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Old 15th November 2008, 14:45   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidwadia View Post
Well I booked mine keeping in mind the following :
.
frankly speaking , its just the power that i would care about , but then thats the trade off for fuel savings. However, Even on the power count , as mentioned in the earlier posts -the hybrid is a wee bit faster in the 20-60 dash.
Congrats Sid!

Your calculations certainly make sense in this case.
About the power front, having had a chance to drive the Hybrid (although for a small distance), the low end grunt certainly doesn't dissapoint! Remember an electric motor produces it full torque instantaneously and across a range of speeds. I think in this case 1000 rpm - 1900 rpm. Makes it very convenient to drive in the city.

I didn't get a chance to go flat out, so won't comment on highway performance
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Old 15th November 2008, 16:20   #152
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The 1.8 Civic does have drive by wire BTW.

'gratz on your purchase! Please keep us updated on it's life
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Old 15th November 2008, 16:25   #153
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Congrats Sidwadia, which color you choose, or is it also available only in white? I don't think there would be any risk involved after seeing your calculations and logics. 10 years warranty and 17 free services are the jewels in the deal. As far as the highways are concerened, the trafic on them is more or less like city trafic few years ago, so overall you'll enjoy every bit of it.
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Old 15th November 2008, 17:34   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidwadia View Post
Well I booked mine keeping in mind the following :
Hybrid : a) Battery pack warranty of 10 years by Honda
Doesn't it come with a lifetime warranty????
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Old 15th November 2008, 17:42   #155
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Originally Posted by Anurag1973 View Post
congrats sidwadia...hope your one of the lucky ones who get the delivery in this year :-)
Thanks Pathfinder,Anurag,swale84,ImmortalZ,Ym-enjn. After a long time , I feel i am getting a car that I would cherish for a long long time (read as - till the time the battery pack warranty is valid )

Guess what guys , I have managed to excercise a few contacts to ensure that I get the delivery by Thursday (from the existing stock).cheers:

Cant wait to get hold of this beauty and show it to my daughter on the 29th of Nov when I o to Ajmer to meet her (she studies in a boarding school at Ajmer).

But sincerely , I really appreciate the vigor & passion that drives everyone in Team-Bhp!!! It truly is amazing (being a newbie here, I am delighted )

Going a step ahead - I have already gone through the pre delivery inspection & checklist. Is there anything in particular that i need to check on for this car ? kindly advice.

Cheers
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Old 15th November 2008, 17:43   #156
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i had hoped for a better fuel effeciency for the hybrid. still this technology is in its infancy with one of the most critical points being the power pack. lets not run down hybrid cars too much tho, they are after all cars of the future.
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Old 15th November 2008, 17:45   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oss View Post
Doesn't it come with a lifetime warranty????
Apologies , just confirmed the same with Honda one 2 one , it comes with a 12 year warranty !cheers:

cheers
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Old 15th November 2008, 19:48   #158
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Muaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh! I just love this kind of analysis

PRICE:

Note : All prices on-road Mumbai. Bangalore will be more expensive while Delhi cheaper. FIRSTLY, there is a difference between the RTO taxation on either car. While the ex-showroom prices are:

Civic A/T : 1,349,800
Civic Hybrid : 1,402,300

The ON-ROAD price is THRICE the 53,000 difference. Reason? Yup, different tax slabs. Thus, the on-road prices are:

Civic A/T : 14.99.000
Civic Hybrid : 16.52.778

That’s a 1.53 lakh difference (and NOT 50,000 which some of you are made to believe). Source : Arya Honda + Linkway Honda.

SAVINGS WITHOUT COST OF BATTERY:

Lets say you drive an average of 15,000 kms per year. Thus, by going Hybrid on a running of 15,000 kms p.a., you are saving 20,000 a year. (15000 / 9.5 x 55) – (15000 / 12.5 * 55).

OR, in other words, 1,666 rupees a month!

BREAKEVEN POINT:

Pretty simple actually. 1,53,000 / 20,000 : About 7.5 years.

Now, what I don’t understand is, to save that 1,666 rupees a month, why would an enthusiast (or a premium sedan owner), for the next 7.5 years:

- Drive it like a 800. Yup, to get the famed mileage out of a hybrid, you have to drive it like a baby! I can’t understand why someone would buy a 16.5 lakh Honda Civic and then, drive it as carefully as a cab driver is trying to maximize the kms from his CNG tank.

- The Civic Hybrid is,ummmm, SLOW for even the standards of a segment below. A Hyundai Getz petrol will leave it for dead. So forget most sedans, all 5 lakh rupee hatchbacks will leave you for dead.

- Not suited for the highway : One reason is that, there isn’t any fuel efficiency advantage on the highway since the petrol motor is doing ALL the work. Second, you only have about 98 horses to overtake. Also, CVT transmissions are the WORST on Indian highways. Keep you stationed behind the truck you are trying to overtake, from Bombay to Nasik.

- Substandard Bumper to bumper performance : Look, there is a reason that the Prius sells 20 times more than the Civic Hybrid. The Civic Hybrid simply isn’t built for our traffic conditions. To quote content from a previous post:

Quote:
In the hybrid Civic, each time you lift the brake pedal (even if it’s just to roll down a slight incline), the engine restarts. The constant engine on, engine off, engine on, engine off is irritating and can at times feel quite jerky. In this respect the system is light-years behind the Prius, and it could be argued, even inferior to the original IMA system in the manual transmission 2001 Insight which at least allowed you to roll forward with the engine off.
.

There is a reason why the Prius dominates the hybrid market from the Civic.

- No choice of colours. You are restricted to white & silver. ONLY.

- A smaller boot.

I am still not clear about the battery warranty, exactly how many years does Honda cover the battery for? 4? 8? 12? If its 4 years of coverage, the Hybrid is more expensive to own. If its 8 years of battery warranty, then your 6th year resale value will be affected. 2.5 – 3 lakhs in replacement cost is a BIG DEAL. And you can bet that the used market will be the wiser. EDIT : Just read the previous post. I guess it is 12 years.

Come on guys, lets not kid ourselves. No one is buying the hybrid to save money. And if you do save any money (if at all, battery guarantee results pending), it is peanuts compared to what you are spending on the car in the first place. Its like an S-Class owner skipping desert on his 5 star meal to save 500 rupees on the bill. If you really want to save money, buy a cheaper car!! Are you telling me that you spend 16.5 lakhs on a car, and 1,666 bucks a month is so important to you that you make all those compromises? This is the kind of stuff that marketers laugh at, from behind their observation windows.

Look, if you want to save money, BUY A DIESEL. You will save 2 – 3 times the running cost per year. PLUS, you will be guaranteed a good resale. AND more than anything, a modern common-rail is FAST. You can torque the heck of that common-rail and still be faster, cheaper & more efficient than a Civic Hybrid.

And if you really want to save the environment, buy a smaller, inherently more efficient, car.

In my books, if I buy a Civic, I buy one for exploiting its potential. 1.8 M + slickshifting 5 speed. Its faster, quicker and cheaper to own over 10 years (hybrid resale still a grey area). Plus, I’ll be smiling every night and waiting to high-revv on the highway.

Last edited by GTO : 15th November 2008 at 19:50.
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Old 15th November 2008, 19:51   #159
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PLUS, lets not forget that the mighty Accord is only 2 lakh rupees up the food chain!
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Old 15th November 2008, 20:44   #160
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Well Sid, Congrats on the purchase. As stated, if in Gurgaon and if the on road price difference between hybrid and Civic automatic is just 50k, its a no brainer to go with Civic Hybrid. Here is why:

1) Its more loaded with goodies. Like Sid mentioned if you take into account the 2 airbags, the rear ac vents, etc. those features alone top 50k. Add to it the fact the car is an import, meaning better fit and finish.

2) Even if mileage savings are not phenomenal it can be safely assumed that one can recover 50k in a reasonable about of time purely on mileage retruns

3) Every where you go, and peeps ask you what you drive, you say Civic Hybrid. It changes ppls perception. Its definitely a good tag to be associated with.

4) Regarding Power, well 20-60 kmph torque enough can offset the high speed lag in my books. Considering the fact that apart from a few good highways in Gujurat or Bombay Pune expressway, most highways in India are not safe for speed in excess of 120 kmph. In addition one hardly gets to drive on highways on a daily basis. If highway running and power are primary drivers, than certainly this is not the car, than again Civic 1.8 Auto is no BMW M3 either. However as a practical everyday runabout car, this is indeed a sweet deal.

5) The argument this car is slower than Getz doesnt hold true in real life conditions. Since the torque available from electric motor in Hybrid is available till 60 kmph across the rev band, the car definitely has more in gear accerelation than Getz. In other words the Getz driver would have to be red lining his engine in first gear and second gear to beat the Hybrid. However in ideal conditions one rearly goes above 4k RPM even when doing spirited driving. There I dont see a Getz reaching 100 kmph faster than Hybrid in ideal on road conditions. Its more likely the Getz driver reaches 100 in 5th gear, by that time the hybrid thanks to its in gear accerlation would be miles ahead. In other words take an eg. how difficult it is for some petrol Swift to keep up with Diesel Swift even though it has more power... Thanks to the deisel Swifts torque under normal driving conditions it reaches 100 kmph faster than Swift petrol.

6) With 12 years battery garantee, you can indeed see a ROI of 2 years over standard Civic auto

If I was in your position and had 13 big ones in these troubled times, I would go with Civic hybrid. And dont worry about the resale, I live in Gurgaon and can take you up for a reasonable offer when you want to sell it in the future... lol.

Last edited by aseem : 15th November 2008 at 20:49.
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Old 15th November 2008, 21:07   #161
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Great analysis GTO, But is 12.5 kmpl for sure , even with sedate city driving nothing like 14-16 kmpl territory?
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Old 15th November 2008, 21:15   #162
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Expecting to taste out one by early next month. One of my office member booked it. It may be little late for her to get the car as dealer is offering her only white colour. She wants black.
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Old 15th November 2008, 21:37   #163
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With so much pollution around, should'nt Indian govt. be giving
tax breaks on hybrid cars to encourage it and make people more aware.
I am surprised Indian govt does the opposite , taxing hybrid more.

"The ON-ROAD price is THRICE the 53,000 difference. Reason? Yup, different tax slabs. Thus, the on-road prices are:

Civic A/T : 14.99.000
Civic Hybrid : 16.52.778

Thatís a 1.53 lakh difference (and NOT 50,000 which some of you are made to believe). Source : Arya Honda + Linkway Honda. "
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Old 15th November 2008, 22:19   #164
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The Prius is the original hybrid while Civic Hybrid is a Civic modified for hybrid capability. Also unlike the Prius which makes higher mileage inside the city, the Civic Hybrid makes more mileage on the highway - its practical for US highway commuting. Drive @ 65-70mph (most highway/expressways have speeds of 65mph or 75mph). So if its your daily 1hour commute back and forth, the Civic Hybrid does very well and gives you very high mileage relative to a regular Civic w/o sacrificing a regular car look and form.

Here is an interesting video comparo on performance of the 2 :-)
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Old 15th November 2008, 22:22   #165
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Why the different tax slabs? Is it because of CBU?
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