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Old 19th December 2008, 22:26   #61
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Here's a nice set of slides highlighting how roads are not the solution to the mess we see ourselves getting into today:
bangalore traffic solutions ppt Presentation

and my take on it:
Our life in Bangalore: Bangalore's Traffic Solutions ?

Hope we can drive consensus towards better cities.
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Old 20th December 2008, 13:55   #62
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Took at look at those slides and I can't help but laugh at the fact that Bombay was not included in the list of Indian cities with a working bus system, and Pune was. That is really ridiculous. Pune's bus network is a joke especially when compared to Bombay's. Also, the simple fact is that while it makes a lot of sense on paper or on slides, it's a bit utopian. Bottom line is you are not going to make the middle class working exec get out of his car and onto a cycle. It's just not going to happen.

Sure, we need MASSIVE bus and rail networks to move HUGE numbers of people quickly and efficiently. The bigger picture is, however, being overlooked here. Town planning and zoning is paramount. I look at places that were conceived and designed maybe a hundred years ago, if not more, and the foresight and thought that went into their design is evident even today when numbers have ballooned dozens of times over. Then I see places that were fields twenty years ago (in and around Bombay and Pune mostly) and all I see is a huge mess. No central theme, no town-planning, no foresight, no infrastructure, nothing. Town planning is more than just specifying how wide a road needs to be. It is sad, but the only way I see things improving is when large sections of Government jobs are privatised and handled by intelligent, motivated individuals who take pride in what they do and are well compensated for their effort. Sadly the vast majority of people in Govt. offices are under-paid, unmotivated people who just go about their jobs with no real passion or zeal for what they do. I sincerely believe that this is closely linked to the current state of affairs with regard to infrastructure and road-related problems.

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Old 20th December 2008, 18:50   #63
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Sure, one way is to find the holes in every idea, shrug shoulders to say "you really think this can be done?" and continue with status quo.
The other is to build consensus, which in turn will pressurize policymakers. We got to agree with the base though mentioned here, at least. Sure we need better planning, central themes etc, but lets not get sucked into the no-tactical-moves-but-ever-refined-strategic-plans loop - that only works in favour of those who'd rather not act, and may even profit because of status quo.
The fact is, the current direction adopted countrywide - following the sprawl model - of wider, and wider, and even more wide roads at the cost on numerous other factors, most notably the environment, is untenable. And if the ones amongst us who have the capacity to understand things at this level of cause-effect and design-impact relationships turn cynical and do not spread the idea, or, as one notices very often, even oppose it or deride it - then we'll surely end up with a Mexico City model rather than an Amsterdam like possibility.
Its our choice, really.

Edit:


Some of those "middle class execs" are beginning to ride cycles or take the bus to work more often than they used to. A lot many are getting tired of driving, and the number of single-occupant cars around them.

Last edited by zenx : 20th December 2008 at 18:51.
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Old 20th December 2008, 19:00   #64
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Will the state governments do away with taxes on public taxes? Or at least reduce them? Just look at the outrageous taxes on public transport vehicles in Karnataka, being posted on the Karnataka Road Tax thread.

Of course, Karnataka has high taxes, but other states are not bad off. AP, for example, levies a Rs. 400/- per head levy on yellow board vehicles entering that state. Ditto for Kerala.
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Old 20th December 2008, 19:13   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenx View Post
The other is to build consensus, which in turn will hopefully pressurize policymakers.
Fixed.

I understand what you're saying and I think it's about time the leaders of this country got pressurized into something other than their own self-serving agenda. What I take great offense to is being told that we need to be taxed more, considering we, the car/bike owning public, are already being taxed more heavily than 98% of the world and we get virtually nothing back for our tax rupees, when it comes to good roads, good fuel, etc.
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Old 20th December 2008, 19:32   #66
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Sure

But its not just policymakers. I think we've all bought into the basic "sexy" dream of the zippy freeway tearing through the city and cars zipping along at crazy speeds. The sprawl model is the one governments across the country seem to be selling as progress, and indeed, citizens seem to be clamouring for across the country. Delhi/Hyd/Mumbai/Blore have all gone that route. Bangalore less so - but the "BBMP" nomenclature itself is threatening, from where I stand.

We have to first evolve consensus amongst ourselves that this model leads to a lousy future for our cities, and then help/pressurize the government. Its a very base-level question - we can debate the mechanics and implementation details later.
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Old 20th December 2008, 23:38   #67
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Anything it might come out to be, the first thing is that this is for us, so no taxes on us in the name of abcd cess or some other reason.
Moreover as this is for us, the implementation must be well planned and not just perfect in picture, but in real life format. It all depends on what this " Climate Revolution " move turns out to be for those who will be affected the most.

I doubt that thing will really improve to the extent that people will stop using cars. If they do, the public transport will get overloaded. We need some very serious rethinking in all the cases.
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Old 21st December 2008, 01:00   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
It all depends on what this " Climate Revolution " move turns out to be for those who will be affected the most.
At various points in time:

Air Pollution Causes More Deaths Than HIV/AIDS And Road Accidents - Pharmaceuticals & Healthcare Insight
Air pollution 'bigger killer than road accidents' - SpecialsEnvironment - www.smh.com.au
Road Accidents, Air* Pollution and Noise Pollution
World Environment News - More die from car pollution than road accidents - WHO - Planet Ark
More Die From Car Pollution Than Road Accidents -- Mr. John Germanos From Germany Requests "Letter of Intent & Contract" for Germany and Greece From Adcapital Industries | Market Wire | Find Articles at BNET

and thats just from a cursory glance. Kinda shows who's really affected, doesn't it ?

Quote:
I doubt that thing will really improve to the extent that people will stop using cars. If they do, the public transport will get overloaded. We need some very serious rethinking in all the cases.
Thats the worry. "Public transport is now good enough" is such a subjective call - and its been shown that perception led behaviour does not change too easily - that I think some stick will be good as well - not taxing ownership more, but usage within city limits - including congestion charges, stiff parking fees, etc.
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Old 19th September 2009, 18:38   #69
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Have you ever ridden a cycle in Mumbai ?

You are always in threat of getting run over by bigger vehicles. Once a Bus hit my cycle. I left cycling that day.

You cannot expect me to cycle for Long Distances. I am not going to take part in the races with Lance Armstrong.

I love to drive cars and so will I.
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Old 19th September 2009, 22:06   #70
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Damn... the govt. is hellbent on making our lives as miserable as possible. The intent of the bill is good, but at what cost.

Firstly none of our big-cities (maybe Delhi excepting) has a good public transport system. People are packed like Sardines in extremely unreliable service. If I want a little comfort and pay through my nose to use private transport, somebody somewhere doesn't like it.

Sometimes the hypocrisy of people in power just amazes me. If climate change was a concern, I think the govt. could have done these first.
  • Look at fuel quality across the country. Heck whenever I drive to rural Karnataka, I see blue hue in Diesel. Quite obvious that it has Kerosene mixed in it.
  • Euro - 5 norms: why wait for it? If carmakers across the world have the technology, why not force them to bring it to the country as soon as possible
  • Lorries - Why tolerate rampant overloading and 15+ year old smoke belching and cough inducing monsters on our roads. Every time somebody tries to act smart, the thugs call for a strike and hold the country to ransom.
Alas we car-owners are always a soft target for all this.
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Old 19th September 2009, 23:15   #71
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A new joke.
What we need is this :

1) Planning.
When any society or multistory building is built, why facailtiy is not made available ? This is the first step towards proper parking space availability. Why no such law is made to make parking space available to residences. The plans that have properly allocated space will only be passed. If this is implemented, most of problems will never come up.

Who is responsible for this ?

2) Can we have data on how much fuel is spent and how much pollution is done by minister's and their relative's cars ?

3) Giving better quality roads, giving license to people who are aware that they are actually driving, better quality fuel can go a long way in reducing pollution.

4) Is there any sign of an efficient, safe and secure, well planned public transport in world's biggest democracy ? Why government is mum on this.

The GOI is classic example of wrong people heading a nation. Useless laws. If government has a right to implement laws, they have certain responsibilities too. What GOI is doing is simple, never think of responsibilities, just use the rights they have in such a manner that the common man, specially the salaried middle class suffers. No wonder, the toughest thing in India is to buy a reasonably spacious, well ventilated house.
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