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Old 16th December 2008, 14:46   #46
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Originally Posted by sridhga View Post
Most of my friends and colleagues in America cant even sit in this car. It is more suitable for shorter Indians and Japanese. You think this would be a seller in the US
A gross generalization US had its own fair share of few M800 look alike Dahitsu / Toyota Models in 80s, yes USA is extremly comptetive market so selling same model for 20 years is impossible there

Most of the Indians can't also sit in M800 confirtabely but this is the most affordable Car and next attempt to provide a decent cheap car is done by Tatas.

Secondly not all US citizens are taller and well built thirdly Japanese are no longer short the average height in Japan and Korea has increased quite a lot in las few decades and now I find average japanese on Tokyo Streets taller then average Indian in Mumbai.
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Old 16th December 2008, 14:50   #47
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That's the difference. FIAT's outdated stuff is still good enough and still commands enthusiast's interests (1.6 GTX). The facelift in the form of Stile with the Multijet heart is also one of the good looking hatches on road.

Linea and Punto are fantastic products and will be even after a few years. Their A.S.S needs a lot to be improved though
Really thats the difference! Fiat might interest the odd enthusiast (even the old stuff like Palio) but Maruti interests thousands (and that is what you would want if you are a business).

Just like what you said for Linea and Punto is also true for Swift. It is there for last 5+ years and still sells like hot cakes. Its engine, though old technology, is still a gem - very reliable and the car is fantastic to drive (for an enthusiast). In one month it sells more than what Fiat India sells in one whole year.
So Fiat are definitely doing something worng and Maruti is doing something right. The challenge is upto others to actually beat Maruti. I am more distraught by other so called big companies like GM, Ford, Skoda, Fiat etc who donot want to sell their best cars in India. Where is the Panda or the GP (that have been there in europe for so many years now)??? Why should Indian junta be made to buy centuries old Palio??? It doesnt even have a digital odo!!!
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Old 16th December 2008, 14:55   #48
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Dude, Euro emission rating is just an eyewash. Cmon, the smaller the vehicle(better mileage), the better the emission standard. Ask suzuki to do the same with its bigger vehicles. Suzuki can not.. But Fiat,Honda can.

"mileage D.proportional to co2 emission D.proportional to size of car"

Euro NCAP safety rating is what matters. Go to this website and see for yourself. New Alto is not even listed.
Euro NCAP - For safer cars | HOME

Have a good day.
You have full rights to be a FIAT / Honda / Toyota fan but do you feel outdated Honda Civic / Toyota Carrola which sells for less then half the price in US despite cheaper manufacturing costs in India are worth ?

Or Fiat 500 for 18.5 lakh in India while it sells for about 7 lakhs abroad is a good example of marketing a car ? Why should customer bother if FIAT imports is as CBU or assemble here this is not customers headach.
Or the After sales service of FIAT and over inflated parts cost is some thing to talk about . Maruti sells because this is what mass market wants Period.

Who TF is enthusiast ? An individual with inflated ego because his pocket allows to drive a heavy car with bigger engine , The so called enthusiasts on this board are plain lucky theat there are not enough bently , ferrari , Rollys Royce owners on this board to deride thier taste in car.
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Old 16th December 2008, 14:59   #49
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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Who TF is enthusiast ? An individual with inflated ego because his pocket allows to drive a heavy car with bigger engine , The so called enthusiasts on this board are plain lucky theat there are not enough bently , ferrari , Rollys Royce owners on this board to deride thier taste in car.
Thats well said.

I dont understand the point or purpose of this thread, other than maruti bashing.
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Old 16th December 2008, 15:05   #50
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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Who TF is enthusiast ? An individual with inflated ego because his pocket allows to drive a heavy car with bigger engine , The so called enthusiasts on this board are plain lucky theat there are not enough bently , ferrari , Rollys Royce owners on this board to deride thier taste in car.
Or someone who buys a Jeep for 80k and restores it to mint condition.

Total cost might not be more then a brand new Alto LXi, but its the passion and endurance that defines enthusiast not the money in pocket.
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Old 16th December 2008, 15:11   #51
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Well, bashing Maruti (or any other manufacturer) in itself is not really a bad thing, provided you back it up with some solid reasons. But saying that Maruti forces Indians to buy their cars is the lamest reason I have ever come across.

Guys, this is a free market. You like Maruti cars, you buy it. You hate Maruti cars, don't buy. As simple as that. And if Jagdish Khattar is holding a gun to your head asking you to buy an M800, please complain to the nearest police-station and also post a copy of your complaint on tbhp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ritz830
I own two 800.
Don't tell me they forced you to buy not one, but two M800s ? If you think it really is a piece of junk, I wonder why you would buy 2 of them ?
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Old 16th December 2008, 15:14   #52
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Guys, this is a free market. You like Maruti cars, you buy it. You hate Maruti cars, don't buy.
Thats the crux. Vote with your wallet.

PAL was in the situation Maruti is in today.

It did not take much for PAL to lose its position.

If Maruti does not sell what people want, it will get the same deal in a few years.

For now, a reliable car under 3 lakh is what people buy and thats what Maruti sells.
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Old 16th December 2008, 15:30   #53
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Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
Or someone who buys a Jeep for 80k and restores it to mint condition.

Total cost might not be more then a brand new Alto LXi, but its the passion and endurance that defines enthusiast not the money in pocket.
I understand but these were not the kind of enthusiasts being referred on this thread, these real enthusiasts usually belong to vintage section or 4x4 section of TBHP.
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Old 16th December 2008, 16:28   #54
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Default Lets put things back to perspective

I wonder if many of you guys come from political background.... So many modulations and demodulation to a simple thought.

If you can read my first post and the heading of this thread it means "Maruti is a mechanic and not a car manufacturer".

I am not shouting at Maruti for being a repairman and keeping all our cars working for years. I just want to know why they have failed to provide a car for the common man of 2008. Having enjoyed all the tax benefits and cheap labor they still have not delivered.

Features which are essential for any common man living in 2008
- Euro NCAP safety rating (or something similar) which is a must. Anything equal or less than 2 star means you are dead after a head on crash.
- cruising at 80kmpl and above speeds with safety and stability
- better and advance suspension which you see in all cars of today. Maruti is the worst in this, I find no difference riding in 800, swift and a-star. Only difference between the trio is noise damping & tire size.
- acceptable build quality and quality of plastics.
- noise damping, power steering, average aesthetics.
- Safety beams in pillars, which is a must and available in all motorized vehicles of today.
- option for airbags and abs

Cars like 800/Alto/estillo/wagonR from maruti has lowered that standards of Indian automotive industry and has blocked the entry of decent equally priced vehicles.

Lets now discuss about these facts and forget the "Hamara Maruti" or "I hate maruti" discussions.

Last edited by ritz830 : 16th December 2008 at 16:34.
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Old 16th December 2008, 17:00   #55
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Originally Posted by ritz830 View Post

Features which are essential for any common man living in 2008
- Euro NCAP safety rating (or something similar) which is a must. Anything equal or less than 2 star means you are dead after a head on crash.
- cruising at 80kmpl and above speeds with safety and stability
- better and advance suspension which you see in all cars of today. Maruti is the worst in this, I find no difference riding in 800, swift and a-star. Only difference between the trio is noise damping & tire size.
- acceptable build quality and quality of plastics.
- noise damping, power steering, average aesthetics.
- Safety beams in pillars, which is a must and available in all motorized vehicles of today.
- option for airbags and abs
Man as on 16th Dec 2008 most of the Maruti cars have everything you have asked for over here!

Quote:
Cars like 800/Alto/estillo/wagonR from maruti has lowered that standards of Indian automotive industry and has blocked the entry of decent equally priced vehicles.
Could you please care to explain how Maruti has blocked the entry of decent and equally priced vehicles? For as far as I know, there is no car below 4.5 lakhs (other than A*) that has Airbags/ABS; no car below 5.5 lakhs (other than Swift) that has climate control and steering mounted audio controls. Why cant Fiat or Honda do what Maruti has done?
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Old 16th December 2008, 17:05   #56
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Originally Posted by ritz830 View Post
I wonder if many of you guys come from political background.... So many modulations and demodulation to a simple thought.

If you can read my first post and the heading of this thread it means "Maruti is a mechanic and not a car manufacturer".

I am not shouting at Maruti for being a repairman and keeping all our cars working for years. I just want to know why they have failed to provide a car for the common man of 2008. Having enjoyed all the tax benefits and cheap labor they still have not delivered.

Features which are essential for any common man living in 2008
- Euro NCAP safety rating (or something similar) which is a must. Anything equal or less than 2 star means you are dead after a head on crash.
- cruising at 80kmpl and above speeds with safety and stability
- better and advance suspension which you see in all cars of today. Maruti is the worst in this, I find no difference riding in 800, swift and a-star. Only difference between the trio is noise damping & tire size.
- acceptable build quality and quality of plastics.
- noise damping, power steering, average aesthetics.
- Safety beams in pillars, which is a must and available in all motorized vehicles of today.
- option for airbags and abs

Cars like 800/Alto/estillo/wagonR from maruti has lowered that standards of Indian automotive industry and has blocked the entry of decent equally priced vehicles.

Lets now discuss about these facts and forget the "Hamara Maruti" or "I hate maruti" discussions.
I would go with your points.

I remember those days when fastest I could ever go in the Indian roads was just over 80KMPH in a heavily built Amby. Then came the Maruti era with small car era of Maruti with the M800 & the Zen.

One can never deny that those were a milestone in Indian Automotive industry. But shouldnt this change?

IMO, Maruti gives the same cars even today with the build quality which looked only superior to the Ambys and the Fiats of the 80s.

Some might argue about the ABS/EPS being provided in top end models in the Marutis these days. But how reliable are these on the cars. I have read many complaints about the EPS in the SX4. Providing features just for the bling bling on the brochures is not what I would want.

Its business at the end of the day for Maruti, but its also a fact that they are still in the 90s and they would do so as long as there are "Hamara Maruti" customers!
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Old 16th December 2008, 17:06   #57
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Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
Man as on 16th Dec 2008 most of the Maruti cars have everything you have asked for over here!



Could you please care to explain how Maruti has blocked the entry of decent and equally priced vehicles? For as far as I know, there is no car below 4.5 lakhs (other than A*) that has Airbags/ABS; no car below 5.5 lakhs (other than Swift) that has climate control and steering mounted audio controls. Why cant Fiat or Honda do what Maruti has done?
Oh... did the maruti Sales man say that to you. Go and checkout Hyundai and Chevrolet, both offer abs and airbags for below 4.5 lakhs.

And, dont again try to fool people into buying those substandard cars by saying that Maruti has the best service and cheapest spares. Poor me and my brothers and sisters
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Old 16th December 2008, 17:16   #58
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I did not understand where this thread is leading to. Are you guys saying -

1. Maruti should reduce the price of cars since the build quality is sub-standard
2. Maruti should increase price and give quality cars
3. Maruti should give quality cars at the current price
4. Maruti should build and price the cars what their customers are willing to pay
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Old 16th December 2008, 17:27   #59
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Originally Posted by ritz830 View Post
Hyundai and Chevrolet, both offer abs and airbags for below 4.5 lakhs.
Care to list such cars and their prices?

E.g. i10 gives ABS / Airbags only on top end models and I doubt it would cost less then 4.5 lakh.
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Old 16th December 2008, 17:40   #60
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Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
Care to list such cars and their prices?

E.g. i10 gives ABS / Airbags only on top end models and I doubt it would cost less then 4.5 lakh.
Hey, cmon..... Stop this GASSS. No more OFF topic plzz. Everyone knows Spark and Santro Xing has ABS and Airbags as options.

My whole thread was about 800/Alto/Estillo/WagonR being outdated cheap business tactics. If you claim A-star & Swift as good cars, then keep them as standard and give a proper pricing.

If chevy spark and Hyundai Santro(foreign manufactureres) can setup industry in India and are capable of manufacturing decent cars at an affordable price within a span of 5 years. Then why not Maruti.

Trust me on this. If Maruti decides to make A-star as starting model and offer it at a reasonable price, then sure it can. But what it does is, offering numerous models and confuse the customers.
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