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Old 11th January 2009, 22:46   #466
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[quote=romeomidhun;1125293]Swift sells nearly 9000 per month. And i20 selling 1250 pm will not make too much of a difference to Swift, but only to Fabia.quote]

Its only couple of guys in this forum who are busy comparing this car with the Swift. No one in Hyundai or in the European market speaks of swift vs i20. This car is a premium compact car and swift does not belong here. The current competition is Fabia (I am not sure whats happenned to the SRV). Future competition is Jazz & Golf. If the auto industry sees a quick revival from the current situation, this is the segment we all should watch. This segment is likely to do well in all metro cities, especially Mumbai, Bangalore, Pune.

Mr romeomidhun, swift nos will not get affected much as their nos. are mostly from the diesel Swift. Petrol Swift nos have come down drastically. Maybe with i10 diesel coming in, this no. may get affected. Otherwise 7-8000 nos. should not be a big problem at all.

I am not sure after the fuel prices come down, how it will impact the purchase pattern between diesel & petrol. whats your opinion mates?
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Old 11th January 2009, 23:46   #467
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Originally Posted by bimi View Post
Just wait fo the truck strike to get over and most of the dealerships will get more cars for display. Then they will start giving test drives too. Till then you can drool!
Hah!

How come the Lineas were not affected by the truck strike ? Oh well, they are now part of Tata

And yes 7000-8000 cars per month is a HUGE figure. Maybe you could ask Fabia, they'd spend a lifetime to sell 8000 cars
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Old 12th January 2009, 00:02   #468
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Originally Posted by Fountainheader View Post
Hah!

How come the Lineas were not affected by the truck strike ? Oh well, they are now part of Tata

And yes 7000-8000 cars per month is a HUGE figure. Maybe you could ask Fabia, they'd spend a lifetime to sell 8000 cars
Remember Linea was to be launched on 16th Dec. Maybe already lot of Lineas were being sent to dealers and all (maybe all of '08 built ones).

Anyway I think bimi does have a point about i20 not competing against Swift. Fabia has opened a new segment (and that is the reason why Overdrive gave it Car of the Year award - as claimed by them!). In coming years this segment is going to be quite interesting as cities like Delhi,Mum,Blore etc are getting very congested for people to drive. Hatches are the future and people who can afford will go for premium hatches even for C segment prices! Just wait and watch!!!
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Old 12th January 2009, 00:29   #469
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Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
In coming years this segment is going to be quite interesting as cities like Delhi,Mum,Blore etc are getting very congested for people to drive. Hatches are the future and people who can afford will go for premium hatches even for C segment prices! Just wait and watch!!!
Agree with you mate, my only real grouse is that manufacturers need to be mature enough to offer more choice to the customers in terms of engine range. I understand the concept of bringing in certain capacity engines to take advantage of tax breaks - but I should have the privilege of deciding whether I really want to put in another 50-75K for a faster/more fun to drive car!
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Old 12th January 2009, 00:43   #470
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I checked out the i20 (top model) over the weekend. Someone raised a point about the rear leg-room being short. I checked this out thoroughly and found that when the front seat is in a comfortable position, the rear leg-room is very good (though not as good as, say, the G2HC). I am 5'10" tall not not lithe at 72 KG.

Interior quality is in a different league (better) compared to the G2HC. Goes to show the difference between a car for the European market, and one for the Asian market (comparing it to the G2HC since I own one and is my only real point of reference to the i20). It imparts a sense of occasion that the G2HC is simply incapable of. Never thought I would say this for a Hyundai!

One shortcoming is that the rear seatback is too upright (like in the Getz) and this is what prevents you from being really comfortable. Edit: another (IMHO) is the 'forced' styling cues - I am not sure if the styling would age especially well.

I have not driven the car so cannot comment on the driving dynamics at all. All I would say is that this car would be perfect with a 2.0 liter motor with 150 bhp (I am reasonably sure that the chassis is good enough for that). But since hatches with good power seem to out of favour, I would stick to the GTX!

Last edited by vipul_singh : 12th January 2009 at 00:47.
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Old 12th January 2009, 00:54   #471
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Checked it out the other day but no td yet - interior quality puts many D segment cars to shame other than one or two tacky panels. Driving position is decent. However with seat fully back, there's hardly any room at the rear.

Proper TD report later once the car is available for td.
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Old 12th January 2009, 10:52   #472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarScream View Post
should have had one or two of these: fog lights, alloys, CD player, alarm system.
"One of these" : Rs. 5,000 (alarm system). "Two of these" : Rs. 10,000 (Basic CD player + alarm or fogs). Sure, I can see how the lack of Rs. 10,000 worth in accessories can make a car look over-priced. 10K BTW is 1.3% of the value of the car, so even if it is over-priced (by your perspective), that's a pretty minute percentage. There is a subtle (yet significant difference) between a car lacking features vis a vis an overpriced one. The Fabia is filled to the brim in features, yet is woefully overpriced. The Accord is a superbly priced luxury sedan, but lacks in certain features.

The market didn't really think that the NHC was too overpriced. The car was a stellar success at the time of its launch, in mid-life and even toward the final months of production (end 2008)! Simply put, the NHC gave its target segment EXACTLY what they were looking for at a price that they thought is reasonable. It was, after all, the segment leader throughout its lifespan. As much as I love the ANHC, it is not a fitting replacement for the overtly practical NHC.

Does Honda charge a premium for its cars? Of course YES (and so does Toyota). Honda have learnt with the Civic that they can't always get away with it.

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Originally Posted by lancer_rit View Post
Not really. You forget Fusion and Optra SRV:-)
You forget that one is already out of production (SRV) while the other is on the verge of, if not already (Fusion). Any comparisons will be a futile exercise.

Quote:
The previous 2 have much bigger and powerful engines and they still flopped. So, I don't think having a 1.2l engine in a premium hatch automatically means failure.
Please search within the forum to know more about their reason of failure. I can assure you that it had little to do with big engines.

Quote:
And whats so special about hatchbacks that does not applies to sedans and UVs, may I ask ?
Again, I am going to have to ask you to get your facts right. Read my prior posts before commenting. I have also clearly stated that ANY premium car (not only a hatch) should NOT have a compromise.

Quote:
Why did the NHC iDSI compromise on the engine ?
Sure did! I'll be the first to tell you that and I did put my money where my mouth is. I bought the outgoing OHC Vtec at a time when the NHC was already in the showrooms. Primary reason : Looks & power.

Quote:
Volkswagen sells/used to sell the Passat in Germany with a 1.6l 100bhp engine option - so should I consider it a premium sedan or not ?
A compromised premium sedan. Very much like the Mercedes C180 that was sold in India.

Quote:
I don't see why someone wont buy it over a Swift ZXi by paying the difference of features that the swift can only dream of
As a new member has posted, the ZXI accounts for a small number of the Swifts sales. Plus, the i20s pricing actually brings it bang in Swift diesel territory. When you are competing with the 2nd best selling hatch in the country, and bring lesser power / efficiency / torque & (we can safely presume) resale, you better have a concrete plan chalked out. I am afraid Hyundai doesn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reppy View Post
Well, they want to sell ~1250 cars a month (15k a year). They want to obviously take away Fabia & Swift market-share.
Even San Storm can take away market share from the Fabia ! That's really not saying something, is it? I hope Hyundai have planned better than to take away market share from the worst selling hatch in the country.

Quote:
They're not going after the low-budget buyer in this case.
I repeat : A 10 - 15% premium is HUGE, even in the 13 lakh segment of Civics & Corollas. The sub-6 lakh price band consists of the most sensitive customers. Market history attests to this fact.

Quote:
Wow. Did you TD it or read any reports before coming up with this theory of lesser fuel effiency?
It's simple physics. A lighter car with approximately the same power will have better efficiency in most cases.

Quote:
And yes, people will definitely pay more for a non-Maruti hatchback if it is better built and offers more.
Sigh, wouldn't the Getz have wished? Many of Marutis products don't have an edge in build quality vis a vis its competitors (look up my Swift / SX4 thread). Still.....

Quote:
Maybe it is. But I've driven my cousin's ZXI many times so I know its pretty good.
Maybe it is? Or isn't it? You need to take a clear stand. Happy to hear that you thought its pretty good, but 90% of Swift owners do complain about the low end torque in the Swift petrol.
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Old 12th January 2009, 13:48   #473
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
As a new member has posted, the ZXI accounts for a small number of the Swifts sales. Plus, the i20s pricing actually brings it bang in Swift diesel territory. When you are competing with the 2nd best selling hatch in the country, and bring lesser power / efficiency / torque & (we can safely presume) resale, you better have a concrete plan chalked out. I am afraid Hyundai doesn't.
Hyundai gave you the answer - instead of targeting those customers who are looking for power/efficiency/torque, they are after the customers who are rating features/build quality/safety over power/torque/efficiency etc. Moreover, Hyundai could have put in the 1.4 and raised the price by another 20-30k, making the car look like an awesome deal at 6-6.2 lacs on road. But the government policy does not allow them to do that - they'll be slapped with an extra 8% excise.

And as I said earlier, Hyundai could've removed a lot of the extra features and sell it at Swift ZXI-level prices. How would this car be different, then?

If this car is competing with the Fabia, then this car is certainly not overpriced. If it is competing with the Swift, then its offering more features/higher build quality than the Swift at a higher price with a reduction in performance, like many other cars that compete with the Swift (they're old so they're discounted now). So the question is - which segment does this car belong to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Even San Storm can take away market share from the Fabia ! That's really not saying something, is it? I hope Hyundai have planned better than to take away market share from the worst selling hatch in the country.
So lets just say that the i20, and not the Fabia, is going to create the opening for the premium supermini segment, since it'll sell better than the Fabia atleast. Peace! cheers:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
It's simple physics. A lighter car with approximately the same power will have better efficiency in most cases.
And if the heavier car has a lower coefficient of drag and a tuned-for-torque/efficiency version of the same engine/gearbox? I think theres more involved here. We should not just write down a car going by basic bhp/torque/weight figures.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Maybe it is? Or isn't it? You need to take a clear stand. Happy to hear that you thought its pretty good, but 90% of Swift owners do complain about the low end torque in the Swift petrol.
[/quote]

Maybe it is as per you or the forum*. I clearly gave you my perception.
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Old 12th January 2009, 14:47   #474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reppy View Post
Hyundai could have put in the 1.4 and raised the price by another 20-30k, making the car look like an awesome deal at 6-6.2 lacs on road. But the government policy does not allow them to do that - they'll be slapped with an extra 8% excise.
So you agree that i20 is not an awesome deal. It's just an above-average deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reppy View Post
So lets just say that the i20, and not the Fabia, is going to create the opening for the premium supermini segment, since it'll sell better than the Fabia atleast. Peace!
In the coming months, you will see even i20 can't open a new segment. They can do that only if they bring this car with a 1.4 ltr petrol and crdi diesel engines at the current price.

Moreover, something selling more than Fabia doesn't mean that it opened a new segment. It should sell reasonably well. A monthly sale of 1000-1250 is not a reasonable sales figure in the hatch segment.

.

Last edited by romeomidhun : 12th January 2009 at 14:51.
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Old 12th January 2009, 16:24   #475
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Well I am just amazed at he kind of features Hyundai is brought to India. We should really thank hyundai for Finally bringing Electrical Foldable/Adjustable Sidemirrors, ABS, EBD, Airbag, Auto AC, rear defogger & wiper to a hatch its like all in one car. The price is decent enough too. Its very sad I cant afford it at the moment. Lets hope discounts come in in coming months. Asta model will be a steal @5.6L and if am not wrong Swift ZXI used to be that price. Lets see where Maruti hides its face now.

In todays world what matters to mass is not speed or bhp but Mileage Economy and Capital involved in buying the car.
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Old 12th January 2009, 16:47   #476
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Well I am just amazed at he kind of features Hyundai is brought to India. We should really thank hyundai for Finally bringing Electrical Foldable/Adjustable Sidemirrors, ABS, EBD, Airbag, Auto AC, rear defogger & wiper to a hatch its like all in one car. The price is decent enough too. Its very sad I cant afford it at the moment. Lets hope discounts come in in coming months. Asta model will be a steal @5.6L and if am not wrong Swift ZXI used to be that price. Lets see where Maruti hides its face now.
Another blind Hyundai praiser here? Swift ZXI offers all thse features except elec. side mirrors, for just 5.1 lakh on Delhi, as against 5.6 lakh of i20. Again, Swift has a superb 1.3L engine as against 1.2L of i20. Moreover, even though i20 enjoys the tax benefit and Swift doesn't, it is priced 50,000 above Swift. And 50,000 is a big difference in hatch segment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodystopme View Post
In todays world what matters to mass is not speed or bhp but Mileage Economy and Capital involved in buying the car.
You are correct. The capital involved in buying the car does matter the most in this segment, and the overpriced i20 fails in this area.

.

Last edited by romeomidhun : 12th January 2009 at 16:54.
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Old 12th January 2009, 16:55   #477
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I wish Hyundai should now kill the Getz, which is supposed to be hardly selling. Having too many cars of too many generations seems to a Suzuki or American way of selling, and it has been proved that GM's losses could be reduced substantially if the message is clear and the product line leaner.

Heard of that famous tag line: I want Coke?? Which Coke: Coke Diet?? Coke Classic??? Coke Lite???. OK, give me a Pepsi.
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Old 12th January 2009, 17:15   #478
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I don't understand why do we have to bash Fabia everytime we discuss the Swift or Getz or i20 etc etc.

Fabia is clearly not meant for a "average" hatch buyer. Yes it is overpriced, but I have yet to hear a Fabia owner complain about price etc.

Coming back to topic the ONLY flaw with i20 is the 1.2L engine. and that IS WHY it is being accused of being overpriced. but we have i10 'kappa' being accused of being overpriced inspite of having a better engine and features, so there you go.

I guess most who cry themselves hoarse over i10 being overpriced are the ones who wud rather prefer a discounted Wagon R than a clearly leagues ahead i10.

I would also like to offer another point of view

Also has anyone looked at profitibility?? The reason why Maruti kept its numbers in the last 6 months in face of i10 onslaught is by offering huge discounts (wagor R, Estilo, Alto and even Swift Petrol)!! when was the last time you got a "BIG" discount on a Hyundai hatch ?

Take hero honda and Bajaj for example - for years HH sold twice as many bikes, but Bajaj has better profitibility.

Cars DONT HAVE to be priced within 10000 rs of each other you know

Elito
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Old 12th January 2009, 17:17   #479
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Noooooo! Let the Getz live. It is the only truly hot hatch in the country. (As long as hot counts for road searing performance)
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Old 12th January 2009, 17:20   #480
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Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
Another blind Hyundai praiser here? Swift ZXI offers all thse features except elec. side mirrors, for just 5.1 lakh on Delhi, as against 5.6 lakh of i20. Again, Swift has a superb 1.3L engine as against 1.2L of i20. Moreover, even though i20 enjoys the tax benefit and Swift doesn't, it is priced 50,000 above Swift. And 50,000 is a big difference in hatch segment.

You are correct. The capital involved in buying the car does matter the most in this segment, and the overpriced i20 fails in this area.

.
Sure, Swift is a very good car for that price. However the quality you get for that price may not be good. Just two simple examples for you to think over: 1- Shut the doors of the i20 & then the Swift - not only will you see quality, you will hear them too; 2- why is it that the swift is not exported from India or have you seen the swift what is available abroad and what is available here? - believe me, its really different.

If you have a chance to compare cars like Jazz, Bravo, Golf etc, you will understand where i20 belongs to and where Swift can be placed. Again I repeat, Swift is a good car, but I feel it cannot be compared to i20. The issue is you need to think beyond Swift.

If you need to be convinced about Hyundai, the best way is to try and visit their factory once, anyway you are in Chennai only.

I changed my opinion about Hyundai after seeing their factory and their production line. I went there as a part of a corporate visit. If you are working for a major corporate, they will surely look into your request (of course it has to be a group, not on an idividual basis)
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