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Old 28th December 2011, 11:39   #646
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

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Originally Posted by vinaydas View Post
The question here is whether the rest of the people living here/permanently settled in bangalore (myself included) are fools to pay the hefty taxes?
Well some people here seem to insinuate that people from other states have not paid road tax! That is not the case friends. We also paid full LTT when we bought our cars.
Now when we have to move to KA, we have to pay this LTT again (which simply means double taxation!) how is that fair??? Equivalently you can say are we fools to pay tax again?

You can say that we can claim it back from our ex-RTO. But the same question arises again and again that nobody seems to be able to answer. Is there a guarantee they will pay back? We live in a country where people dont get their pensions years after retirement. I simply do not have faith in our govt offices (especially true for states like UP where the state govt itself takes "hafta" from its own departments - meaning they also have to take bribes to pay up the big bosses and there is no work done with out money being involved)

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Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post

When one gets a job in another city one has to do some research about the local laws and ways. Just like hunting for a house on rent/lease (rental laws) , finding a school for your children, etc... one has to research how strict the laws are about outside state vehicles in that place.
Ok Let us prepare this list of ToDos and NotToDos in various states for general population's benefit at large. We can publish this at various forums, send it to HRs of different companies who can give this alongwith job offer letters. As a responsible forum, it would be a good thing to do (and something constructive out of this thread)

So far, the state specific wierd laws I know of are:
1. If you are moving to MH, remove your music system and sell it. You could be caught for playing music and fined for that (there is a thread on this here on this forum)
2. If you are moving to Punjab, remove your alloy wheels, your side-turn indicators on the side-view mirrors, your fog lamps etc as you can be pulled over for these
3. If you are moving to KA, then pay up the road tax here. Doesnt matter it amounts to double taxation! People here dont care and neither do the govt. So pay up!
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Old 28th December 2011, 12:45   #647
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

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Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
Well some people here seem to insinuate that people from other states have not paid road tax! That is not the case friends. We also paid full LTT when we bought our cars.
Now when we have to move to KA, we have to pay this LTT again (which simply means double taxation!) how is that fair??? Equivalently you can say are we fools to pay tax again?

You can say that we can claim it back from our ex-RTO. But the same question arises again and again that nobody seems to be able to answer. Is there a guarantee they will pay back? We live in a country where people dont get their pensions years after retirement. I simply do not have faith in our govt offices (especially true for states like UP where the state govt itself takes "hafta" from its own departments - meaning they also have to take bribes to pay up the big bosses and there is no work done with out money being involved)



Ok Let us prepare this list of ToDos and NotToDos in various states for general population's benefit at large. We can publish this at various forums, send it to HRs of different companies who can give this alongwith job offer letters. As a responsible forum, it would be a good thing to do (and something constructive out of this thread)

So far, the state specific wierd laws I know of are:
1. If you are moving to MH, remove your music system and sell it. You could be caught for playing music and fined for that (there is a thread on this here on this forum)
2. If you are moving to Punjab, remove your alloy wheels, your side-turn indicators on the side-view mirrors, your fog lamps etc as you can be pulled over for these
3. If you are moving to KA, then pay up the road tax here. Doesnt matter it amounts to double taxation! People here dont care and neither do the govt. So pay up!
Agreed.

One one hand, KA govt will force you to pay the new tax. So you don't have choice whether to pay up or not. On the other hand, the old registration state won't bother much giving you back what is dues. Even if they do, its a big hassle. So, effectively, you pay up twice.

What if one moves to another state after spending 1.5 years in say KA. Should he pay up again. Its crap. Once the vehicle is bought, LTT is paid up. Story should end there.
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Old 28th December 2011, 14:11   #648
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

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Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
If you are moving to KA, then pay up the road tax here. Doesnt matter it amounts to double taxation! People here dont care and neither do the govt. So pay up!
Nobody here wants you to pay double tax my friend . You may not be aware, but the main reason for the crackdown is that some people residing in Bangalore are registering their cars in neighbouring states under false addresses to avoid the high road tax here. I don't know if you have noticed the large number of PY registered high end vehicles off late. It is because of this trend that cops have announced the crackdown and in the process some 'temporary' visitors are being inconvenienced.

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Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile View Post
Bottom line is , I don't support the practice of forcing people to pay up local taxes. Period!
Wow! If we have to go by this principle, the GOvt. of India should announce that they invite foreign companies and foreign nationals to come and do business in our country or get jobs without having to pay any tax to Govt. of India or any State Govt. or any other local body!

Last edited by Santoshbhat : 28th December 2011 at 14:14.
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Old 28th December 2011, 14:42   #649
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

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Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
Nobody here wants you to pay double tax my friend . You may not be aware, but the main reason for the crackdown is that some people residing in Bangalore are registering their cars in neighbouring states under false addresses to avoid the high road tax here. I don't know if you have noticed the large number of PY registered high end vehicles off late. It is because of this trend that cops have announced the crackdown and in the process some 'temporary' visitors are being inconvenienced.



Wow! If we have to go by this principle, the GOvt. of India should announce that they invite foreign companies and foreign nationals to come and do business in our country or get jobs without having to pay any tax to Govt. of India or any State Govt. or any other local body!
That's what happens when you pull up one line out of a paragraph. It becomes out of context. I said this because most people who are forced to pay up this tax have already paid the tax at another state. If getting back the other tax is as simple as paying up this tax (neither is, in actual practice), then a lot more people will be willing to pay up taxes. Also, when somebody moves out of Bangalore, he doesn't his tax back. So, it becomes one way traffic.

Anyway, my intention is not to make this' I v/s You' topic, I just don't support the practice. It's my personal opinion.
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Old 28th December 2011, 14:57   #650
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

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Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile View Post
That's what happens when you pull up one line out of a paragraph. It becomes out of context. I said this because most people who are forced to pay up this tax have already paid the tax at another state. If getting back the other tax is as simple as paying up this tax (neither is, in actual practice), then a lot more people will be willing to pay up taxes. Also, when somebody moves out of Bangalore, he doesn't his tax back. So, it becomes one way traffic.

Anyway, my intention is not to make this' I v/s You' topic, I just don't support the practice. It's my personal opinion.
I am sure nobody is in support of the KA Govt. for setting up such ridiculously high road tax. As part of a community that loves everything automobile I can say that it really sucks that the road tax structures here is totally messed up. I had already mentioned that I support a central road tax structure as mentioned by me earlier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
I really hope the laws are amended and some central uniform tax is imposed throughout the country and states are given a percentage share based on the location where the registration is taking place and vehicles are allowed to move freely within the country.
Lastly, nothing personal mate, its an open debate. I did not agree with your blanket statement opposing local taxes, hence my post.
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Old 29th December 2011, 11:05   #651
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

Here is the bombshell

Was talking to a colleague with a PY reg prestige car. He has a home in PY and paid the normal tax rate + Rs 5000 to the agent. He mentioned lines of high end cars awaiting registration.

Now the fun - he was at the showroom and the dealer informed him that

1: The RTO + the representative from the Press Association paid a visit, demanded and got payment so that they will not harass the dealer, PY car owners and no further reports in the press

This payment will ensure existing PY cars will not be harassed

2: Going forward, one pays Rs 1 lakh for the PY reg charges. Around Rs 30000 goes for the official tax, the remainder is now split between the PY and KA RTO's. So Win, win, win, lose for the RTO's, the owner and the tax man respectively.

The KA RTO gets more money from this than through normal channels

Such devious talent is so wasted!
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Old 29th December 2011, 11:20   #652
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

I have not seen any harassment on the roads for non-KA plates. I really don't think the police is much bothered unless there's a serious road-offence for which one gets pulled up. There are 100s of cars with other state number plates plying every day. I have a friend who came from another state and spent 3 years in Bangalore without paying any money or changing the number plate.

There are two things here:

1. People moving from other states with NOC and paying up the local road tax, but not choosing to change their number plates immediately. Some of them continue using the same no. plate even after the 12 month deadline.
2. People moving from other states, not paying the tax, and obviously not changing the number plates.

I guess there are many more in category 2 above. And yes, there are also people who have their homes in nearby non-KA states, and they often get the registration done there. I know of a person who did that just to evade the high taxes here.

The solution is not in finding ways to circumvent the law. But how many have ever got their money back from RTO if they were moving to another state? A common road tax across the country MUST be implemented!
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Old 6th January 2012, 07:34   #653
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

Central staffers will have to pay lifetime tax for vehicles w.e.f 1st Jan 2012

Here is the news:

MK Madhusoodan TNN

Bangalore: Thousands of central government employees,including armed forces personnel,residing in Karnataka and owning motor vehicles will now have to pay lifetime tax (LTT) for their vehicles.
The employees had been granted exemption from paying LTT when buying new vehicles in the state or bringing them from other states on the ground that they could be transferred out of Karnataka anytime.These motorists had to pay an annual tax to RTO.
However,a new rule that took effect on January 1 has withdrawn this exemption partially.While those central government employees bringing in their vehicles from other states need to pay only annual tax as earlier,those already in Karnataka will have to pay LTT for vehicles they have already purchased here or going to buy in future.

Related news (TNN): Central staff upset over lifetime tax for vehicles

Bangalore: What does the lifetime tax for central government employees in Karnataka mean Translated into cash burden,the measure will result in employees owning vehicles worth between Rs 3 lakh and Rs 6 lakh shelling out LTT to the tune of Rs 25,000 to Rs 50,000,respectively.
K Karunakaran,an employee in Bangalore,said it was a shock when he was asked by the RTO to pay Rs 40,000 for his two-year-old Santro car when he went to pay annual tax.
I never expected this.Most of my colleagues had purchased cars for New Year during the past years.Their annual tax was due in January.Being asked to pay a few thousands of rupees is not exactly the right way to begin the New Year, he said.
The rule provides for exemption also.Those who are migrating to the state need not pay the LTT as they are considered to be in a frequently transferable job.But those who had purchased vehicles here and continue to stay here will have to pay the difference of the tax according to the age of the vehicle.The older the vehicle,the lesser the tax, transport commissioner TS Bhat told TOI.
He said those who are already paying annual tax in the state will be asked to pay the LTT at the time of annual fee collection.

How much is LTT


LTT is 13% of the invoice value for a new four-wheeler worth less than Rs 5 lakh.For vehicles between Rs 5 lakh and Rs 10 lakh,it is 14%.For those valued between Rs10 and 20 lakh,it is 17%.LTT is 10% for new twowheelers with invoice prices up to Rs 50,000.It is 12% for costlier varieties.They were levied only annual tax for being in transferable jobs.
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Old 6th January 2012, 07:57   #654
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According to todays TOI news report the annual tax scheme stands withdrawn partially but includes armed forces too i believe. This move is anti constitutional ( against freedom of employment in India ) and giving scope for corruption and harassment of central govt employees. I only hope the PSU oil companies and Banker Managements take up the issue strongly with the RTO and govt concerned. These are institutions which are going to maximum affected by transfer policies. I hope the threat of non supplies of fuel to concerned department and non honouring cheques for withdrawl is implemented to ensure such unethical notification is not implemented, which can be detrimental to thousands of central govt employees. If a employee is transferred every two or three years he or she might end up paying more than value of the car or two wheeler as tax to the government. I hope team Anna works on prevention of scope of corruption rather than trying to prosecute what has happened in the past which is basically a post morterm. What is take on the subject matter guys ?




Central staffers will have to pay lifetime tax for vehicles


TNN | Jan 6, 2012, 03.45AM IST
BANGALORE: Thousands of central government employees, including armed forces personnel, residing in Karnataka and owning motor vehicles will now have to pay lifetime tax (LTT) for their vehicles.

The employees had been granted exemption from paying LTT when buying new vehicles in the state or bringing them from other states on the ground that they could be transferred out of Karnataka anytime. These motorists had to pay an annual tax to RTO.

However, a new rule that took effect on January 1 has withdrawn this exemption partially. While those central government employees bringing in their vehicles from other states need to pay only annual tax as earlier, those already in Karnataka will have to pay LTT for vehicles they have already purchased here or going to buy in future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolclouds View Post

Related news (TNN): Central staff upset over lifetime tax for vehicles

Bangalore: What does the lifetime tax for central government employees in Karnataka mean Translated into cash burden,the measure will result in employees owning vehicles worth between Rs 3 lakh and Rs 6 lakh shelling out LTT to the tune of Rs 25,000 to Rs 50,000,respectively.
K Karunakaran,an employee in Bangalore,said it was a shock when he was asked by the RTO to pay Rs 40,000 for his two-year-old Santro car when he went to pay annual tax.
I never expected this.Most of my colleagues had purchased cars for New Year during the past years.Their annual tax was due in January.Being asked to pay a few thousands of rupees is not exactly the right way to begin the New Year, he said.
The rule provides for exemption also.Those who are migrating to the state need not pay the LTT as they are considered to be in a frequently transferable job.But those who had purchased vehicles here and continue to stay here will have to pay the difference of the tax according to the age of the vehicle.The older the vehicle,the lesser the tax, transport commissioner TS Bhat told TOI.
He said those who are already paying annual tax in the state will be asked to pay the LTT at the time of annual fee collection.
I feel the move is primarily unconstitutional which violates the fundamental right of freedom of movement and employment anywhere in India. It is akin to treating us as migrants from Pakistan Secondly it will provide ample scope of corruption Thirdly a central govt employee will be harassed and burdened with financial implication on each transfer, apart from spending money on schooling and admission on transfer.

The logical step is to ensure that inter govt transfer sales tax amount is effected and a nominal fee of Rs 200 is collected for migration or registration of vehicle in the state concerned.

What if the PSU oil companies and bankers refuse to supply fuel to the concerned govt officials and stop honouring their cheques as a mark of protest ? I hope the concerned realise that even the defense personnel who are protecting our nation are being subject to harassment by this move. I hope Team Anna works on pro actively to prevent corruption rather than probe into past.

I agree with you that double road taxation should be avoided in sales tax. For your information commercial vehicles are exempted from dual taxation since they went of strike. Allowing annual tax to migrant vehicles is another move which reeks of discrimination. If this is so than people will start buying vehicles in union territory paying annual tax and than migrate to karnataka and continue to pay annual tax here too. The scope for corruption is ensured in this move

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Originally Posted by Tats07 View Post

The solution is not in finding ways to circumvent the law. But how many have ever got their money back from RTO if they were moving to another state? A common road tax across the country MUST be implemented!
I had suggested in my last thread that all India pricing of fuel should be implemented and majority of members were against me for implementing this suggestion. The move of GST is primarily aimed at addressing this problem. Uniform price throughout the country was introduced by many MNC's and Indian companies because they found that smuggling of goods used to take place between neighbouring states affecting their sales administration. I have personally experienced how unequal it can be when sales tax is 0 and 22%.

I agree with you that double road taxation should be avoided in sales tax. For your information commercial vehicles are exempted from dual taxation since they went of strike. Allowing annual tax to migrant vehicles is another move which reeks of discrimination. If this is so than people will start buying vehicles in union territory paying annual tax and than migrate to karnataka and continue to pay annual tax here too. The scope for corruption is ensured in this move

Last edited by GTO : 11th January 2012 at 14:16. Reason: Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing one post after another!
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Old 6th January 2012, 09:26   #655
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

This is probably 1 fair amendment to the taxation laws, people in transferable jobs can have their taxes refunded when they leave the state. Also in some services when you stick around for 10 years in the same state and then pay a pittance in annual tax, its an insult to regular tax payers.

Central government employeess are just creating a ruckus, no RTO/traffic cop is going to pull over a government employee to check vehicle tax. The contacts they have will ensure everthing is hushed up quickly. The refund process should give the babus an idea of what normal people go through to get their own money back. "Transferable" as an excuse to avoid paying LTT is a joke, people relocate all the time for different reasons, but apparently they don't deserve any concessions unless the government is their employer.
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Old 6th January 2012, 09:31   #656
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

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This is probably 1 fair amendment to the taxation laws, people in transferable jobs can have their taxes refunded when they leave the state. Also in some services when you stick around for 10 years in the same state and then pay a pittance in annual tax, its an insult to regular tax payers.

Central government employeess are just creating a ruckus, no RTO/traffic cop is going to pull over a government employee to check vehicle tax. The contacts they have will ensure everthing is hushed up quickly. The refund process should give the babus an idea of what normal people go through to get their own money back. "Transferable" as an excuse to avoid paying LTT is a joke, people relocate all the time for different reasons, but apparently they don't deserve any concessions unless the government is their employer.
You just echoed my sentiments. People specially hired in the IT sector in Bangalore are relocated all the time, sometimes at short notices. Why don't they then allow all non state cars to run on this annual tax scheme. The refunds are tough to get and mostly never happen.
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Old 6th January 2012, 10:23   #657
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

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You just echoed my sentiments. People specially hired in the IT sector in Bangalore are relocated all the time, sometimes at short notices. Why don't they then allow all non state cars to run on this annual tax scheme. The refunds are tough to get and mostly never happen.
I work in IT and see how people are forced to discount their cars to sell them when they have to shift at short notice, the LTT is a good part of the loss incurred. The annual tax scheme should be implemented for all cars, compliance will rise if it is implemented properly.
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Old 6th January 2012, 10:54   #658
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

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I work in IT and see how people are forced to discount their cars to sell them when they have to shift at short notice, the LTT is a good part of the loss incurred. The annual tax scheme should be implemented for all cars, compliance will rise if it is implemented properly.
Ofcourse as an owner of an out station car I will happily cough up a sane amount of money as annual road tax. Most of the people driving such cars are there in the state for a limited period of time. They surely don't want to cough up 40-50k as lifetime tax when they know that there stay is only temporary. Atleast this should be made available and people can then do the math themselves that what will be more feasible for them depending on there length of stay.

But coming back to the reality there is no way this will be extended to the common man. As far as central govt employees are concerned they will be easily able to get a stay against this order and go back to merrier days.
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Old 6th January 2012, 10:55   #659
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

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Originally Posted by coolclouds View Post
Central staffers will have to pay lifetime tax for vehicles w.e.f 1st Jan 2012
When we asked for justice, this is not what we had in mind. We sufferers of KA wanted road tax kicked down to reasonable amount ( < 5%) like many states. Instead, the devious rulers of KA decide to add even more people to the list of sufferers.

Frankly, if I was not from KA, I would have moved out long back.
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Old 6th January 2012, 11:42   #660
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Default Re: Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 atta

The understanding/bribery happens now everywhere. I have heard news channels doing this too. This country is amazing.

On the other hand, I am cool with paying more tax than other states. I love residing here and thats my choice I know about how difficult politically it is to get funds for this state.
Corruption and other matters are everywhere.
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