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Old 14th November 2008, 00:22   #121
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Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
You misunderstand how it works. If the car "jerked" every time it stopped and started, no one would buy it.

In actuality, the process is nearly transparent.
Source: AutoWeb - Honda Civic Hybrid

But in the driving – especially in city conditions – it is well behind the Prius and the calibration of some aspects of the electric system had us quite puzzled.

The main problem is intrinsic to the Honda system. Unlike the Prius, which mounts its electric motors in what can be termed the gearbox, Honda’s Integrated Motor Assist places the electric motor on the end of the engine’s crankshaft. Simply put, the electric motor cannot propel the car forward without the petrol engine also turning. In this latest Honda approach, the engine’s valve openings can be configured to effectively decompress the engine, thus enabling the electrics to power the car in certain narrowly defined conditions without having to push against engine compression. But in the vast majority of cases, if the car is moving forward, the petrol engine is running.
Click for larger image

That might not sound like a big deal but step out of a Prius, where - like the Honda - the engine stops when you stop, and the Civic’s petrol engine seems to be drinking fuel on dozens of occasions when the car should be drifting forward on electric power alone. The best example is in a slow moving traffic jam. In these conditions, the Prius petrol engine will stay off for hundreds of metres at a time. In the hybrid Civic, each time you lift the brake pedal (even if it’s just to roll down a slight incline), the engine restarts. The constant engine on, engine off, engine on, engine off is irritating and can at times feel quite jerky. In this respect the system is light-years behind the Prius, and it could be argued, even inferior to the original IMA system in the manual transmission 2001 Insight which at least allowed you to roll forward with the engine off.

The calibration of the electric assist is also a little odd. Even when the high voltage battery is full (battery level is shown on a dash gauge), the degree of electric assist that occurs at small throttle openings is subdued. So as an example, if you’ve driven down a long hill and the battery has been topped-up through regenerative braking, you’d then expect to see better fuel economy as the system actively use up that stored energy. But the Civic has none of that: it’s frustrating to see the instantaneous fuel consumption gauge at the maximum of 12 litres/100km during acceleration – and the electric assist gauge showing that little or no electric power is being drawn from the full battery to help the car along. The system is also calibrated to keep the high voltage battery level quite high - so there’s not a lot of room left for power storage from regenerative braking.

We’re sure Honda engineers must have very good reasons for these calibration decisions, but they’re not clear to us.
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The Toyota Prius is most at home in stop-start city driving. At speeds of below 32km/h, the Prius can drive entirely on battery power. At a complete stop, the engine is switched off to save petrol. When you take off, the vehicle seamlessly changes between battery and engine power, or both when full power is required. The driver can also elect to operate entirely on battery power (providing enough battery charge is present) by pushing a button on the dashboard.

The Civic only switches off its engine when the vehicle comes to a complete stop and the driver has their foot on the brake pedal. The second the brake pedal is released, the engine comes back to life and powers the vehicle.
Source: http://www.caradvice.com.au/2214/toy...rid-road-test/
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Old 14th November 2008, 06:00   #122
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Default Honda sells 98 Hybrids a day after price cut

Honda sells 98 Hybrids a day after price cut

NEW DELHI: Honda Siel Cars India sold 98 Civic Hybrid cars on a single day on Thursday, much more than what it managed in the entire five months since the premium hybrid’s launch in India, thanks to a whopping Rs 8 lakh, or 40%, price cut.

Honda is aiming to sell another 100 cars in the next few days. Company officials maintained that the reduced price is a limited-period offer—a marketing tack frequently used in the Indian auto industry.

With Thursday’s orders, Honda has sold out the first batch of Civic Hybrids it had imported from Japan. The second batch is already on its way. “A big consignment of these cars will be reaching India in the next few days. We will also take more orders as per the demand from our dealers,” the HSCI spokesperson said.

Civic Hybrid, at its new price of Rs 13.36 lakh, is now almost cheek by jowl with the petrol-fired Civic, which costs Rs 12.86 lakh (ex-showroom Delhi) for the top variant. The price parity has led to increase in demand for the hugely fuel-efficient hybrid in metros like Mumbai and Delhi, and fuel-sensitive areas like Punjab and Hyderabad.

“Customers are extremely attracted by the high-fuel efficiency of the hybrid,” said a Delhi-based Honda dealer, who clocked a dozen bookings for the car on Thursday. With electric motor support, Civic Hybrid delivers an average of 20 km per litre of petrol. Also, the hybrid system comes with a lifetime warranty.

Source : Honda sells 98 Hybrids a day after price cut- Automobiles-Auto-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times
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Old 14th November 2008, 06:49   #123
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The difference in features b/w the hybrid and regular is 4 airbags vs 2 and a trunk lip spoiler.
If you are looking at external differences, there is more than the lip spoiler. Alloy wheels and low resistance tyres, a diffuser under the front bumper, the unique antenna and the single tail pipe.
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Old 14th November 2008, 11:17   #124
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Honda sells 98 Hybrids a day after price cut
It seems quite a few were just waiting for the price to drop. Question is if this demand is sustainable. As shown by GTO earlier, the running cost of Hybrid is still much higher than normal civic, and I feel the Indian psyche is unlikley to bring a sustained demand to this product even at this price.
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Old 14th November 2008, 12:20   #125
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This thread was begun to inform folks about the price fall etc...
But I must say that Its been such an eye opener and very informative. That calculation by GTO was on the dot. I'm learning quite a lot. Cheers TBHP!

Last edited by johnda : 14th November 2008 at 12:22.
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Old 14th November 2008, 13:14   #126
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Why aint anyone adding the cost of charging the battery to the average running cost. Even if it adds Rs 1/- per Km that will make a huge difference and might take up the running cost to same as 1.8 Civic.

With the facelift Civic expected so soon, Honda might have thought to dispose off the old model (current) Civic Hybrids at such discounted rates. Never think Honda to be a generous company, they keep giving their customer shock after shock. Even all people buying Hybrids now will feel cheated as the new model will reduce the market resale price. And ofcourse the new model will have much more features then Hybrid and a better price then the V.. (remember the suzuki Esteem 'my daddy's big car' ads just before the model was discontinued and people falling and buying.)

Last edited by Ym-enjn : 14th November 2008 at 13:23.
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Old 14th November 2008, 13:19   #127
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Originally Posted by Ym-enjn View Post
Why aint anyone adding the cost of charging the battery to the average running cost. Even if it adds Rs 1/- per Km that will make a huge difference and might take up the running cost to same as 1.8 Civic.
That's because the Civic's battery does not need charging. It's not an electric car it's a hybrid car.

The offer is there only till December. My guess is that they ordered a lot of cars and are not able to sell the numbers. So they have left over stock. Now if they keep it till 2009 no one will buy the 2008 cars so to get rid of it they reduced the price and are selling it on offer.
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Old 14th November 2008, 13:26   #128
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Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
… So they have left over stock. Now if they keep it till 2009 no one will buy the 2008 cars so to get rid of it they reduced the price and are selling it on offer.
slightly OT, but wonder why they are not doing the same to get rid of NHC Zx stocks? BTW official stance from Honda is that this is not a clearance sale, but just their generosity in making the technologically advance hybrid affordable to those who wish it.
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Old 14th November 2008, 13:50   #129
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To add, this offer is valid only for a limited period.
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Old 14th November 2008, 13:56   #130
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...this is not a clearance sale, but just their generosity in making the technologically advance hybrid affordable to those who wish it.
This should have certainly got everyone

Now we all know that Honda loves us all Indians a lot!
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Old 14th November 2008, 14:39   #131
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So, I think realistically it should give 14 kmp (city) and 16 kmpl (highway). Not bad, but not great either.
I dont have actual figures but I suspect if highway FE of hybrid Civic is better than the regular CIVIC as it doesnt get benefit from the regular braking/slowing down (which is when it gets recharged) as in the City condition. On the other hand, smaller engine and higher weight (due to battery etc) can bring down the FE.
Another factor is, what is the boot space left in the already small boot of Civic?
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Old 14th November 2008, 14:50   #132
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With Thursday’s orders, Honda has sold out the first batch of Civic Hybrids it had imported from Japan. The second batch is already on its way. “A big consignment of these cars will be reaching India in the next few days. We will also take more orders as per the demand from our dealers,” the HSCI spokesperson said.

Why, if this is an inventory clearance sale, are they bringing in another boatload? We haven't got the complete picture behind the price cut. To me it seems like HSCI is trying to prove a point - either Honda India is trying to prove to the parent that there is a huge market for hybrids in India if priced right or Honda is trying to prove something to the Indian government.

Civic Hybrid, at its new price of Rs 13.36 lakh, is now almost cheek by jowl with the petrol-fired Civic, which costs Rs 12.86 lakh (ex-showroom Delhi) for the top variant. The price parity has led to increase in demand for the hugely fuel-efficient hybrid in metros like Mumbai and Delhi, and fuel-sensitive areas like Punjab and Hyderabad.

Apparently, I read somewhere that the 50,000 rupee difference between the petrol V AT and the hybrid is on account of the `free' extended warranty and servicing being offered on the latter. They've just built it in into the price of the hybrid.

Also, the hybrid system comes with a lifetime warranty.

There's some more confirmation of lifetime warranty on hybrid components.
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Originally Posted by vivekji05 View Post
If you are looking at external differences, there is more than the lip spoiler. Alloy wheels and low resistance tyres, a diffuser under the front bumper, the unique antenna and the single tail pipe.
Thanks for pointing those out. I was told of those two primary differences by the salesman. BTW he told me the tires are regular and not low rolling resistance ones.

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Originally Posted by psp62in View Post
It seems quite a few were just waiting for the price to drop. Question is if this demand is sustainable. As shown by GTO earlier, the running cost of Hybrid is still much higher than normal civic, and I feel the Indian psyche is unlikley to bring a sustained demand to this product even at this price.
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Originally Posted by johnda View Post
This thread was begun to inform folks about the price fall etc...
But I must say that Its been such an eye opener and very informative. That calculation by GTO was on the dot. I'm learning quite a lot. Cheers TBHP!
Actually, the running cost will be lower than the petrol Civic given what we know now. The battery is covered by warranty for a long time. GTO factored in the replacement cost. And there is no labor/parts cost for 17 services. All this in addition to the saving on fuel.
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Old 14th November 2008, 14:56   #133
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Another factor is, what is the boot space left in the already small boot of Civic?
The hybrid's boot capacity is 376l vs about 405l for the regular petrol version.
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Old 14th November 2008, 15:03   #134
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BIG NEWS :

one of my friend went to Ring Road Honda, Peeragarhi to book the hybrid and to his utter surprise, the salesman told him that all hybrid cars have been sold !!!!
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Old 14th November 2008, 17:42   #135
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Yes its true, I too went today as same showroom. They have stopped booking as they has 100 cars and all sold. Honday has stopped booking till they any news for new lot coming from Japan, but for the time being they have stop taking any other booking for Hybrid.
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