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Old 17th December 2008, 16:11   #106
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Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
Man do Honda have a 3lakh rupee car in India???...
Joslicx,

Am not comparing based on prices and never did a 800 to Honda comparison. What I mention is that we could have had better standards if only the pioneers have done something about it.

If only....
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Old 17th December 2008, 16:50   #107
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@happywheels. Good that you are in tune with the thread. Thank you

@romeo: I love Maruti. Its "Hamara Maruti". And Ofcourse, I accept that maruti ONLY can make the cheapest car with best A.S.S. But its been long time since it delivered a better and safer car for the common-man. Isnt this the reason why Maruti was started by the Gandhi's i.e "make standard and affordable cars for the common man"

, Dude please try to understand. Maruti 800/Alto is not equal to Santro/Spark. The latter have gone for crash testing and are way advanced in technology. Also, Spark has got Anti-roll bars which make them stable for high speed cruising.

ok forget all that.... There is a reason why we have different stages in civilization. Stone age, Bronze age, Iron age,... etc. There is a reson why we are asked to use contraceptives for our own safety. This is what we call advancement in civilization.

Maruti has kept its iron grip(causing monopoly) on its old outdated 800/Alto. No foreign manufactuerer would like to go back in civilization and offer a sub-standar product and spoil their international image.

Finally, it boils down to a CHOICE. Either to take the BLUE PILL and continue with our olden 800/Alto or take the RED PILL and realise the hard truth. It is us(we) who are going to loose if we dont get out of the MATRIX and request for what we need. Else the MACHINES will take over over and suck the lives out of us...i.e making profit in India and giving the benefit to the outside world.
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Old 17th December 2008, 17:04   #108
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Originally Posted by ritz830 View Post
Finally, it boils down to a CHOICE. Either to take the BLUE PILL and continue with our olden 800/Alto or take the RED PILL and realise the hard truth. It is us(we) who are going to loose if we dont get out of the MATRIX and request for what we need. Else the MACHINES will take over over and suck the lives out of us...i.e making profit in India and giving the benefit to the outside world.
Yes, now you are talking!
So we again come to the basic question "Why do people choose Maruti?"
Before I go on I just want to get a few points straight. (Pardon my ignorance if I havent got some facts right. Also, I have read each and every post in full but I can be wrong in my interpretations )

1. The basic problem is that Maruti after monopolizing the market is not giving the Indian customers good cars that are at par with the latest and best out in the world. Right?

2. Maruti should be giving these updated cars at the same or negligible-increase cost?

Have I understood the concept or am I lacking somewhere?
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Old 17th December 2008, 17:20   #109
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Originally Posted by prateekswarup View Post
Yes, now you are talking!
So we again come to the basic question "Why do people choose Maruti?"
Before I go on I just want to get a few points straight. (Pardon my ignorance if I havent got some facts right. Also, I have read each and every post in full but I can be wrong in my interpretations )

1. The basic problem is that Maruti after monopolizing the market is not giving the Indian customers good cars that are at par with the latest and best out in the world. Right?

2. Maruti should be giving these updated cars at the same or negligible-increase cost?

Have I understood the concept or am I lacking somewhere?

Your are right to an extent. But, if you say that its the duty of the people to make the choice and move out of 800/Alto, then you are wrong.

Monopoly means, the company has a solid grip that it defies the ability of the common man to make the right choice.

Maruti should setup standards and make that as a benchmark for competition. And it should refrain itself from offering sub-standard Alto/800 and pull down the global standards which other companies are working on. I
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Old 17th December 2008, 17:26   #110
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@Amit, about the citroen patents.
When I say "XYZ person has been eating apples everyday for the past 5 years, you reply saying that apples are perishable products which only last for a few days".
Havnt you considered the advancement in technology and automotaically more patents will be filled. And, really who cares about the patent expiry date man. You missed the whole point of the thread i.e 800/Alto are outdated.
Well if you have noticed a trend almost everyone on this thread differs with your opinion and still no one has defended Maruti for rolling out 20 years old model so don't you think that its time for you to pounder a bit before you shoot out next message?

Solution to any linear programming problem is most optimal set with in given constraints , buying a car is nothing but a linera programming problem with a defined constraint set of Budget , features desired , time to delivery ,A.S.S etc and Maruti is selling because it lies in optimal set for most peoples constraints.

For the record it was you who brought Citreon patents filed in 1955 with some kind of assumption that others will not have any , I am glad that you realize discussing patents in irrelevant here.

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Originally Posted by ritz830 View Post
I said Honda cars are CBU because I answered to Amits question about double pricing of certain honda cars. And now look at your discussions.
And that statement and answer is incorrect as pointed out to you before.
Honda Cars ARE NOT CBU , They are expensive because Honda is positioning its producst in premium catagory in India.


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Originally Posted by ritz830 View Post
You just cut an paste a small part of my sentence and start discussing about Honda siel, Fabia, overprcing, CBU, CKT... Whats the big difference man anyway. CBU tax is just 40% more the CKT, and both are comparatively really high.
Totally irrelevant, It is totally up to Honda on how they reduce production costs FYI , City is more then 85% local as is the case with any other car of foreign companies.
Any way 40% tax difference between CBU and CKD Kit as you say is a huge difference and amounts to 4 lakh on a million rupee car , But Honda is fleecing because Cars are neither CBU nor manufactured from CKD.

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Originally Posted by ritz830 View Post
.

Finally, please stop finding errors in my text after reading them in bits and pieces amd start discussing useful facts which offer to improve the quality of life i.e standard of Indian living.
I think you should practice this first before preaching others ,The facts and figures you presented are not only incorrect but also irrelevant ,
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Old 17th December 2008, 17:42   #111
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My friend amit. You always take this as fight and think that you are loosing something while you refrain from talking about 800/Alto.

Again, you dint read my full post as always. I brought the Citroen case because they offered superior suspension which are best for Indian roads. And suggested that we should bring the technology to india.

Cars costing double the actual price is Honda CRV. Talking about Honda City or any other thing like taxes is plain tactics to modulate this thread. I dint even bring this into discussion. You brought the confusion and I had to answer.

And about the linear programming , what the ...? Man, you got to get it to your mind that 800/Alto is outdated old stuff. Cmon

Believe me or not. I have been sticking to one point from my first thread.

I am sure even after this, you will speak things irrelevant and diverge from the topic and take the advantage of majority.
And as always you will refrain from talking about
- Monopoly in common-man's car i.e Alto/800.
- Maruti inability to mass produce modern, cheap to buy and use common-man cars.
- Maruti bringing down the Indian automobile standards.

Last edited by ritz830 : 17th December 2008 at 17:56.
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Old 17th December 2008, 17:53   #112
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Originally Posted by ritz830 View Post
- Monopoly in common-man's car i.e Alto/800.
This is not monopoly. Other companies are free to sell cars below 3 lakh bracket.

E.g. Nano will be available sometime next year at below 2 lakh levels

Quote:
Originally Posted by ritz830 View Post
- Maruti inability to mass produce modern, cheap to buy and use common-man cars.
Who else can do that at price levels of Alto/800?
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Old 17th December 2008, 17:57   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ritz830
Maruti 800/Alto is not equal to Santro/Spark. The latter have gone for crash testing and are way advanced in technology.
And Santro/Spark is not equal to City/Verna. So let us make Hyundai/GM stop sale of Spark/Santro. And in a similar way, let us go up the chain, till only the RR or Bentleys remain in the scene.

Also, could you please give the linky for the crash test results for Santro/Spark - I could not find them in EuroNCAP list ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ritz830
Also, Spark has got Anti-roll bars which make them stable for high speed cruising.
Yeah . So, all one needs to do is get a Spark and cruise at hi-speeds and the Spark will save his life, come what may.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ritz830
Maruti has kept its iron grip(causing monopoly) on its old outdated 800/Alto.
I agree that M800/Alto belong to MSIL and it is up to them to decide whether to make it or not. What I dont understand is in what way is MSIL stopping Honda/Toyota/GM/Hyundai/Skoda etc from coming up with an alternative to these cars at that price or less with all the so-called "common man car" features ? Are you saying that MSIL has the power to block these efforts ? If so, that is ridiculous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ritz830
if you say that its the duty of the people to make the choice and move out of 800/Alto, then you are wrong.
It is partly the consumer who can make MSIL stop these cars and partly the competition who can come out with better alternatives to these cars so that MSIL improves these cars. To say that MSIL should take the step, just because you have an opinion that their cars are good-for-nothing is plain illogical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ritz830
Monopoly means, the company has a solid grip that it defies the ability of the common man to make the right choice.
What solid grip, yaar ? You have been harping on this for 7-8 pages now ?
Common man pays 3L for an Alto-LXi. Common man can add a few more thousands instead and get a Spark, which as per you is THE CAR. Is MSIL forcing the common man against such a decision ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ritz830
Maruti should setup standards and make that as a benchmark for competition.
Really? And why do you think the onus is on Maruti and not other car-makers ? It is because of a standard they set (fully loaded SX4), that customers of Honda are seeing airbags in their ANHC today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ritz830
And it should refrain itself from offering sub-standard Alto/800 and pull down the global standards which other companies are working on. I
OK, so now MSIL is also responsible for bringing down the standards of their competitors. So, when Honda did not give airbags/abs on NHC, it was not their fault, but because MSIL did not set a benchmark. That is really hilarious logic.

I could name so many cars in 7-9L segment which earlier and some even today do not even offer airbags as options. And here we are saying that the Alto should be phased out. Great. Just great.
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Old 17th December 2008, 18:11   #114
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I am sorry guys. I am unable to provide support to this thread anymore.

- Its tough to make a lay man understand about monopoly
- Its tough to stop cancer causing Asbestos sheets production in India
- Its tough to explain about safety, ethics, civilization. Now, I thoroughly understand why India has many AIDS infected people. Even though the counselors advice to use contraceptives, but many ignore.
- Its tough to explain about Industry standards and piracy
- Its tough, Its really tough to make a point when a maruti addict is around.
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Old 17th December 2008, 18:16   #115
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Originally Posted by ritz830 View Post
- Its tough, Its really tough to make a point when a maruti addict is around.

Now thats a new addiction.
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Old 17th December 2008, 18:18   #116
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Originally Posted by ritz830 View Post
But its been long time since it delivered a better and safer car for the common-man.
What about Swift and A-Star? In the B-segment, and have ABS, Airbags etc as options or in high-end models. BTW, you need all these stuff in a 2-lakh car? Hope you are not a partner of Maruti to share their loss.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ritz830 View Post
Also, Spark has got Anti-roll bars which make them stable for high speed cruising.
Hey man, a common man don't go for high speed cruising at 120 KMPH.

And, please note: As I've mentioned many times in Team-BHP, all car buyers in India are not car enthusiasts like Team-BHPians. Many car buyers just want to reach their destination, safe from dust, rain, and sun. If they have limited budget, they go for Altos, 800s and the like. If they have a big budget, they opt high end models.

And for all car-enthusiasts and cruisers, cars with high safety features are also available, like A-Star ZXi, Swift ZXi and SX4 ZXi. Pay the extra amount, and grab it. Maruti's policy is as simple as that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ritz830 View Post
Maruti has kept its iron grip(causing monopoly) on its old outdated 800/Alto.
As long as they will sell handsomely, they will continue to make those cars. What is the iron-grip in that? (Alto is the largest selling car in India, selling around 19,000 on Oct-2008)


And as someone else mentioned, are they trying to force you to buy an Alto / 800? Then, there's meaning in your point. Otherwise, it's just a cry-baby attitude.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ritz830 View Post
No foreign manufactuerer would like to go back in civilization and offer a sub-standar product and spoil their international image.
Please look at the present world car scenario. Almost all car manufacturers are trying to develop small cost-effective cars. Features and price are directly proportional. They will surely cut-down the features. If they keep those features, they cannot sell their cars for Rs 2 lakhs in India. It'll be anywhere near 4 lakhs.
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Old 17th December 2008, 18:28   #117
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Originally Posted by ritz830 View Post
I am sorry guys. I am unable to provide support to this thread anymore.

- Its tough to make a lay man understand about monopoly
- Its tough to stop cancer causing Asbestos sheets production in India
- Its tough to explain about safety, ethics, civilization. Now, I thoroughly understand why India has many AIDS infected people. Even though the counselors advice to use contraceptives, but many ignore.
- Its tough to explain about Industry standards and piracy
- Its tough, Its really tough to make a point when a maruti addict is around.
Well said. There are certain things in life which people have to live with.
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Old 17th December 2008, 18:53   #118
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Road side machanic

Me and myfriend have gone to HeroHonda service station to fix friend's bike's disc break problem. Machanic at service center started saying Disc pads will cost you 900, I was shocked, my Palio's and HH Ambition's break pad cost is same??? Then I told him that we have changed break pad recently. I was just making story. He said he will look at the problem and will deliver next day. Next day, the bike was still as it is, when we shouted he checked break fluid and it was emptied. He filled it, still breaks were not working. He asked us for another day. Next day he said some problem with the caliper and it has to be replaced, right now they dont have in stock and it will take around 10-15 days (because Ambition is phased out so parts are not available - Again making story). We went to road side machanic, he found air bubbles in break fluid and removed the bubbles and breaks start working fine.

It is not the road side machinc or service center but it is experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
Many car buyers just want to reach their destination, safe from dust, rain, and sun.
Safe from dust, rain and sun and unsafe life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
Hope you are not a partner of Maruti to share their loss.
Maruti sale figure is higher, if things sales in bulk, losses goes down.

Note from the Team-BHP Support Staff : Please use the "edit" button if posting within 15 minutes of the first post, instead of creating another back-to-back post

Also use "Multi Quote" option for quoting Multiple posts.

Last edited by Technocrat : 17th December 2008 at 19:02. Reason: see note in post
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Old 17th December 2008, 19:27   #119
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Originally Posted by pawan_pullarwar View Post
Safe from dust, rain and sun and unsafe life.
May be, but much safer than a two-wheeler-wala's life.
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Old 17th December 2008, 19:32   #120
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Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
May be, but much safer than a two-wheeler-wala's life.
What is the point here? The "safe vehicle" you are referring is just an alternative of a motorcycle?
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