Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 13th November 2008, 20:22   #106
BHPian
 
quicksilver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Coimbatore
Posts: 455
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

I have reliable information that says the mileage is about 12kmpl in-city. So that sounds like correct information. Suddenly, that Hybrid is not all that great huh?

From what I heard, each dealer was given a Hybrid (or more, depending on their sales volume) that they either had to sell or use as demo cars. Invariably, they had to sell it to some unsuspecting customer, or register it as a demo car (none that I know of so far) which could explain the 60 cars sold so far.

I feel Honda is just clearing the stock as of now.. why?

1. There is nothing on the news recently about the excise/import duty cut for Hybrids.
2. Honda had imported/placed orders for 300 Cars which was their target this year
3. The Hybrid Civics are still CBU, it is not locally manufactured.

Sorry to have been wrong about the predictions, but looks like Honda shot themselves on the foot this time. The price would have made the car very attractive had the mileage figures been something like 18/20 kmpl.
quicksilver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2008, 20:27   #107
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 22
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Wow if the FE is only 12.5 Kmpl...whats IMA doing? How can the company claim an average of 20 kmpl?
Anurag1973 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2008, 20:28   #108
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,749
Thanked: 89,373 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
You could count the number of existing hybrid customers on your fingers; I don't think there will be too many cheesed off personalities around. This price cut is only to clear Honda Indias inventory, whether the stock thats already arrived in India or has already been pre-ordered by Honda India. At a price of 22 lakhs these cars have only been gathering dust in the stockyard.

Is the deal good enough? Of course. The price is mouth-watering for a hybrid Civic. You get a technologically advanced, high FE, low emission Japanese built car for a discounted price. A price that is lower than cost.

Is the Civic hybrid for everyone? Should existing Civic owners feel bad about their recent decision? NO WAYS. The Hybrid is most suited to the city and can't match the highway performance of the 1.8 petrol. And the battery will be expensive enough to negate any fuel saving costs over the initial 3 years. Lets say you drive 16,000 kms per year. Thats 48,000 kms in 3 years:

Fuel cost - Regular Civic : 2,77,894 (48,000 / 9.5 * 55)

Fuel cost - Hybrid Civic : 2,11,200 (48,000 / 12.5 * 55)

Now, add the 2.5 lakh battery cost at the end of 3 years. Would you spend 2,50,000+ lakhs to save 66,000 Sometimes it only takes simple math to see the light.

And don't forget : The Hybrid is a WHOPPING 3 seconds slower in the 0 - 100. Its more like Hyundai Getz petrol 0 - 100 territory. Those of you who are owners of the 1.8 : Congrats. Great choice. Happy High-revving!
Further to my previous post, lets not forget that the acquisition cost of the Hybrid is MORE than the regular Civic anyways. Plus, we don't know how the used market will treat the hybrid.

In all certainty, the Hybrid does NOT make any financial sense at all. And you don't even get a high-revving engine.....which is the beauty of almost every Honda Civic

Quote:
Originally Posted by laluks View Post
I feel great owning a 1.8 Civic and was never ever in any angle appreciating the mileage and savings figure for the hybrid as it was never any mind boggling figures like 20+km to a litre or so.
That's the spirit! To me it is the 1.8 that rocks. In manual please. Works out cheaper to own too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekji05 View Post
Great GTO. You always have some numbers to prove your claims.
Thanks Vivek. Your posts (especially those awesome TD reports) are always a pleasure to read too.

Quote:
Except for the air of 'environment friendliness' surrounding it, there is not much in the Civic Hybrid.
Absolutely. And you are paying a HUGE price for that "green" image. Want to really go green? Buy a Reva. Or drive a smaller - inherently more efficient - car.
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2008, 20:50   #109
BHPian
 
sriramv.iyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 835
Thanked: 710 Times
Default

We complained when it was 21.5L ex showroom. I have seen it in the Hybrid launch thread that it should be few lakhs less.

Now, they cut the price to 13.5L ex - We still complain

To me, it seems like 13.5L ex is a great price for the hybrid. Esp, considering that it is about 50K more than the 1.8V AT - You get the following:

1. 6 airbags instead of 2
2. Steering mounted audio
3. Hybrid technology
4. Dual Zone Automatic Climate control System[I think V has only a single zone ACC]

Hybrid technology alone is sufficient to justify the price of Hybrid over V-AT.

I don't deny that Civic V is overpriced by about 1L though. [Please dont flame me - Thats IMO]

Regarding fuel efficiency, the claimed fuel consumption is 40 MPG (city), 45 MPG (highway). Thats approx 17 kmpl (city) and 19kmpl (highway) - This should be under ideal conditions.

So, I think realistically it should give 14 kmp (city) and 16 kmpl (highway). Not bad, but not great either.

I hope the battery price will come down in the next 3 years - Only if the technology survives! If technology becomes widely adopted, battery prices could fall to real low levels. If the technology goes bust (which I dont think it would so soon), then the buyer will be battered in both battery price and resale fronts.

It is a risky decision, and it is upto the buyers to make it in an informed manner! People who base their decisions on fuel efficiency alone should read GTO's post again
sriramv.iyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2008, 21:02   #110
BHPian
 
Path_Finder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 623
Thanked: 5 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
You could count the number of existing hybrid customers on your fingers; I don't think there will be too many cheesed off personalities around. This price cut is only to clear Honda Indias inventory, whether the stock thats already arrived in India or has already been pre-ordered by Honda India. At a price of 22 lakhs these cars have only been gathering dust in the stockyard.

Is the deal good enough? Of course. The price is mouth-watering for a hybrid Civic. You get a technologically advanced, high FE, low emission Japanese built car for a discounted price. A price that is lower than cost.

Is the Civic hybrid for everyone? Should existing Civic owners feel bad about their recent decision? NO WAYS. The Hybrid is most suited to the city and can't match the highway performance of the 1.8 petrol. And the battery will be expensive enough to negate any fuel saving costs over the initial 3 years. Lets say you drive 16,000 kms per year. Thats 48,000 kms in 3 years:

Fuel cost - Regular Civic : 2,77,894 (48,000 / 9.5 * 55)

Fuel cost - Hybrid Civic : 2,11,200 (48,000 / 12.5 * 55)

Now, add the 2.5 lakh battery cost at the end of 3 years. Would you spend 2,50,000+ lakhs to save 66,000 Sometimes it only takes simple math to see the light.

And don't forget : The Hybrid is a WHOPPING 3 seconds slower in the 0 - 100. Its more like Hyundai Getz petrol 0 - 100 territory. Those of you who are owners of the 1.8 : Congrats. Great choice. Happy High-revving!
The crux of the issue here is not about financial sense of the hybrid! Or a performance comparison with its regular version. It never was and is not even now – point taken, but that is about it.

The key point here is on why such a steep price cut all of sudden with no direct reason and how that reflects on the business practices of Honda as a company.

The official statement only makes a claim that now Honda wants to make affordable the technologically and environmentally great hybrid vehicle to customers who want it. Why such a sudden noble thought? And that only in India? And that too at a time of recession. Obviously this cannot be digested and stock clearance is a good guess.

Well I bought a premium Arrow shirt from the mall at a premium price. A year later I found the same stuff at coupon bargain store at 50% discount. No worries since I know how this business works. But just imagine if I found the same stuff in the same mall a week later at 50% discount – and the store manager tells “Oh! We thought of making this more affordable to customers”
Path_Finder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2008, 21:16   #111
Senior - BHPian
 
narayan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 2,772
Thanked: 1,166 Times
Default

Well now that its kind of proven the HYBRID does not make financial sense at EVEN the present price ( after the cut ) - can anyone say whether it makes ANY SENSE at all ?

is this car "dramatically" less polluting than a 1.8 ? I believe not... even we we completely discount the fact that the battery pack is by itself polluting, won't the poorer highway efficiency ( and as a result poorer emissions ) negate the gains made in the city ?

am i missing something here ?
narayan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2008, 21:39   #112
BHPian
 
backrub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 196
Thanked: Once
Default

Yes, that was what I was also referring to before. i have also heard that the Civic hybrid does not return such a great mileage.

And I had once seen a chart which explains where all the hybrid motor comes into play.

But in a test drive report, at a steady 40-60 speeds the guys who took the test drive got 50km mileage.

It was in some auto magazine. But from the hybrid working it was clear that at the highway speeds the hybrid motor will not come into work, leaving the petrol engine alone as the one which pulls the car and so the same mileage as ordinary civic.

But it should be returning better mileage in city
backrub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2008, 21:46   #113
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 146
Thanked: 29 Times
Default

[quote=sriramv.iyer;1051903]
Regarding fuel efficiency, the claimed fuel consumption is 40 MPG (city), 45 MPG (highway). Thats approx 17 kmpl (city) and 19kmpl (highway) - This should be under ideal conditions.

So, I think realistically it should give 14 kmp (city) and 16 kmpl (highway). Not bad, but not great either.

Guys , after going through extensive reading on greenhybrid.com and hybridcars.com , the actual FE is above 40MPG (17kmpl). Earlier generation HCH were lower in FE , however HCH II seems to be delivering on its economy. Sure , these are examples of cars abroad where roads are better & traffic is smoother , yet would it be so different in India (12.5kmpl) ???

Also , as far as the battery pack is concerned , very few people who own this car have complained on the battery pack konking off within 4 years ) for earlier generation HCH ).

Do we have anyone in Team-bhp who owns / knows some one who owns the car to substantiate the same ?
Cheers
sidwadia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2008, 22:52   #114
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Sahil's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 5,202
Thanked: 2,094 Times
Default

GTO you are missing out a few essential things that the hybrid offers over the regular civic for nearly the same price:
1. 4 year or 80,000km maintance plan which covers almost everythings so you don't spend a dime in four years besides fuel.
2. 6 airbags
3. There is no thumb rule that the battery wears out in 3 years, checkout starscreams link it mentions that it's built to last a lifetime if treated well and used regularly.
4. Better low end torque and since the purpose of a hybrid is to use it in the city it would make it more peppy than the 1.8.
5. Autocar test states it's only 1.5 seconds slow to the ton than the 1.8 auto. Intact it's quicker than the 1.8 auto in the 20-80km/hr run.
Sahil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2008, 23:17   #115
BHPian
 
Path_Finder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 623
Thanked: 5 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anurag1973 View Post
Wow if the FE is only 12.5 Kmpl...whats IMA doing? How can the company claim an average of 20 kmpl?
Normal Civic AT actually delivers about 8kmpl in city. In comparison 12.5 is great. However I think the way the car is designed, in optimal usage it can deliver more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sahil View Post
3. There is no thumb rule that the battery wears out in 3 years, checkout starscreams link it mentions that it's built to last a lifetime if treated well and used regularly..
No battery will last forever lasting a lifetime could mean lifetime of 3 or 5 years!!
Path_Finder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2008, 23:21   #116
Senior - BHPian
 
StarScream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Noida/Delhi
Posts: 1,247
Thanked: 633 Times
Default

Ok fellas, I went to Prime Honda today in Ghaziabad and here is what they told me:

They've booked 20 cars since the news of the price cut broke. In fact, the 40 minutes that I was at the showroom, pretty much every customer that came in asked about the hybrid.
Prime is not taking bookings anymore. They've stopped because they are not sure they'll have enough cars to deliver. The salesman said he will have a clearer picture tomorrow and will call me. However, the offer from Honda is valid though December - go figure - how does that work if they don't have cars and this is an inventory clearance?

Prime says the mileage is between 17 and 20 kml in the city. One salesperson told me there is a 12-year warranty on the battery irrespective of mileage driven (that really can't be true IMHO). Another was even more generous, saying there is a lifetime warranty on the battery.

What they were clear about is this: The car comes with 4yrs/80,000 km warranty standard (this does not apply to the hybrid components, which as mentioned above range from 12 yrs to a lifetime!).

Hybrid owners will, in addition, get 17 free services - no labor, no parts cost! At a 5,000 km interval that means no service cost till 85,000 kms!

The difference in features b/w the hybrid and regular is 4 airbags vs 2 and a trunk lip spoiler.

They were taking 1 lakh for booking.

After this, I picked up my City - 70k service. The car purred so beautifully that it got me thinking - is the hybrid worth it? The thought is attributable in no small part to GTO and his "what to do with 7yr old car" thread (damn you GTO, damn you ).

The City gives me 13 kmpl. It has a bigger boot. Interior space is pretty good. Its emissions are about the same as the hybrid. There is nothing really wrong with it and in one year, I'll have no EMIs to pay.

On the other hand, I've always wanted the hybrid and this is such a sweet deal. But despite the fuel and servicing cost savings, I'll still end up paying 10k a month more for the hybrid compared with what I pay for the City, according to my calculations.

And times are bad. This is a time to hunker down - not buy a new car and take on more debt. Why do all the good deals come in the middle of a recession???

I hate this - being torn between good sense and really bad pangs to buy something new.

Last edited by StarScream : 13th November 2008 at 23:26. Reason: additions
StarScream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2008, 23:40   #117
BHPian
 
sameer_dg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 129
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

I totally agree with GTO. I think with the current steel prices the cost of cars should at least come down 25%
sameer_dg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2008, 23:55   #118
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NAMMA BENGALURU
Posts: 5,613
Thanked: 2,459 Times
Default

GTO- your simple maths was a real eye opener.

50% discount, never happened anywhere--Guys lets not forget Deawoo sold 2 Matiz's at 1.50 lacs to clear stocks before shut down.

With the present kind of economic slump, the spark may also face the same fate.

Whats the use of 12kmpl and being hybrid, it still gulps fuel.
PAVAN KADAM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2008, 23:57   #119
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 569
Thanked: 5 Times
Default

The Honda Civic Hybrid, unlike the Toyota Prius cannot run without the petrol engine running. The logic is that if you press the brake the engine stops and if you release/press the accelerator, the engine starts. What that means is that in bangalore's inching traffic, the engine will start/stop every few seconds and it will be jerky as hell. The prius instead would in a similar situation run on the battery and not turn on the engine to move an inch or two. Hence the 12kmpl for the civic hybrid in our city traffic conditions. Given this situation it is not great car for city traffic and with the small boot, it is not a great car for the highway/long distance..not the greatest car for Bangaloreans..

Last edited by rangaraj : 13th November 2008 at 23:59.
rangaraj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th November 2008, 00:13   #120
Senior - BHPian
 
ImmortalZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 2,133
Thanked: 139 Times
Default

You misunderstand how it works. If the car "jerked" every time it stopped and started, no one would buy it.

In actuality, the process is nearly transparent.
ImmortalZ is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The BMW X1 at Rs.15,999 EMI (limited time offer) RIC.BURNS The Indian Car Scene 101 9th August 2013 15:04
My friend has got an offer in Dubai-Is it a good offer ? snaronikar Shifting gears 50 14th June 2010 16:27
VW Jetta limited time offer 3yrs/45,000km maintence free package + Insurance Free Sahil The Indian Car Scene 15 17th April 2009 23:00
Honda "Civic Hybrid" coming. EDIT : Now launched @ 21.50 lakhs amit The Indian Car Scene 149 30th September 2008 22:52
Bajaj Alianz Car Insurance offer: is it a good offer amya Indian Car Loans & Insurance 7 25th January 2008 12:08


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 20:13.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks