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Old 16th December 2008, 14:40   #31
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@srishiva, @aaggoswami,
you folks are missing the point. I have seen many an areas where people park on streets in Bangalore. They buy cars but have no parking space. So they park on roads. Many a times, on both sides. People don't have the discipline to not buy cars if they don't have the parking space. Streets are not meant to make permanent parking.

I
The title says "Climate plan ...". So, they have to reduce the number of cars. They do that by saying "People with no parking will not buy cars". Is this the right solution ? Or is it that they keep driving and spoiling the environment because they don't have space to park ?
How are they related ?
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Old 16th December 2008, 14:48   #32
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All these morons have to do is: implement the rules that are already there. Commercial complexes should have a basement parking. If this rule alone is put in to force strictly, half our woes would go away.

Complexes come-up, offices come-up, but everyone ends up parking on the street. Reason: basement is either non-existant or rented out.

Heard that there is a rule, wherein anyone who builds a commercial complex of more than 2 storeys has to provide basement parking. It is there on paper, but hardly implemented.
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Old 16th December 2008, 15:57   #33
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It's good that the government has finally woken up to the fact that we need to cut down on emissions.

Three simple ways of doing that are:

1.) Make better quality fuel avaliable. Car makers are ready with the technology. It's the government owned oil companies that aren't. How about starting off from there?

2.) Make better roads and freeways so car's can travel faster (and emit less) at about 80-100kmph then the current 15kmph in Mumbai city limits. Guess what? This is also the government's responsiblity. As a bonus, the government's oil bill will go down as fuel efficiency of cars will rise.

3.) Have something as simple as dynamic traffic lights at intersections. Try and make cars idle less on the roads so the emissions can go down. Guess what? The government has the responsiblity here too.

Moral of the story: Practice before you preach.

I am sick and tired of the government's mai baap attitude. Let them give us world class infrastructure first and then penalise us for owning cars. Right now they are blindly following the west but they are not understanding why the west is doing what they are.

Western countries first gave world class infrastructure and public transport to their citizens. Despite that car ownership is rising and congesting cities. That's why the government's there are making it more expensive and difficult for people to own cars.

Last edited by amit : 16th December 2008 at 15:59.
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Old 16th December 2008, 16:10   #34
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It's good that the government has finally woken up to the fact that we need to cut down on emissions.

Three simple ways of doing that are:

1.) Make better quality fuel avaliable. Car makers are ready with the technology. It's the government owned oil companies that aren't. How about starting off from there?

2.) Guess what? This is also the government's responsiblity. As a bonus, the government's oil bill will go down as fuel efficiency of cars will rise.

3.) Have something as simple as dynamic traffic lights at intersections. Try and make cars idle less on the roads so the emissions can go down. Guess what? The government has the responsiblity here too.

Moral of the story: Practice before you preach.

I am sick and tired of the government's mai baap attitude. Let them give us world class infrastructure first and then penalise us for owning cars. Right now they are blindly following the west but they are not understanding why the west is doing what they are.

Western countries first gave world class infrastructure and public transport to their citizens. Despite that car ownership is rising and congesting cities. That's why the government's there are making it more expensive and difficult for people to own cars.
1) They will never do this.

2) The main reason for high cost of petrol is taxes that are extracted from selling fuel. So if the our fuel consumption goes down, then we will obviously, overall, use less fuel and so we will buy less fuel. So the government wont be able to extract money from selling fuel the way it is doing now.

The story is this: Bad roads + indiscipline people + poor fuel in both quantity and quality format = More fuel consumption = more money government gets in form of taxes.

3) Here more than government I feel we can also aid a bit. The general road user must get more disciplined. Even the present traffic rules are not followed by most road users.

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1) All these morons have to do is: implement the rules that are already there. Commercial complexes should have a basement parking. If this rule alone is put in to force strictly, half our woes would go away.

2) Complexes come-up, offices come-up, but everyone ends up parking on the street. Reason: basement is either non-existant or rented out.

3) Heard that there is a rule, wherein anyone who builds a commercial complex of more than 2 storeys has to provide basement parking. It is there on paper, but hardly implemented.
1,2 and 3) That is what has happened everywhere and it creates more than manageable problems.
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Old 16th December 2008, 16:18   #35
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I'm all for utilizing public transport for individual city commute. The BMTC Volvos here fill that requirement quite nicely. I've stopped using my car much for city commute.
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Old 16th December 2008, 17:03   #36
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Yes, even I heard about the same. But all this I feel is useless. The government is unnecessarily announcing such rules and regulations. How can one fix on a parking place before he or she even plans to buy a car. And just because the cars are increasing in numbers, government cant charge the car owners for parking space.
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Old 16th December 2008, 17:10   #37
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Yes they can! I'm glad to see a debate emerging about private transport vs public space - but essentially, we need to get to a situation where within the city, cars are used as less as possible - only then will our cities be sustainable. Sure the exact path to the goal may vary, but some start is better than plain cynicism - and I do believe a community like tbhp should take the lead in getting a consensus going. Its not correct to tax ownership of automobiles itself heavily - though it might come to that - but more important to disincentivize usage within the city - especially outside one's locality or zone (thats some time away, of course - first things first). The government has a larger responsibility towards its citizenry than towards automobile owners as a group.
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Old 16th December 2008, 17:11   #38
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Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
The title says "Climate plan ...". So, they have to reduce the number of cars. They do that by saying "People with no parking will not buy cars". Is this the right solution ? Or is it that they keep driving and spoiling the environment because they don't have space to park ?
How are they related ?
Simple enough. For starters, people with an apartment & a single parking lot can not buy a second car and park it on street . Same for people who have 2 parking lots who want to buy a third car or people with no designated parking lot who wants to buy a car. This will reduce the number of cars bought, congestion on narrow streets and misuse of streets for private & permanent parking.
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Old 16th December 2008, 17:17   #39
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would they end-up penalizing people who can accomodate more than 2 cars but have only one car??
The reason that may be stated: occupying unwanted\unused space?
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Old 16th December 2008, 18:05   #40
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would they end-up penalizing people who can accomodate more than 2 cars but have only one car??
Too good.
Mebbe they can rent it out and make some money out of it.
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Old 16th December 2008, 18:55   #41
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Yes they can! I'm glad to see a debate emerging about private transport vs public space - but essentially, we need to get to a situation where within the city, cars are used as less as possible - only then will our cities be sustainable. Sure the exact path to the goal may vary, but some start is better than plain cynicism - and I do believe a community like tbhp should take the lead in getting a consensus going.
The government has to improve their behavior and act at required places. Fuel quality and quantity at same price ( read affordable ), roads, some sort of overhead walkway so that people need not cross roads are just the beginning.

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Simple enough. For starters, people with an apartment & a single parking lot can not buy a second car and park it on street . Same for people who have 2 parking lots who want to buy a third car or people with no designated parking lot who wants to buy a car. This will reduce the number of cars bought, congestion on narrow streets and misuse of streets for private & permanent parking.
It will turn out to be other way round. Also the claims that this is my place/area and violated by someone, etc would come up.
This is not a good practice.

I am not against public transport, but it must be comfortable enough. I am not demanding Merc S-class bucket seat or Rolls-Royce seat for each one, but must be clean and comfortable place to sit. Also can the government promise hygiene level close to that a car affords ?


The number of car in India are not that huge like US or Western Europe and so the climate agenda is wrong. I am sure that a Civic in India is polluting more than Civic in US. Bring in tougher emession norms, and the car manufacturers will be happy as they have technology available, but for that good fuel is required, something the government must do. They are not allowing private players like reliance to jump by not giving them subsidy. If government can put tax then they must also give subsidy to private players atleast a national player like Reliance.

This climate protection is just an excuse to earn money. Beware, some more cess is coming up.
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Old 16th December 2008, 22:23   #42
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The key here is implementation. As it is we have enough laws in this country but hardly any discipline (I am talking of transport related issues here). How many traffic signals are seriously followed? How many lanes are stuck to? What happens if you get caught (if at all)? We all know the answer. Are more laws and cesses the answer?

Having said all that, it is good to see a forum like T-Bhp generating this kind of debate. Solutions have to be found, I shudder to think what our cities will be like when our children grow up.
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Old 16th December 2008, 23:50   #43
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Not only is equating having a space to park your car with saving the global climate problem completely ludicrous, but let's take a look at the new suburbs that have cropped up in the past 10-15 years such as Navi Mumbai. Where is the town planning here? These are BRAND NEW mini cities. Has the Govt. shown any foresight in the infrastructure, building zoning, requirements to be met by builders before buildings can be made etc?

They have a nerve and a half to put the onus of finding car parking space on the public when they take huge bribes from the builders' lobby to turn a blind eye to buildings with inadequate facilities.

Also the number of taxis in Mumbai far exceeds the number of private cars (at least it looks like that if you look around you on any road at any given time of day). Have the taxi drivers proven that they have a legal place to park their commercial vehicles? What about tour buses and other cab companies? Lastly, whether one person owes one car or fifteen cars, the fact is he will only use one at a time. Whether he has place to park the other fourteen or not has nothing to do with how much pollution they emit because they are not being driven, so this has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with climate change, only to do with filling Govt coffers with even more money to be frittered-away on Govt. servants.

In any case let the Govt. focus first on finding place for each of India's 1.1 billion people to live before they tell car owners to prove that they have a reserved car park slot for their cars. Somehow I feel that the most important, contentious issues get conveniently ignored, while new and novel schemes to make more money get concocted under one pretext or another.
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Old 17th December 2008, 01:13   #44
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>>include making ownership of parking space compulsory for those wishing to buy new private vehicles
I completely support this move. It should be made mandatory to show that you have designated parking space before you buy a car in all big cities, at least. In Bangalore, you will be amazed at how many people buy cars and casually park on the streets near their home, blocking traffic and irritating others!

I disagree on this point. We pay road tax to the government while buying a car. We have all the rights to park a car on streets (except for the places where it says "NO PARKING"). If the point that you have mentioned has to be implemented then the government might have to reduce the road tax. This will help people to rent or buy private parking space for themselves.

Few people who have own house may not have a parking space currently but dont you think it is not going to take a long time for them to get a little bit of alteration done to create parking space within their compound. This can be done provided the government reduces the road tax. Lets remember that we Bangaloreans are paying the highest percentage of road tax compared to any other city in India.

The government has to offer better facilities and infrastructure first before implementing all kinds of rules. Let the politicians themselves first have parking space in their house to park their cars. Each politician will not be having less than 2 to 3 private cars. Just visit Sadashivnagar and you will find their cars parked on roads forever and not in within their compound.
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Old 17th December 2008, 11:09   #45
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Originally Posted by kbk_75 View Post
let's take a look at the new suburbs that have cropped up in the past 10-15 years such as Navi Mumbai. Where is the town planning here? These are BRAND NEW mini cities. Has the Govt. shown any foresight in the infrastructure, building zoning, requirements to be met by builders before buildings can be made etc?


Ironically Navi Mumbai is advertised as "The Planned City." I am always wondering what and where is the planning in this planned city?! If thats what the government calls planning then CIDCO should be disbanded immediately. If it was a corporate, almost all officers would have been sacked!

Last edited by amit : 17th December 2008 at 11:10.
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