens safety and wish to use a car-seat but never had the required "infra-structure" in the car to correctly install one.

Whether you use one or not (at this stage) is still up to you.

A very welcome move, atleast for those who care.
(https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modif...seat-kids.html)

Unfortunately for the others, it might mean that your car's purchase cost goes up by 50-500Rs (depending on whether the government or the manufacturers bear the cost).

cya
R

Last edited by Rehaan : 5th November 2008 at 16:16.
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Old 5th November 2008, 16:24   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sameel View Post

be it seat belt or airbag. in the european cars they have sensors that detect the presence of a baby seat and accordingly the seat belts are pretensioned! and airbags are not completely deployed!( full deployment will kill the baby!!!)
This kind of car detecting the presence of child seats may be only in high end cars in Europe. Isn't that the case? In most car manuals they advice the child seat to be fixed either in the rear seat or to switch off the airbag if the seat has to be fixed near the airbag.
Regarding the belt, isnt it just used to secure the child seat in place and it doesnt really put around the child?
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Old 5th November 2008, 16:40   #22
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Great reply. i like the fact that you have addressed all the flaws in his justification for it being a hazard than a safety benefit.

It is rather sad that people don't realise the safety potential in such great initiative taken by the government. (which are few)

A lot of countries do not even allow children below the age of 10 to be seated in the front seat.

The main thing is that an infant is more safe strapped in seat than the mother or anyone while in a moving vehicle.

I hope people get more realistic and weigh the benefits before making such childish statements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
Are you trying to say that child-seats make it MORE dangerous for children??
I think your logic is flawed in this case.

Last edited by Technocrat : 5th November 2008 at 16:51. Reason: no need to quote the entir post if the quoted post is on the same page
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Old 5th November 2008, 16:42   #23
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a good move by the Govt. but im sure many other features such as airbags should be made mandatory too.
btw,in kerala there is a rule that says all cars bought after 2003 only have passengers putting seat belts mandatory,i often think about those pre 2003 car goers,do they get excused by someone Above for this kind of govt. decision?? and would baby seats have this kind of exceptions too.

Last edited by Rehaan : 5th November 2008 at 17:51. Reason: gud = good. Please avoid SMS language on Team-BHP. It is against the rules and can earn you an infraction.
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Old 5th November 2008, 17:09   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ariendj View Post
a gud move by the Govt. but im sure many other features such as airbags should be made mandatory too.
It would be great to have airbags as mandatory, but airbags are useless if the person doesn't use a seat belt, so unless the culture of using seat belt by default exists, we will have a situation where the algorithm will either prevent the airbag from deploying, or the airbag will be useless and even dangerous.

So the govt can make some rule stating that cars sold after 2010 should have airbags etc, but the seat belt rule needs to be enforced strictly and without exception NOW so the culture of using seat belts without even making a conscious effort exists.


Now when it comes to the point of police enforcing anything, I have noticed that Police are scared or hesitant to stop/fine/enforce anything with car drivers as opposed to 2 wheelers or autos as people driving cars are likely to have some connections that they call and reference to get out of trouble and even threaten the police. So from the police standpoint its not worth the trouble to stop and check cars. Nowadays everybody and his dog has some political connections.

Last edited by chncar : 5th November 2008 at 17:12.
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Old 5th November 2008, 19:30   #25
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I'm glad that the government and authorities are thinking about safety. Its a good move.
I just wish (as already mentioned by several in the thread) that their concern for safety would be more holistic and they would realise that improving qualities of roads, making seat belts compulsory, being very strict with rash driving, isuueing of licenses etc, and being strict with simple road rules, making pedestrian walking safer etc should be given the same, if not more, priority as child seats.
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Old 5th November 2008, 20:50   #26
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Child seat is a very good move. No doubt. but, how about children travelling along with adults on a two wheeler?

Its a daily sight to see mothers sitting sideways as pillion rider and carrying a child in her arms. In most countries you will be in jail for this. I don't think they can restrict this in India.

In US they have statistics to prove how child seats can save children.

Explanation about US car seat regulations are here.

AAP - Car Safety Seats: A Guide for Families - 2008

If you have 2 kids, then you need to have 2 car seats and your car back seat is fully occupied with them. So only two more people including driver can travel in a car here. So the Vans like our Innova are very popular with families having multiple kids.

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Old 6th November 2008, 00:08   #27
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Steven Levitt of Freakonomics fame gives an interesting set of statistics on child seats. ( It doesnt present a full picture, but gives some food for thought.. )

Dont know if the link will work well, here goes..



[utube]um5gMZcZWm0[\utube]
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Old 6th November 2008, 05:16   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sameel View Post
here we go again. Sheeeessh!!
absolute Crap this is india..not Europe!
this might become yet another reason for cops to fine people!!

all this while we had nothin and now this..!!
yeah whatever!!

lets wait and see what happens when one case where a car crashes and due to this waste set up the baby will be killed!!

when will these people learn.

wht the heck arent they making Air bags compulsary in all new models! ..only the Crap rules like these come up..idiots!! :X

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Damn ! How could you write this? And you say you are an engineer in Robert Bosch.

Firstly, you assume that the child seats are always in front seat(which is not recommended, and in case you put it there, it is suggested to switch passenger airbags off). For children under 2, it is always reverse facing child seat on rear seat. Which acts as a cocoon for the baby.

Read up more on the advantages of child seat before you come up with baseless comments.
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Old 6th November 2008, 05:55   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ariendj View Post
a good move by the Govt. but im sure many other features such as airbags should be made mandatory too.
btw,in kerala there is a rule that says all cars bought after 2003 only have passengers putting seat belts mandatory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenjiRoss View Post
I'm glad that the government and authorities are thinking about safety. Its a good move.
I just wish (as already mentioned by several in the thread) that their concern for safety would be more holistic.
Yep, you guys are right but I guess it's better to move a step at a time, than not move at all.
Slow and steady in the name of progress.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
What about kids travelling on motor-bikes and auto-rikshaws? How do you ensure their safety? What about taxi's? The unions will promptly call for a strike to oppose the 'harassment' being caused to their drivers by the cops.
I'm not sure about this but I think I have seen kids on motorcycles in the U.S.; no car seat but they do have tiny little helmets - must be some cut-off age limit.
Taxis will probably be exempt from this rule. It's kind of impracticle, right?
Not many Fiat / PAL / Amby taxis even have seatbelts in the front.

But then, taxi unions don't really need a reason to strike anyways - they just do it for kicks when they're bored and don't have too many pedestrians to run over, or private cars to crash into!

Last edited by aah78 : 6th November 2008 at 05:56.
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Old 6th November 2008, 10:17   #30
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lots of replies here.

whats the matter with you guys.

now i know babies are more important than the passengers inside a car.

Bosch should make baby seats instead of ABS units!!


i have no issues with what you guys blabber about my claims or whatever.

i have responbilities to make a Car more and more Safer and feul effecient along with more power thats what we guys here are concerned with!

i dont give a damn about baby seats!

and please show me a car in india where one can simply turn off the Air babgs when a baby seat is kept in front. haha.

as far as i know ESP can turned on and off in vehicles but not airbags!

and yes people never follow the instructions given for baby seat!!

one case is when the baby seat is ideally to be placed at rear just for ease of reach they are placed at the front and yes for the same reason at the rear also the baby seat is kept facing the front of the car!

and you expect of all us indians to follow the instructions!! hahaha
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