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Old 21st December 2011, 20:28   #616
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post

I find nowadays that there are many individuals who buy high end vehicles and have them registered in Pondicherry, thereby saving lakhs in taxes. They run them for a year or so or more even, and then possibly either re-sell the vehicle OR get it re-registered at the depreciated rate.

This is a big racket here in Karnataka as can be seen from the sheer number of seriously high end vehicles which are registered in Pondicherry.
I'm sure if the Karnataka Govt. revisits he road-tax slab and modifies it for the better, or at least justify the massive tax by laying impeccable roads, the common rich-man () won't hesitate to pay the local road-tax.

Let's put ourselves in the shoes of a hard working executive who finally buys that BMW that he's been lusting after, and he pays a massive 5-10 lakhs, just on road-tax and registration.

And then one bright and nippy Sunday morning, he decides to go for a little drive in his cherished and prized possession, and he drives his car out onto the road and straight into the 1st pot-hole of the hundreds that he is bound to come across in his half-hour drive.

Tisk tisk. The problems the rich have these days.
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Old 21st December 2011, 21:19   #617
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

I cant answer for the common-rich man but as a regular bloke who has spent a lot of money buying a good vehicle, I, for one, want some better service from the blighters in government.
Especially considering the amount of money they lift from me by virtue of blighted taxes! Just like it is in any service industry, the people should be allowed to vote with their wallets ref tax payments - if the service by government to the people is bad, then we should be allowed to impose penalties on the government by paying less tax and of course if they do what they are supposed to do, properly, then there is no problem with them levying a fair tax rate!

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
I'm sure if the Karnataka Govt. revisits he road-tax slab and modifies it for the better, or at least justify the massive tax by laying impeccable roads, the common rich-man () won't hesitate to pay the local road-tax.

Let's put ourselves in the shoes of a hard working executive who finally buys that BMW that he's been lusting after, and he pays a massive 5-10 lakhs, just on road-tax and registration.

And then one bright and nippy Sunday morning, he decides to go for a little drive in his cherished and prized possession, and he drives his car out onto the road and straight into the 1st pot-hole of the hundreds that he is bound to come across in his half-hour drive.

Tisk tisk. The problems the rich have these days.
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Old 21st December 2011, 22:01   #618
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

Got my XUV about a month ago on TR, specifically so that I can go and register it in Kerala where I have my vacation home. My situation is such that I have offices in Hosur, and Bangalore, and I'll be traveling to Kerala almost once in two months. But my primary residence is here in Bangalore. I will be registering it in Kerala because I don't believe the KA government deserves an additional 1.5 lakhs from me as road tax for such pathetic roads.

In any case I will have proof in the car at all times that I entered the state recently, so I don't foresee any issues even if I get pulled over.
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Old 22nd December 2011, 11:02   #619
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
I'm sure if the Karnataka Govt. revisits he road-tax slab and modifies it for the better, or at least justify the massive tax by laying impeccable roads, the common rich-man () won't hesitate to pay the local road-tax....
If one stays in some state and earn his livelihood, he has to obey rule of the land. It is always debatable whether rule is right or wrong. Good and bad roads are everywhere whether you are talking about Karnataka or any other state.

Kerala guys himself says that their state have worst set of roads in India. At least Karnataka has better roads than Kerala.
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Old 22nd December 2011, 11:16   #620
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

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Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
If one stays in some state and earn his livelihood, he has to obey rule of the land. It is always debatable whether rule is right or wrong. Good and bad roads are everywhere whether you are talking about Karnataka or any other state.

Kerala guys himself says that their state have worst set of roads in India. At least Karnataka has better roads than Kerala.
The issue is about avoidance not evasion, KL roads are not terrific, but rural roads are any day better, but at 6% tax, that is what we can expect. Obeying the law of the land is not something noble if it messes with self preservation. I think Rossiter has mentioned 1.5 lakh reasons why he shouldn't hand over any money to the KA government, if you live in BLR , all the good roads are tolled, so no obligation to pay road tax unless you can't escape at all.
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Old 22nd December 2011, 11:23   #621
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

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Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
If one stays in some state and earn his livelihood, he has to obey rule of the land. It is always debatable whether rule is right or wrong. Good and bad roads are everywhere whether you are talking about Karnataka or any other state.

Kerala guys himself says that their state have worst set of roads in India. At least Karnataka has better roads than Kerala.
Sir,

I'm a student of law, and I'm well versed with the rules and laws of the land. There are several rules and laws that have been formulated and incorporated, and most of them work on the basis of perception, and the 'Indian mentality'. Now there is noting wrong with it, per se. However, it can be given a re-look, as some of these laws are a little backward and not keeping with changing times.

For example, in the case of a road accident where there is a death, the deceased will ALWAYS get the benefit of doubt, and the defendant will always get the end of the stick. The case isn't given a thorough visit. Similarly, the smaller vehicle will always be the vehicle that is 'never at fault', even if it was completely his fault. And there is nothing much we can do about it, unless we have new panel of judges, and authorities who are broad-minded.

Similarly, the statutes of taxation has been determined by the State Govt. instead of the Central Govt. Something I fail to understand, because you are first an INDIAN, and only then are you a Kannadiga, or a Malayali or..

So the laws must be made so that everyone is benefited. And at the moment, it looks like the laws have been made to benefit the netas.

In a country like ours, the rich will remain rich, and even get richer, while the poor will remain poor and probably get even poorer. So under the pretext that the the poor need assistance, the netas will fleece the rich, and instead of giving to the needy, will keep it for themselves.
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Old 22nd December 2011, 12:12   #622
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

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Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
The issue is about avoidance not evasion...
It is clear cut evasion of taxes when one stay primarily in Karnataka and pay taxes to other states. Yes, one cannot decide whether paying taxes is noble or not.

Even, USA also has same policy of migration and transfer.

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I'm a student of law...
I respect your views. I already said, it is always debatable that rules made are correct or not. There is no doubt about it.
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Old 22nd December 2011, 12:22   #623
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

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Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
It is clear cut evasion of taxes when one stay primarily in Karnataka and pay taxes to other states. Yes, one cannot decide whether paying taxes is noble or not.
If there is a provision within the law which states that one can own a vehicle in any state he resides in, provided he can substantiate the same, and also justify his entry and departure to and from another state he is currently in, i dont see how it can be deemed as evasion of taxes, and be termed as illegal.

After all, the law does have the provision for it, right?
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Old 22nd December 2011, 12:42   #624
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

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Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
It is clear cut evasion of taxes when one stay primarily in Karnataka and pay taxes to other states. Yes, one cannot decide whether paying taxes is noble or not.

Even, USA also has same policy of migration and transfer.



I respect your views. I already said, it is always debatable that rules made are correct or not. There is no doubt about it.
The issue is not about taxes, death and taxes are two certainities in life and arguing about it is a waste of time. As benbsb29 has explained, the law has a provision for it, no one has an obligation to increase his tax liability.

I don't know the US system,although even the US has something sounds like a lame excuse. I am sure the refunds happen faster there, I am willing to bet that increases the compliance.

Anyway if you live and work in KA(as opposed to running a business across states), you have no option but to pay up. I drive a KA registered car, so the crackdown doesn't apply to me, I would tell the folks who can avoid paying to continue to do so. Sorry, I am not a great fan of law enforcement and I would say it's right to pay up the day we have enforcement of traffic rules in KA as opposed to extortion.
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Old 22nd December 2011, 12:48   #625
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

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Originally Posted by benbsb29 View Post
If there is a provision within the law which states that one can own a vehicle in any state he resides in, provided he can substantiate the same, and also justify his entry and departure to and from another state he is currently in, i dont see how it can be deemed as evasion of taxes, and be termed as illegal.

After all, the law does have the provision for it, right?
Yes, if one visits other state temporarily and goes back to original state, in that case he should not pay up taxes. Not in the case, where one buy house and stay there and his kids going to school in same state still he drives cars from out of the state.

We as Indian are super thinker in case of evading and breaking law and getting away of it. We always think there is substitute of law which doesn't suits us.
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Old 22nd December 2011, 12:54   #626
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

The General Tendancy in Bangalore is " Swalpa Adjust Maadi".. translates to pls adjust .

There is a news yday or day before in the papers in Blore of a Rs 5 hike in milk prices per litre. That works out to a cool 20% hike. Not a voice of opposition is heard. No News papers wrote columns. No TV channel had live debates. Im sure most people wouldnt have even read about it.

When Kerala govt decides ( or even thinks) to hike the price of milk by a rupee, the states goes to a stand still with hartals/bandhs/strikes/rallies what not.News papers carry pages of literature about it, past hikes ,the impact etc etc. All channels have live debates. People come out and ensure the hike is withdrawn

So they wont dare to increase the 6% RT to even 6.1 %, but in Karnataka, even if there is a hike, we would just say " swalpa adjust maadi"
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Old 22nd December 2011, 13:06   #627
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

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Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
Yes, if one visits other state temporarily and goes back to original state, in that case he should not pay up taxes.
Well there has to be a bit of a perspective to the word "temporarily" that you use here. I am also temporarily here in Bangalore (come from North India) and will be going back in near or far future. Now when that will happen I myself dont know. I might stay here for years or might have to move next month or so if I lose my job and cannot find another of if I get a better one elsewhere.

I guess I should not pay up taxes.

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We as Indian are super thinker in case of evading and breaking law and getting away of it. We always think there is substitute of law which doesn't suits us.
Its not just us indians. Everywhere all around the world people evade taxes/ break law. I read somewhere tax collection in US is just 30% of the potential. That, in a country notorious for its tough Tax laws!!! The source for this info is the highly acclaimed book "Freakonomics".

Last edited by joslicx : 22nd December 2011 at 13:09.
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Old 22nd December 2011, 13:42   #628
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

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Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
The issue is about avoidance not evasion, KL roads are not terrific, but rural roads are any day better, but at 6% tax, that is what we can expect. Obeying the law of the land is not something noble if it messes with self preservation. I think Rossiter has mentioned 1.5 lakh reasons why he shouldn't hand over any money to the KA government, if you live in BLR , all the good roads are tolled, so no obligation to pay road tax unless you can't escape at all.
There is one thing charging money from taxes, quite another doing 'development work' with it. Delhi@ 4-10% road tax has best roads in the country today. Surely, Bangalore should do better since it charges more tax. I am afraid, it doesn't work like that.
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Old 23rd December 2011, 05:09   #629
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

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Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
Yes, if one visits other state temporarily and goes back to original state, in that case he should not pay up taxes. Not in the case, where one buy house and stay there and his kids going to school in same state still he drives cars from out of the state.
Looks like you missed the point i was making. If there is a provision, which is within the rules, then why not make use of it? To me, if you are able to mould your situation to the way you want it, yet remaining compliant with the rules, then that's smart-thinking.
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Old 23rd December 2011, 14:15   #630
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

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However, it can be given a re-look, as some of these laws are a little backward and not keeping with changing times.
As a student of Law you know it. Law is an A**! There are so many laws in our country that are outdated and need to be amended. In our parliamentary system it is not easy to amend these laws easily. Sadly each and every political party has their own agenda and look at scoring political mileage out of any issue rather than good for society.

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Similarly, the statutes of taxation has been determined by the State Govt. instead of the Central Govt. Something I fail to understand,
Well there are central and state taxes. Road tax happens to come under state jurisdiction. State Governments have their budgets and they need revenue. With different states, we are bound to have varying levels of taxes. Sadly we happen to be in the state with highest taxes. We don't have a choice. Or do we? Vote out the Govt. , vote for a Govt. which will see our point of view and reduces road Tax

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In a country like ours, the rich will remain rich, and even get richer, while the poor will remain poor and probably get even poorer
I hope you are not referring to the poor little rich guy who is getting poorer by paying road tax on his new Audi .

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Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
Its not just us indians. Everywhere all around the world people evade taxes/ break law. I read somewhere tax collection in US is just 30% of the potential. That, in a country notorious for its tough Tax laws!!! The source for this info is the highly acclaimed book "Freakonomics".
Please do not break the law or evade taxes because others are doing it. There is a difference between evading tax and avoiding tax. When you evade, you ARE breaking the law. But you can avoid tax by being on the right side of the law. Like Benbsb29 mentioned, when there is a provision which says that if you can substantiate that your primary state of residence is outside Karnataka and you are here on a temporary visit, then you are avoiding the tax by carrying these documentary evidences at all times and being smart about it.

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When Kerala govt decides ( or even thinks) to hike the price of milk by a rupee, the states goes to a stand still with hartals/bandhs/strikes/rallies what not.
These hartals/ bandhs/ strikes / rallies are what drove away all the industries from Kerala which is viewed as a very hostile place to do business due to its labour unions.
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