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Old 14th January 2009, 17:24   #541
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Originally Posted by SkyWalker View Post
Really? - lets see how they fared in the 6L+ segment
  • Accent - good success (only competition at that time - ikon & corsa)
  • Getz - failed miserably
  • Verna Petrol - failed badly
  • Verna Diesel - doing decent - no competition - lets wait what happens when Linea D & SX4 D gets launched
  • Elantra - failed so bad - and they don't have a replacement yet
  • Sonata - failed miserably
my friend, they are skating on thin ice here. Getz,Sonata are good cars. And you can be sure that i20 is going in that list as another good car failed due to overpricing.
I don't think Elantra and Sonata failed due to over pricing. There are terrific VFM cars. But image matters in that segment especially when competing with likes of Hondas and Toyota. Remember Maruti's Grand Vitara is an utter failure, even with Maruti's image. I don't think anybody who buy car below 8 lakhs think too much about image.

I hope you have seen i20 before judging it overpriced.
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Old 14th January 2009, 17:41   #542
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Originally Posted by SkyWalker View Post
Really? - lets see how they fared in the 6L+ segment
  • Accent - good success (only competition at that time - ikon & corsa)
  • Getz - failed miserably
  • Verna Petrol - failed badly
  • Verna Diesel - doing decent - no competition - lets wait what happens when Linea D & SX4 D gets launched
  • Elantra - failed so bad - and they don't have a replacement yet
  • Sonata - failed miserably
my friend, they are skating on thin ice here. Getz,Sonata are good cars. And you can be sure that i20 is going in that list as another good car failed due to overpricing.
Ha ha, thats quite a list there. Hyundai consistent on overpricing cars and making them fail in the country where it is manufactured. By manufacturing the car in India, they have brough down the total cost of a vehicle, but this difference is passed on only to the overseas markets and not for India. What an irony Hyundai is confused on how to place their products in the Indian market(Premium product or mass product)
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Old 14th January 2009, 18:54   #543
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Ha ha, thats quite a list there. Hyundai consistent on overpricing cars and making them fail in the country where it is manufactured. By manufacturing the car in India, they have brough down the total cost of a vehicle, but this difference is passed on only to the overseas markets and not for India. What an irony Hyundai is confused on how to place their products in the Indian market(Premium product or mass product)
Alright appreciate your point.
But tell us should it matter to a customer? Should it matter if a car is percieved as "failed" ? There is a thread on fabia in the experiences section and most people who own one are happy with it! Similarly Cedia could be considered a "failed" car but people who own it are quite happy with it.
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Old 14th January 2009, 19:11   #544
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Alright appreciate your point.
But tell us should it matter to a customer? Should it matter if a car is percieved as "failed" ? There is a thread on fabia in the experiences section and most people who own one are happy with it! Similarly Cedia could be considered a "failed" car but people who own it are quite happy with it.
Definitely it matters to the mass market. Both Fabia and Cedia are not in mass markets I believe, but I20 is very much in it. Mass markets look at re-sale values why the luxury segment(fabia and cedia) does not look at it. If a car is perceived as a failure in mass market, the re-sale value plummets. Look what happened to Palio. This is just an opinion.
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Old 14th January 2009, 19:16   #545
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ok guys let us forget maruti swift for a moment. since fiat punto and honda jazz are premium hatches with similar dimensions as of i20 , i would like you guys to speculate on there engine specifications .
since now specification of punto's sedan version (linea) is out and its petrol version starts at 6.2 lacs, if punto is launched with similar specs (1.4 ltr petrol) and features as that of base version of sedan at around 1 lac rupee less that is 5.2 lacs, one can draw comparison with i20.If it gets 1.2 ltr engine at a price around 1.4 lacs less then sedan that is 4.8 lacs ex showroom then it takes i20 head on.
By this way we might be able to project the pricing and specs of this new premium hatch segment.
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Old 14th January 2009, 19:43   #546
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If FIAT can launch GP before i20 gains momentum, it is sure that they'll rock the segment just as Linea did especially with its diesel engine. I doubt Honda can match the pricing of Punto. But FIAT has to bring the features that i20 brought, that may delay its launch.
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Old 14th January 2009, 20:50   #547
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Originally Posted by vinayasurya View Post
I don't think Elantra and Sonata failed due to over pricing. There are terrific VFM cars. But image matters in that segment especially when competing with likes of Hondas and Toyota.
Agree - specially about Sonata Embera. Now let me ask what happens when Honda launches Jazz? Will someone pay a premium for i20? I am sure it will have a very frugal 1.3L iVtec engine (100 bhp) and give at least 13kmpl in city.

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Originally Posted by vinayasurya View Post
I don't think anybody who buy car below 8 lakhs think too much about image.
I think you will be surprised here my friend. Anyone who pays hard earned money will care about the image. Its just that there were not too many choices under 8L.

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Originally Posted by vinayasurya View Post
I hope you have seen i20 before judging it overpriced.
I didn't drive it - since i am not in the market for a premium hatch now, but i did see it. I would have thought Hundai learnt form the mistakes of Getz. I will take my words back if 6 months down the line its selling even decently.

Last edited by SkyWalker : 14th January 2009 at 20:51.
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Old 14th January 2009, 21:32   #548
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Originally Posted by vinayasurya View Post
If FIAT can launch GP before i20 gains momentum, it is sure that they'll rock the segment just as Linea did especially with its diesel engine. I doubt Honda can match the pricing of Punto. But FIAT has to bring the features that i20 brought, that may delay its launch.
FIAT will not bring all the features present in I20. They will wait for a few months to see how I20 is doing in the market. They will remove some unnecessary frills in the I20 features set and get the Punto loaded with it and price aggressively.They will definitely bring in a 1.2 litre petrol engine for the excise benefits, but the real sales will be with the diesel.
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Old 14th January 2009, 21:44   #549
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6.5L in mumbai Is definately alot for i20. But thankfully its cheaper in delhi. Yesterday when i checked its on road price on Carwalle.com it came around 5.9L for Asta in delhi. But today its coming around 6.10L?
Thats surprise has company increased the price or what? And there's no price for swift at the moment.

Guys Just chill Lets just wait and watch how i20 sells. I have a feeling that its Magna model will sell good. My heart is set on Asta only. Lets hope it comes down to 5.5L from 6.10L in sometime.

I wish if we all(indians) could like boycott i20 for few months. Price will definately come down
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Old 14th January 2009, 21:53   #550
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Originally Posted by SkyWalker View Post
Really? - lets see how they fared in the 6L+ segment
  • Accent - good success (only competition at that time - ikon & corsa)
  • Getz - failed miserably
  • Verna Petrol - failed badly
  • Verna Diesel - doing decent - no competition - lets wait what happens when Linea D & SX4 D gets launched
  • Elantra - failed so bad - and they don't have a replacement yet
  • Sonata - failed miserably
my friend, they are skating on thin ice here. Getz,Sonata are good cars. And you can be sure that i20 is going in that list as another good car failed due to overpricing.
skywalker, I completely agree with GTO's point on this and yours. what gave you the impression that I meant otherwise. I meant the sales # are so bad for 6l+ historically that no one can conclude Hyundai handled it well :-)
probably, you didn't read the previous post in which I agreed with GTO and this line was just affirming the same.
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Old 14th January 2009, 22:05   #551
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It is not intended to be a mass market car (if we are to believe reports that say Hyundai wants to sell only 15k i20s per annum)
It is aimed (esp the Asta version) at people in cities like Delhi/Mumbai where driving a sedan (or for that matter any car) has become more of an ordeal than a luxury (for the driver that is). There are many amongst us who would appreciate a smaller but comfy and luxurious car that can be used for daily office commute.
It is definitely not for those who are looking for a car only for weekend sorties! They would be much better off with a sedan for same price.

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Originally Posted by cruiser_1982 View Post
Definitely it matters to the mass market. Both Fabia and Cedia are not in mass markets I believe, but I20 is very much in it. Mass markets look at re-sale values why the luxury segment(fabia and cedia) does not look at it. If a car is perceived as a failure in mass market, the re-sale value plummets. Look what happened to Palio. This is just an opinion.
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Old 14th January 2009, 22:29   #552
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@lancer_rit : then i got your message wrong. Sorry about it.
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Old 14th January 2009, 22:45   #553
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You are confident without even driving the car that it has better gearing ratios, etc etc. I am not trivliazing anything my freind (in true spirit), all I am saying is that this is not a sports car having spent time in wind tunnel. I will give you an example, Renault F1 R28 (2008 spec car) engine was supposedly underpowered by as little as 30 horses compared to the likes of Mercedez, Ferrari and BMW (less than 2%). Even though it is believed they had the best chasis on the grid, yet they were off the pace by a good margin. It was only Alonso's driving saving grace, but left to Piquet, it was a joke.
Now I dont know about the drag (its actuall funny that we are discussing this for a sub 6 lakh rupee hatch ), aerodynamics, gearing ratios of i20, and how they compare with Swift. Unless you have concrete proof that they make i20 faster/responsive than Swift, I would still say 7% more weight + 9 bhp less on top does make the car sluggish and underpowered imo. Lets just leave this here as we can go on and on...
aseem bhai there is the Autobild test drive report (u can get that in Autobild Jan issue; it is also available on i20 india site in the reviews section) It clearly says that because of different gear ratios, i20 feels very zippy in city driving (and precisely because of this highway performance is not very good!)

Only Question is - how much can we trust Autobild!
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Old 14th January 2009, 22:50   #554
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Originally Posted by vinayasurya View Post
If FIAT can launch GP before i20 gains momentum, it is sure that they'll rock the segment just as Linea did especially with its diesel engine. I doubt Honda can match the pricing of Punto. But FIAT has to bring the features that i20 brought, that may delay its launch.

Hyundai as an entire package is very strong as compared to Fiat. Fiat Palio was doing good and was even having a waiting period, but eventually it failed despite offering diesel motor in both hatchback and sedan format.
GP will not be able to stand against I20 for long because of obvious reasons like A.S & S. Here, Hyundai is second to Maruti.
Only when Fiat sorts out all the management issues, then it will be a serious threat to others.

Right now IMO, I20 has only one competition and that is Fabia. I20 has its own advantages against the lack of diesel engine as of now.
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Old 14th January 2009, 23:27   #555
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Guys Just chill Lets just wait and watch how i20 sells. I have a feeling that its Magna model will sell good. My heart is set on Asta only. Lets hope it comes down to 5.5L from 6.10L in sometime.
The guy who buys a i20 Magna will get boot space and a fresher car. Maybe ICE and some irrelevant frills. So instead he'd go for the i10 Asta and for a lil more he'll get sunroof too! Voila! How is Hyundai going to address this issue ? Stop the i10 Asta ?
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