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Old 12th January 2009, 21:18   #496
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Originally Posted by gunbir View Post

I see many play the numbers card to defend the competition. Sure the Swift sells 9000 units a month. Well, the M800 probably still sells more than that, so does that make it a superior car than the Swift?
You seem to be going overboard here. Well lets just compare Swift with it competitors. From where did M800 come into the picture. I had responded to one members comment saying Swift s design is older & people would prefer i20 s looks. Kindly understand the post before commenting .
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Old 12th January 2009, 21:20   #497
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Originally Posted by vasudeva View Post
Heard of that famous tag line: I want Coke?? Which Coke: Coke Diet?? Coke Classic??? Coke Lite???. OK, give me a Pepsi.
Pepsi
Diet Pepsi
Pepsi Gold
Pepsi Free
Pepsi Blue
Pepsi AM
Pepsi Kona
Pepsi One
Pepsi Vanilla
Diet Pepsi Vanilla
Pepsi Cherry
Pepsi Raw
Crystal Pepsi
I can go on.
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Old 12th January 2009, 21:44   #498
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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
Pepsi
Diet Pepsi
Pepsi Gold
Pepsi Free
Pepsi Blue
Pepsi AM
Pepsi Kona
Pepsi One
Pepsi Vanilla
Diet Pepsi Vanilla
Pepsi Cherry
Pepsi Raw
Crystal Pepsi
I can go on.
haha good ans. now it's coke vs pepsi instead of i20 vs fabia or swift or bla bla. well..!! forget coke. forget pepsi. gimme something full of vit. M, something raw beast... plonk 1.5L VGT and gimme red.
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Old 12th January 2009, 21:55   #499
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Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
Even though Swift is a 5-year old design, it still looks refreshingly different than any other car in India. The success of Swift depends on its looks too.
The Swift in no doubt was a revolutionary design,but it is now getting old. Maruti is not really bothered about any facelift yet. And Swift still uses an age old engine and build quality is not upto global standards.

IMHO the i10 success is mainly due to its interiors. The same applies to i20 also. When you are spending 5+ lakhs on car , you should feel that when you sit inside it, regardless of what is under the hood. i20 delivers just that. And remember Kappa engine is the latest engine series from Hyundai.
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Old 12th January 2009, 22:05   #500
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Originally Posted by gunbir View Post
I've been following this thread for a while now, and some things don't make sense at all.

According to some people the Getz was supposed to be overpriced because it didn't have ABS, Airbags etc. Even though it was roomier, more comfortable, better built and to some, even better looking.

Now people find the i20 overpriced even though it's loaded enough to embarrass cars costing twice as much. It's an international model, launched first in India. It's better built than the Getz, which is saying something for a car in this segment. Initial reports clearly suggest the car has decent performance.

If the i20 is overpriced, what are cars like Chevrolet SRV, Skoda Fabia? Anybody with an open mind will see that the i20 is a VFM product. You get a lot of value for what you pay. Having experienced the car in person, I have trouble digesting opinions that proclaim any product such as this overpriced.

I see many play the numbers card to defend the competition. Sure the Swift sells 9000 units a month. Well, the M800 probably still sells more than that, so does that make it a superior car than the Swift?
It is clear from many comments that many who criticized never saw i20 and many complained i20 is underpowered; no one who test drove did.
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Old 12th January 2009, 22:12   #501
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Hi people,
This is my first post at team-bhp though have been following the forum for a while now. So a big hello to everyone!

I've been owning a Swift vxi(abs) for the past 3 years. Recently checked out the i20 (no TD yet) and was quite impressed.

Now, here's a factual comparison of Swift (P), i20 and Fabia.

In the attached xls, the first worksheet gives the differences between swift vxi and i20 Magna while the second one gives the differences between Swift zxi, i20 Asta and Fabia 1.2 Ambiente.

My two pence:
For around 10% premium, i20 aces Swift in space, build quality and features.
Swift holds an edge on the engine and driving dynamics (though we still don't know about the i20 kappa). I think '***' and running costs are a draw between both.

If you look at the tech specs, i20 generates all its 79bhp at a lower rpm of 5200 (Swift 87@6000) which makes one think that it'll be a peppy engine and may surprise all those who are bashing it now!

I fear i20 sounds the death knell of Fabia (not that it needed to be sounded anyways!).

To sum up, i20 may well deliver what Fabia failed to:
a premium hatch at an 'affordable' price.

Of course, we'll soon see how the shrewd Indian customer welcomes the i20 - open arms or a cold shrug...and yes, to the Punto and Jazz...bring it on!
Attached Files
File Type: xls swift_i20_fabia.xls (63.5 KB, 337 views)
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Old 12th January 2009, 22:13   #502
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
You forget that one is already out of production (SRV) while the other is on the verge of, if not already (Fusion). Any comparisons will be a futile exercise.
Well, I was not aware of that, though I do know they sell next to nothing (why I put the smiley). They are, both, on sale as per official websites of the 2 companies.
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Please search within the forum to know more about their reason of failure. I can assure you that it had little to do with big engines.
I don't disagree with you. Maybe, I did not express clearly. I wanted to make the point that 'best engines' alone don't make a successful car (though for me, engine is one of the most imp criteria). In other words, car models can be successful w/o the 'best engine' in class (No hatch tops Fusion's 1.6l petrol engine). Why hatches, NHC was itself proof of a car succeeding despite its engine specs. Gearing and gearbox also matter a lot for performance and FE.

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Sure did! I'll be the first to tell you that and I did put my money where my mouth is. I bought the outgoing OHC Vtec at a time when the NHC was already in the showrooms. Primary reason : Looks & power.
And hence, I am all with you there. NHC succeeded due to the overall package, and I was trying to suggest that the i20 _may_ succeed due to the overall package, if people find it that way. Should the car price not be lower ? Sure - however, many cars are overpriced in the Indian market. I just tried to place another way of looking at the i20 specs/features/utility and price.

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
"
A compromised premium sedan. Very much like the Mercedes C180 that was sold in India.
Well I would agree, in general, to that. But since the examples are of Volkswagen and Mercedes, I guess Hyundai is not doing anything remotely new in terms of a smaller engine in a 'premium' offering. They should provide other engine options as well, and that would make the i20 line more balanced.

BTW, in the Passat 1.6, I touched 200kmph, and it was pretty fast to the 150kmph mark in practical driving terms (not from a sporty point of view). What I mean is that I overtook hundreds of vehicles on the Autobahn in my drives (very very few overtook me), and the 1.6 did not really hinder my doing so almost all of the time (of course, I was lucky that no Porsche or BMW was in front / behind me :-))

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
As a new member has posted, the ZXI accounts for a small number of the Swifts sales. Plus, the i20s pricing actually brings it bang in Swift diesel territory. When you are competing with the 2nd best selling hatch in the country, and bring lesser power / efficiency / torque & (we can safely presume) resale, you better have a concrete plan chalked out. I am afraid Hyundai doesn't.
Probably, or probably they want to work it the i10 way. Release with lower spec engine and chalk up sales with novelty, looks and features. Then, launch a higher end engine, split the models and add to it, and charge more for the bigger engined one(s).
That said, Hyundai did blunder with cars like Getz, Elantra and Sonata (the current version), so its possible they are not having a clear idea of how to go about it above the Santro/Accent/i10 range.
BTW, Swift Petrol does not provide that high a mileage. It is comparable to what i20 is reported to provide. The diesel is a different story altogether.
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I repeat : A 10 - 15% premium is HUGE, even in the 13 lakh segment of Civics & Corollas. The sub-6 lakh price band consists of the most sensitive customers. Market history attests to this fact.
I agree with what you say about premium in the hatch segment - 10% is huge, but then i20 is a much bigger car and with more features than Swift - maybe, its a different segment altogether with the Fabia (& later the Jazz) OTOH, 10-15% premium may not count in in 10l+ segment. Civic charged 20-25% premium over Optra, Cedia, Elantra and still sold more than all of them and Corolla combined during its heyday. Only the Altis launch has halted Civic sales. So, it depends on the cars, their brands, their capabilities, looks and cost, right ?

Cheers,
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Old 13th January 2009, 00:21   #503
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Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
So you agree that i20 is not an awesome deal. It's just an above-average deal.
I've always said consistently in the forum that the i20 (Asta) at 5.9 on-road is a good overall package. Good. Not awesome - it could've been that had it been 15-20k cheaper, but I think a 10k-15k discount after 1-2 yrs will easily make this deal look great!


Quote:
Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
Moreover, something selling more than Fabia doesn't mean that it opened a new segment. It should sell reasonably well. A monthly sale of 1000-1250 is not a reasonable sales figure in the hatch segment.
Hyundai plans to manufacture 1.5 lac i20s, with 15k earmarked for the domestic market. so 1250/month is all Hyundai wants. At the current variants/prices it looks possible.
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Old 13th January 2009, 09:19   #504
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[quote=reppy;1127736]I've always said consistently in the forum that the i20 (Asta) at 5.9 on-road is a good overall package. Good. Not awesome - it could 've been that had it been 15-20k cheaper, but I think a 10k-15k discount after 1-2 yrs will easily make this deal look great!

That's In ND, Gurgaon etc. Here in Pune Asta costs 6.36 on-road, and in Mumbai & Banglore it will be even more. Asta(o) costs 6.86L!! That's really too high. I would consider it if prices are less by at least 50k for petrol variant or if it comes with 1.4 Diesel engine. In fact, for diesel i20 Asta, I think the right price would be around 6.5L max on road. On-road price matters, I don't understand that x-y-z showroom costs!
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Old 13th January 2009, 09:52   #505
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Diesel i20, also with less features.
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Old 13th January 2009, 10:10   #506
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[quote=manish7;1127871]
Quote:
Originally Posted by reppy View Post
I've always said consistently in the forum that the i20 (Asta) at 5.9 on-road is a good overall package. Good. Not awesome - it could 've been that had it been 15-20k cheaper, but I think a 10k-15k discount after 1-2 yrs will easily make this deal look great!

That's In ND, Gurgaon etc. Here in Pune Asta costs 6.36 on-road, and in Mumbai & Banglore it will be even more. Asta(o) costs 6.86L!! That's really too high. I would consider it if prices are less by at least 50k for petrol variant or if it comes with 1.4 Diesel engine. In fact, for diesel i20 Asta, I think the right price would be around 6.5L max on road. On-road price matters, I don't understand that x-y-z showroom costs!
How is Hyundai responsible for ON ROAD prices?

We should look at ex-showroom prices only when comparing. car manufacturers are not responsible for taxes or insurance etc.
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Old 13th January 2009, 10:33   #507
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Originally Posted by Gangsta View Post
Diesel i20, also with less features.
Rightly said, sir. Most of us want a good hatch with a good engine, and a nice set of features and good safety. Twin airbags and ABS is welcome. But going OTT with all those features and offering a small engine might not work in India. What're Hyundai trying- to emulate Audi A3 and BMW 1 series?
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Old 13th January 2009, 10:43   #508
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guys does it come with a 110hp crdi engine?
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Old 13th January 2009, 11:10   #509
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Originally Posted by tuner's inc View Post
guys does it come with a 110hp crdi engine?
Does it come or will it come ?

It currently doesnt, but I am sure Hyundai does plan to kill the Getz CRDi and come up with another overpriced Diesel hatch.
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Old 13th January 2009, 12:07   #510
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due to the taxes, they will surely come with 1.4L diesel, displacement will be something 13XX CC. 90 hp, 220 nm torque. it will be fast like verna and getz diesel because of the lighter weight. well they may increase the weight because of the fact that diesel engines are heavier than the petrol.
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