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Old 15th December 2008, 11:58   #16
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the manufacturers are selling what the market wants to buy. IF maruti sells something people want, why blame them ? and there are manufacturers selling high tech products which sell cars with the tech you say they need , and yet they dont sell. apart from abs and airbags, i dont see the point of forcing people to buy tech they dont need. technology is just a means , not an end. If high tech does not give any advantages to me , why should i spend on it ?
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Old 15th December 2008, 12:02   #17
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Originally Posted by getsurya View Post
Folks, Good discussion.
If we see what drives the decisioning of owning a car in India- 7 out 10 families/customers will attribute MILEAGE & MAINTENANCE as top two reasons. Unfortunately or Fortunately, that is where you would want to do business!! So, we Indians end up with old technology in new paints. But what is happening to US now?? Every Car manufacturer is talking in thier ads about 'mpg'!!
If I am not exaggerating, it will be a nice business proposal to launch M800 as an incity car in US of A!!!!!ofcourse, after some changes to get it cleared to be a people mover there too.

The new Fiat 500 costing 7 lakhs in europe will be much better alternative than M800 for USA.


US market is filled with extra large size cars. Their definition of smallest car is bigger than our average sedan. Its better if they move towards smaller sized cars and lose their big car SUV addiction.

If you guys still keep insisting on M800, I am sure anyone would easily get brainwashed. M800. Not this anymore.
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Old 15th December 2008, 12:06   #18
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Ritz, the reason why I said M800 was more to do with the 'Indianish attitude'- what we drove so long should be thiers NOW?? What say!!?
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Old 15th December 2008, 12:09   #19
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25years of maruti and now we see some goodies which Daewoo Cielo and Opel Astra offered a decade back.But what maruti offered was affordable cars with prompt service each one of us have owned a maruti product and must have been satisfied.
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Old 15th December 2008, 12:21   #20
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ritz

technology might not be affordable for everybody.

And look at other brands. They provide all the gadgets and all in top end versions only. How many people opt for higher end versions?

If you are talking of only engines, then for 90% of people it doesnt matter. Most car customers just want Fuel efficient and reliable engines (which even 20 year old maruti engines are). So it doesnt matter if the engine is VVt or ABCD or XYZ.

And Maruti, of late, has been providing quite good and its latest cars (something we cant say for 90% of other manufacturers in India). Swift was the first 5lakh car to come with auto climate control (no other car in this price range has it even now, heck city doesnt even for almost 10 lakhs). Maruti provided airbags/ABS in SX4 and Swift and others have picked up from there (till recently these werent even options on NHC)...

I think Maruti have been torchbearers for Indian auto industry over last 20 years! Whatever they do, others COPY!!! (some copy better some dont!)
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Old 15th December 2008, 12:34   #21
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@joslics, getsurya, greenhorn

Swift is a decent car, and lets keep that as our standards and not go below that. If you say that only M800/Alto/estillo/wagonR can be manufactured at a 3 lakhs price range and not Swift, then this is plain gas. Swift LXI has nothing in it to be priced at 4.5 lakhs. If Maruti had decided to keep swift as its starting model then the pricing would have been different.

After all, its our Indian government which has banned 3 wheel motorised tricycles from operating. So should the same apply to cars like Maruti 800 and its siblings.


Its not about the ABS, AIRBAGS, electric windows .... Its about the driving comfort, and quality of tires, noise damping which matters first. Mental Stress is not something which only comes while working hard for long hours, even noisy atmosphere, lack of driving comfort will result in unwanted stress. And please don't suggest yoga to relieve stress, while we missed the basic things which we should have done long back in automotive industry.

Last edited by ritz830 : 15th December 2008 at 12:36.
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Old 15th December 2008, 12:43   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getsurya View Post
Folks, Good discussion.
If we see what drives the decisioning of owning a car in India- 7 out 10 families/customers will attribute MILEAGE & MAINTENANCE as top two reasons. Unfortunately or Fortunately, that is where you would want to do business!! So, we Indians end up with old technology in new paints. But what is happening to US now?? Every Car manufacturer is talking in thier ads about 'mpg'!!
If I am not exaggerating, it will be a nice business proposal to launch M800 as an incity car in US of A!!!!!ofcourse, after some changes to get it cleared to be a people mover there too.

Most of my friends and colleagues in America cant even sit in this car. It is more suitable for shorter Indians and Japanese. You think this would be a seller in the US
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Old 15th December 2008, 16:39   #23
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post cusomisation we can make it suit them.
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Old 15th December 2008, 16:58   #24
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Originally Posted by ritz830 View Post
Its not about the ABS, AIRBAGS, electric windows .... Its about the driving comfort, and quality of tires, noise damping which matters first. Mental Stress is not something which only comes while working hard for long hours, even noisy atmosphere, lack of driving comfort will result in unwanted stress. And please don't suggest yoga to relieve stress, while we missed the basic things which we should have done long back in automotive industry.
So maybe for you its driving comfort, quality of tires, noise damping etc that matters first. For other people there could be other parameters more important. In general, in India for most people the most important thing is Fuel Efficiency. Tires you can get changed to your likes (I dont think any car company gives the best stock tires. and in any case there is nothing like 'best' when it comes to such subjective things. somebody might like a sports tire that lasts only 20k KM and some other person might like to have durable ones or some others might like tires with good ride etc etc. Also tires affect FE and car companies would rather try to strike the perfect balance between PRICE/FE/Comfort/design/looks/ride etc as far as tires are concerned. Similarly damping can be done outside if rattles are so big a deal. Other than FE, some people might be more finicky about safety than comfort. Another parameters could be seating capacity (space) or brand or looks (exterior/interior) etc etc. A car company has to strike the perfect balance on all these (plus whatever other parameters I cant think of) for a car to be successful.
Point is dont think driving comfort is ultimate thing. it is not probably even among top 5 considerations when people go out to buy cars (speaking in general).
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Old 15th December 2008, 17:22   #25
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Default Maruti magic

After reading the discussion, I just had to login and pour in my .02$.

I don't own a vehicle, Also, I am biased towards some Maruti products. Specially the ones that were/are in the family. We earlier had the good old SS80 and now have a Baleno VXi (2003) and both of them have been absolutely delightful.
I agree that Maruti might not give us the best of global engineering, but they certainly have improved over the past few years. In fact, the Baleno when it was launched didn't strike the right chord with Indian buyers mainly because of Maruti's perception of a small (nee inexpensive) car maker. It offered 90% of Honda's power, had a much better ride and handling compromise (IMO), better rear seats etc. So in my opinion, Maruti tried changing track but found out the hard way that they first needed to change their image.

However, look at their track record in the recent past; their last few launches have been very close to their international launches. Take for example,

a. Swift
b. SX4
c. Grand Vitara
d. A-star (overpriced, lacking in space but offers safety like no other small car)

I think even Ritz would agree that there has been a change since Jagdish Khattar had taken over. I think this has to do with a company's culture, and now Maruti is more "modern" in it's outlook. As far as continuing to sell older products is concerned, as long as the market continues to lap it up, why should Maruti stop manufacturing or incur any additional costs (seems against the basics of business)
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Old 15th December 2008, 17:42   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
the manufacturers are selling what the market wants to buy. IF maruti sells something people want, why blame them?
As far as I am concerned, Maruti is not selling something people want. They make people to buy what they manufacture.
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Old 15th December 2008, 18:15   #27
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I do not know the exact purpose of this thread. But if its about "Why Maruti" , please have a look at this.
ritz1234, please go through this thread, highly recommended:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...hing-else.html (Why Maruti ? not anything else??)
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Old 15th December 2008, 19:03   #28
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Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
I think Maruti have been torchbearers for Indian auto industry over last 20 years! Whatever they do, others COPY!!! (some copy better some dont!)
And that exactly the problem. We have been fed by Maruti for so long that we dont want to look at anything else and Maruti being Maruti wouldnt want to change themselves. Else how would you explain launching a 1999 defunct model in the domestic market as a stylish new age car!
Maruti suck at most things they do but I must admit they have changed with Swift and the SX4.
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Old 15th December 2008, 19:16   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCEite View Post
I do not know the exact purpose of this thread. But if its about "Why Maruti" , please have a look at this.
ritz1234, please go through this thread, highly recommended:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...hing-else.html (Why Maruti ? not anything else??)

Cool down man. Atleast call me ritz cheers:

My point is "Maruti is a mechanic(repair man) and not a car manufacturer"

its does lots of mod jobs to the original, & outer gimmicks, no one knows whats inside. If you ask for examples - Zen estillo is the biggest example of all...

Edited again:
If I got the time and resource, I can prepare an XL sheet giving out the complete details of all recent releases of Maruti and their differences with their original. Swift, Sx4, .... everything is modded, fitted with old technology. I wonder if Maruti only buys outer body(shell) dies from suzuki and all other parts are same as old.

Last edited by ritz830 : 15th December 2008 at 19:29.
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Old 15th December 2008, 19:20   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomRider View Post
As far as I am concerned, Maruti is not selling something people want. They make people to buy what they manufacture.
funny, they certainly didnt make me buy any maruti product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ritz830 View Post
My point is "Maruti is a mechanic(repair man) and not a car manufacturer"
And since when is having an extensive service network a bad thing ? even to the point of overshadowing its car sales. I wish there were more such manufacturers
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