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Old 11th November 2008, 18:20   #16
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
With 660cc engine in Japanese state of tune, Yes. But for India they will need a bigger engine and that will be a bit detuned or India, so again the FE wont be 20 unless driven with a very light foot on expresshighways.
If 660 cc is good for Japan, then its good for India. They have much higher speeds in Japan. Also take a look at the bhp, its no weakling.

How do you know FE wont be 20? 1.5 liter i-Dsi can give 22+ on the highway.
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Old 11th November 2008, 18:29   #17
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Originally Posted by appuchan View Post
This car looks more like they have fused together two Honda Dio scooters on its sides
That was hilarious!!!
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Old 11th November 2008, 18:48   #18
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The car looks very much for purpose than styling. If honda gets the pricing correct, then they wont be able to sell volumes for the car. But i dont think Honda is yet ready to get into the small car market where maruti is dominating.

They need to get into the market with Jazz first and start over with more facilities and service centres around the country and then go for a ultra small car, where the volume matters.
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Old 11th November 2008, 22:05   #19
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Look at the amount of glass. Looks like there is more glass than metal.

Guys, whoever feels that Swift is claustrophobic, this car is for you!
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Old 11th November 2008, 22:31   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
1) If 660 cc is good for Japan, then its good for India. They have much higher speeds in Japan. Also take a look at the bhp, its no weakling.

2) How do you know FE wont be 20? 1.5 liter i-Dsi can give 22+ on the highway.
1) If the state is not detuned and torque is available even with high specific output, then its great news. But IMHO, the engine will be detuned. And we have to worry about torque more that outright power, IMO. My calculation was a bigger, say 1.0 ltr motor with safe tuning for Indian fuel. Put it between Alto and Wagon R ( that is what mostly A-star is going to do ) on pricing front.
Also, the same strategy by others " our car is XXXcc and that is less by XX/XXXcc.
But I would repeat, if the state of tune is not degraded and atleast bottom end torque is available, then its good news. High FE compared to present 800cc and we will have Suzuki and Dihatsu ( through Toyota ). Waiting to see that day.
I feel that extracting high torque with high specific output from 660cc will be tough given our fuel quality. That why posted that this car need bigger motor.

2)
I meant that if the engine is Japan spec then only 19-20kmpl can be expected in city driving, otherwise 20+kmpl only possible on highways.
And no the highway, our M800 carb returns 20, Baleno returns 16-16.5, so for highway this car will be surely above the 22 mark.

Overall, if the same Japan spec model including ABS atlesat is available, the Indian small car market will benefit. Or else, not.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 11th November 2008 at 22:35. Reason: More detail.
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Old 11th November 2008, 22:48   #21
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what will be the price of Honds Jazz when released, any idea? I read somewhere that the transmission tunnel in it is reworked to give a flat leg room at back is it true?
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Old 12th November 2008, 01:45   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
1) If the state is not detuned and torque is available even with high specific output, then its great news. But IMHO, the engine will be detuned. And we have to worry about torque more that outright power, IMO. My calculation was a bigger, say 1.0 ltr motor with safe tuning for Indian fuel. Put it between Alto and Wagon R ( that is what mostly A-star is going to do ) on pricing front.
Also, the same strategy by others " our car is XXXcc and that is less by XX/XXXcc.
But I would repeat, if the state of tune is not degraded and atleast bottom end torque is available, then its good news. High FE compared to present 800cc and we will have Suzuki and Dihatsu ( through Toyota ). Waiting to see that day.
I feel that extracting high torque with high specific output from 660cc will be tough given our fuel quality. That why posted that this car need bigger motor.

2)
I meant that if the engine is Japan spec then only 19-20kmpl can be expected in city driving, otherwise 20+kmpl only possible on highways.
And no the highway, our M800 carb returns 20, Baleno returns 16-16.5, so for highway this car will be surely above the 22 mark.

Overall, if the same Japan spec model including ABS atlesat is available, the Indian small car market will benefit. Or else, not.
These are all myths.

Honda's most succesful product, the G2City that demolished the competetion was an 8 lakh car that made only 70 bhp while others were making upwards of a 100. Even if its detuned, I dont see this as a major concern.

Besides, lately Honda has not been detuning for India. It probably reflects years of taking data and feeling more comfortable with Indian fuel. The G3 City does not lose any power due to detuning.

Last edited by Mpower : 12th November 2008 at 01:48.
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Old 12th November 2008, 01:55   #23
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Its an interesting car, sure enough this is unappealing to the eye exterior wise but if it is priced right I guess it would make sense (if this was ever released in India). Then again like said in another post Honda prefers to be a premium brand.
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Old 12th November 2008, 02:49   #24
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the car has got nice ergonomics.. i specially like the cup holder on the rear seats.

but. this car reminds me of the nissan cube.
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Old 12th November 2008, 10:16   #25
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India is really interesting
- Japan main 660cc chalega but india main nahi bhai nahi chalega
- India main on the road Sab Jaldi main hain but always reach late to their
destination, no courtesies on the road leading to traffic jams.
- Sabko gaadi chahiye, parking ki jaga ho ya nahi. Govt. should introduce
parking tax for vehicles parked overnight on the public areas.

the car in ques here looks pretty neat, only sticking point will be price,
regarding 660cc that is more than enough for most indian city driving
of 20-60kmh

BTW is there any thread or initiative on this forum for creating awareness
of traffic rules and lane driving.
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Old 12th November 2008, 11:38   #26
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Guys,
The 6xx cc engines used in Japan by Suzuki and Honda are Turbocharged units.
They perform better than even our 800cc non turbo charged engines.
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Old 12th November 2008, 14:13   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
These are all myths.

1) Honda's most succesful product, the G2City that demolished the competetion was an 8 lakh car that made only 70 bhp while others were making upwards of a 100. Even if its detuned, I dont see this as a major concern.

2) Besides, lately Honda has not been detuning for India. It probably reflects years of taking data and feeling more comfortable with Indian fuel. The G3 City does not lose any power due to detuning.
1)
Looks like typing error. It was not 70 bhp, but 77 bhp. Detuned for us from 88 bhp.
But the unit was offering good torque that made it a perfect car for city driving. On paper it wasnt great, but in reality was good. If this is what comes in this Kei car, its fine. But it wont be able to have good power for our typical highways where we have to overtake fast as not each and every road is expresshighway atleast as of now in India.
IMHO, it can be concern.

I am not an engineer, but from previous and present Honda vehicles and other cars, I see it like this:
a) Lose on power and give torque = good for city, hit the highway and things change.
b) Dont detune = possible loss of torque.

I dont think that Honda will be able to deliver both, power and torque of lets a Xing or A-star or Wagon R with 660cc engine.
So here a larger heart can come to rescue. Lets say 1.0 70-72 bhp will manage everything.

2) G3HC engine is not detuned but it has lost the midrange grunt. Numbers are good, but then Fiesta with a less powerful motor manages to match it. The feel from 2K to 4K rpm is not good. Civic also has the same problem and so does Accord. This is the bigget fear of losing midrange. G3HC manages to have less loss as it is very long stroke motor.
Another fine example is Altis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCEite View Post
Guys,
The 6xx cc engines used in Japan by Suzuki and Honda are Turbocharged units.
They perform better than even our 800cc non turbo charged engines.
Not all are turbo. Take this example :
Introducing the new Stingray (Relax, it's a Suzuki) - Autoblog

Article :
Quote:
Three kei car engine options are available: a 54-horsepower normally-aspirated 658cc 3-cylinder with VVT, a turbocharged version putting out 60 horsepower, and a direct injection turbo good for 64 horses.
One more :
O Kei! Suzuki Cervo bows in Japan - Autoblog

Article :
Quote:
models receive the normally aspirated 54-horse 660cc engine, while T and TX get the more powerful 60HP turbocharged variant.
Honda is not very active in Japan in this kei car market. Mostly its Suzuki, Dihatsu and Mitsubishi.
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Old 12th November 2008, 23:50   #28
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I think Honda/Toyota are only for rich people's car. Most Indian's can only will able to buy some second hand Honda. This 2 comp does wanna rich to middle class budget (4-6L).
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Old 13th November 2008, 09:47   #29
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Originally Posted by Fountainheader View Post
The fog lamps look as big as the headlamps.

Looks, though subjective, are missing from this car. But I dont think Honda will ever launch such a vehicle. They are a premium-offering-brand you know!
It depends on the market where they are sold. Honda offers the least powerful car in US market currently. Honda fit -110 HP
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Old 13th November 2008, 09:53   #30
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I like this car better than current subcompacts on indian roads. Its time to let go the tall boy design. Remember how Suzuki spoiled nice looking Zen by launching Estilo. That extra head room is of no use with out increasing shoulder room and leg room. taller means higher centre of gravity and more chances of tipping.
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