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Old 24th November 2008, 10:46   #61
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@ watashi and aaggoswami: yes buddies, even i am talking about low speed collisions which are very prominent in cities. i would not prefer a car which will damage its radiator if i crash it at speeds of 30-40 kmph, will you? so i feel such impacts beams are absolutely necessary even from safety point of view.
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Old 24th November 2008, 10:53   #62
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Originally Posted by Gangsta View Post
that's not the torsion beam. That's a very thin plate of iron and its not for the protection. Its for the Radiator Support. Its useless at the time of impacts.
Ok I may be wrong then. It must be a good thing if the Santro has it. Now, why my Swift doesn't have it then? Having said that, I would still prefer a car that protects the passengers first and then the radiator.
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Old 24th November 2008, 10:57   #63
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such impact beams come into picture only at very low speeds buddy. as said, at high speeds they are useless. so at low/city speeds, nothing will happen to the passenger in the even of a crash, but of course, if he is wearing a seat belt.
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Old 24th November 2008, 11:05   #64
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Originally Posted by TOR View Post
The safety of any car would be dependent on the structural elements and the 'impact and crash absorbing zones' designed into the chassis.So would the same be different for the Indian Swift and the European swift.

Or is there any evidence that the Indian Swift Chassis/ monocoque is inferior built to that of the European one?
Do you really beleive Maruti cares so much about safety?

I dont want to bring up links to fatalities. A little google should help.

Most of our Indian car manufacturers care little for safety. ABS/EBD/Airbags to them sound more like a gadget rather than a safety equipment. IMO MSIL cares the worst imaginable amount of safety for its customers!

I was involved in an accident at a speed of only 40-50KM/H in my Zen (2003 Model) and I ended up with wheel axels broken and the front wheels hanging on tow which was a horrendous site for me. I love the Zen but the safety in MSIL Cars made me move away from them forever! Its my personal experience!
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Old 24th November 2008, 11:09   #65
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Title should be renamed.

Is the Swift prone to dents/scratches?

You have to get used to the shape of the Swift and esp the extended wheel arches will get scrapped as you cannot get that into your side rear view mirrors.

Even while reversing, you need to provide enough distance between the rear windshield (do i write it right) and the stopping point as the diki and the rear bumpers extended bit lengthier compared to other cars
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Old 24th November 2008, 11:13   #66
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Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
I was involved in an accident at a speed of only 40-50KM/H in my Zen (2003 Model) and I ended up with wheel axels broken and the front wheels hanging on tow which was a horrendous site for me. I love the Zen but the safety in MSIL Cars made me move away from them forever! Its my personal experience!
Hope you came out unhurt.

Do you think any other car on the same segment (diff manfu) could have saved your car as well without any damages i.e to the extent your zen suffered
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Old 24th November 2008, 11:29   #67
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My swift has a body which is like a trash can.Even if i try and lean on the car it caves in and a dent is formed.
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Old 24th November 2008, 11:30   #68
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Do you really beleive Maruti cares so much about safety?
I think they do. Atleast since the launch of the SX4. What you need to keep in mind is my friend most cars SMIL sells are targeted at the common man, who are least bit bothered about ABS, airbags, TCS etc. I am sure SMIL would have wanted to provide these on earlier models too, but would the additional cost in adding safety features be born by the end customer and appreciated? Will you pay 1L extra to have the features on a zen? You might, but will you dad, uncle, your neighbour who have lived with Amby's pay? Its business for them after all, if they find it profitable, will sell in good numbers they will. They aren't running a charity show here for us.

However with the influx of IT, with so many people travelling abroad, getting used to driving with safety features, the trend seems to be changing here too. Now people ask for safety features, mostly those who have been abroad and come back and not the average indian joe. Unless these numbers grow substantially we have to face the brunt.

I think we should actually be appreciating Hyundai and SMIL for initiating this change by giving importance to safety features with the advent of Elantra, SX4, Swift (some trims) etc. Its sacrilege on the part of companies like Honda to charge exorbitant prices for the NHC/Civic without any safety features. Now with SMIL & Hyundai going on overdrive mode, looks like the others are feeling the heat too (and hence we see them on Honda cars too).

Please do keep in mind that SMIL brought the safety features on the SX4 & Swift all by its own accord, unlike Honda who were forced into providing them with the fear of the opposition running away with their sales.
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Old 24th November 2008, 11:39   #69
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Swift handles pretty good, its bulky shell which adds to its beauty' if improperly judged may @ times raise a scratch...
we have a feeling of sitting low (as in most new gen cars) & peep hard to see the road next to the door...
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Old 24th November 2008, 11:47   #70
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Title of this thread is misleading.

Edit: Agree with mclaren1885. Can we have some of the Swift owners here share their personal experience of accidents? That will give a good idea about safety.
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Old 24th November 2008, 11:49   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
I think they do. Atleast since the launch of the SX4. What you need to keep in mind is my friend most cars SMIL sells are targeted at the common man, who are least bit bothered about ABS, airbags, TCS etc. I am sure SMIL would have wanted to provide these on earlier models too, but would the additional cost in adding safety features be born by the end customer and appreciated? Will you pay 1L extra to have the features on a zen? You might, but will you dad, uncle, your neighbour who have lived with Amby's pay? Its business for them after all, if they find it profitable, will sell in good numbers they will. They aren't running a charity show here for us.

However with the influx of IT, with so many people travelling abroad, getting used to driving with safety features, the trend seems to be changing here too. Now people ask for safety features, mostly those who have been abroad and come back and not the average indian joe. Unless these numbers grow substantially we have to face the brunt.

I think we should actually be appreciating Hyundai and SMIL for initiating this change by giving importance to safety features with the advent of Elantra, SX4, Swift (some trims) etc. Its sacrilege on the part of companies like Honda to charge exorbitant prices for the NHC/Civic without any safety features. Now with SMIL & Hyundai going on overdrive mode, looks like the others are feeling the heat too (and hence we see them on Honda cars too).

Please do keep in mind that SMIL brought the safety features on the SX4 & Swift all by its own accord, unlike Honda who were forced into providing them with the fear of the opposition running away with their sales.
Good points there and I do accept that MSIL & Hyundai should be credited for this!

But does safety stop with providing ABS/Airbags/EBD/EPS/TC! When the structural integrity of a vehicle is compromised to fit the cost?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surprise
Hope you came out unhurt.

Do you think any other car on the same segment (diff manfu) could have saved your car as well without any damages i.e to the extent your zen suffered
There were 4 occupants in the car who came out unhurt! Infact we were shocked to see the axle being broken for a minor collision!
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Old 24th November 2008, 12:04   #72
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Title of this thread is misleading.
I guess it is. Another point I forgot to add is the bulky A-pillar. I am yet to drive this car on track and see how bad/good the visibility is when you are going flat out into a corner is, but from my on-road experiences I can say that one can even miss a biker hidden behind the A-pillar if you are pushing into a corner specially in the ghats. The indica too had this issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
But does safety stop with providing ABS/Airbags/EBD/EPS/TC! When the structural integrity of a vehicle is compromised to fit the cost?
Yes, you are right. But once again, think about it from the business perspective. If they are providing safety features and trying to keep the end costs down, its obvious they are going to skimp on something (if not costs will increase, sales will drop). Besides, if you want to see the change, I think its high time we ought to be a part of it. How many of us here, e-mail the guys at SMIL with such complaints/feedback/suggestions? I do, and I know plenty of honcho's at SMIL who are reading every thread with the mention of the word SMIL or Maruti or any of its cars here.

Just another way to think about it, from the perspective of a businessman. We all know, in cities slow speed accidents happen all the time (mostly non-fatal). Give cars thin metal, damage is more, more is the profit for the company because of accidental repairs? I am not saying that is the reason why swift is tinny, but like I said they aren't doing this for charity. Its business for them. But one thing we all need to know is whether a car is tinny or built like a tank, on highways at high speeds it hardly makes a difference when you crash. Depending on speeds (from both vehicles/objects involved in a crash), angle at which impact happens, surface of the road, nature of impact even a tank like car with all safety features can kill a person. Best example in case, Princess Diana. So there is no point in contemplating what a car would have done if it had two more layers of sheet metal on it. Truth is, it will never end up the way we imagine it to once you end up crashing the car.
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Old 24th November 2008, 12:25   #73
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Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
I guess it is. Another point I forgot to add is the bulky A-pillar. I am yet to drive this car on track and see how bad/good the visibility is when you are going flat out into a corner is, but from my on-road experiences I can say that one can even miss a biker hidden behind the A-pillar if you are pushing into a corner specially in the ghats. The indica too had this issue.


Yes, you are right. But once again, think about it from the business perspective. If they are providing safety features and trying to keep the end costs down, its obvious they are going to skimp on something (if not costs will increase, sales will drop). Besides, if you want to see the change, I think its high time we ought to be a part of it. How many of us here, e-mail the guys at SMIL with such complaints/feedback/suggestions? I do, and I know plenty of honcho's at SMIL who are reading every thread with the mention of the word SMIL or Maruti or any of its cars here.

Just another way to think about it, from the perspective of a businessman. We all know, in cities slow speed accidents happen all the time (mostly non-fatal). Give cars thin metal, damage is more, more is the profit for the company because of accidental repairs? I am not saying that is the reason why swift is tinny, but like I said they aren't doing this for charity. Its business for them. But one thing we all need to know is whether a car is tinny or built like a tank, on highways at high speeds it hardly makes a difference when you crash. Depending on speeds (from both vehicles/objects involved in a crash), angle at which impact happens, surface of the road, nature of impact even a tank like car with all safety features can kill a person. Best example in case, Princess Diana. So there is no point in contemplating what a car would have done if it had two more layers of sheet metal on it. Truth is, it will never end up the way we imagine it to once you end up crashing the car.
I was not particularly talking about sheet metals. I am talking about critical components which would atleast add hopes to the safety of occupants in a Car! In my case it was the wheel axle which broke for a minor collision! I dont think thats a tinny part of the car to break off!

I understand its business that means a lot to MSIL. But is it safety that should be compromised for money?
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Old 24th November 2008, 12:41   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
I was not particularly talking about sheet metals. I am talking about critical components which would atleast add hopes to the safety of occupants in a Car! In my case it was the wheel axle which broke for a minor collision! I dont think thats a tinny part of the car to break off!
Like I mentioned earlier it all depends on speed, angle of impact, nature of impact etc. No two crashes of different magnitude will produce the same results or extent of damage. I can say that my zen saved me from a certain death. Read about it here.

PS: The point I am trying to make is that not every zen that crashed would have had its axle break loose. That must be a one off incident related to the condition of your car or the nature of impact. So one cannot generalize like that.

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 24th November 2008 at 12:42.
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Old 24th November 2008, 12:49   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gangsta View Post
We don't have such beams in Swift, but present in all Hyundai Cars. Instead of soft foam, Hyundai uses hard foam which also acts as the shock absorber for low intensity impacts.
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that's not the torsion beam. That's a very thin plate of iron and its not for the protection. Its for the Radiator Support. Its useless at the time of impacts.
Dude have ever seen any swift without it's front bumper in your life? If you have then you will know that the two red things in front of the radiator that you have called a very thin plate of iron is actually not a plate of iron at all. I dont know what that part is called but it is made of two very heavy gauge iron tubes connected in the centre to each other by a flat sheet of iron. That part is not connected to the radiator in any way.
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