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Old 17th January 2009, 00:25   #586
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Originally Posted by Fountainheader View Post
Talk highly in what respect ? Fuel efficiency ?

Hyundai definitely has better engines to offer. But think of the early 1.2 buyers, and also about what could be the price point for say a 1.4L petrol.
I think Hyundai will absorb the cost of the excise benefit, 1.2 litre enjoys when launching the 1.4 litre engine. I would bet the difference in each variant will not be more than 15K. If I lose this bet, Hyundai will lose the I20, a better built modern car with all the creature comforts, but overpriced to die

But I am dying to Know the price at which the 1.4 CRDI will be offered. Any idea guys?
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Old 17th January 2009, 00:58   #587
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Agreed. Though we also have to consider how much does the ZXi really sell? Peanuts. If a fully-loaded Swift doesn't move off the showroom floor quick enough, despite Marutis mega brand and distribution strength, that is enough to tell me about our markets acceptability to 6.5 lakh rupee petrol hatchbacks. Atleast until a Honda or Toyota hatch comes around.
Well petrol Swift ZXi does not sell much not only due to high price but due to clashing Vdi prices. If there were Swift ZDi, I believe it would sell in quite a good number. But, I agree that Indian's have fixation on sedans and dont consider hatches worthy of high end positioning.
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The "Indica" badge and near identical profile was enough to restrict its success. How I wish..... The not-so-impressive sales have little to do with the actual product or pricing.
I did read the initial posts of that interesting thread, and the similarity has been a damperner. Also, the car has no safety kit options even. Finally, Tata even stopped advt the car /or reduced it drastically. Plus the timing of launch when the downturn started - I guess Tata was not keen to employ Guigaro again for the new Indica ?

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Glad we are agreeable on the fact that such a small engine is not premium. Now, the key question is, what will they price the premium engine at? They have simply left themselves no room!
Sure, I never said the 1.2l engine is. But I still hold to the view that a premium car may have a not so premium engine. Importantly, the car must have engine options - then, its not hampering the model and brand because interested parties can pick and choose to taste.

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Doesn't matter what I want since I am not the target market by a mile. However, I believe that the maximum price at which the market will accept a premium hatch is just under 6 lakhs for a *premium* petrol (NOT a lousy 1.2) and about 6.6 lakhs (tops) for the diesel. On the road.
Ok, but from a cost perspective, I don't think its feasible. Even Maruti won't be able to price swift at what it does, if the 1.3l completely indigenized, 15+ year old engine of Esteem was not carried forward in tweaked form. No other car manufacturer in India has that advantage of low costs, depreciated plants etc etc.
Probably, if a i20 Magna came with 1.4l, it may be around 6l on road.


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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Exactly my observation. And we were only 2 people going up the Valkeshwar stretch. The engine wheezes & runs out of breath on an incline. Not really a fitting choice for a premium 7 lakh rupee hatch now, is it?
Well, that seems to confirm that pulling power is lacking, atleast on load or on inclines. Then again, I don't know how steep these sections are, I am guessing not that much or it would be mentioned - there are parts of Kalhatti ghats to Ooty, where I need to put my Lancer in 1st gear - since the rpm below 1500 can't pull up that slope.

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Originally Posted by CBlazer View Post
While I'm one of the persons who is complaining about the absence of a more powerful engine on i20, the reviews that I've read about the 1.4, i20 (UK) aren't very encouraging. Most reviews seem to talk highly about the 1.2 (not sure if it is Kappa) as compared to the 1.4. Wonder if Hyundai really has a better petrol engine to offer at all.
CBlazer, the 1.2l in Europe is 1.25l to the 1.2l in India (excise norms) - this has reduced the peak torque (and possibly also impacted the torque curve) by 0.5kgm. The 1.4l makes 99bhp and ~14kgm. If this one is no good, then it has to be due to gearing and torque curve of the engine :-(
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Old 17th January 2009, 12:15   #588
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checked out i20 y'day at Talwar , first impression - Nice goodlooking with enough road presence , wow feature list and quality interiors , pretty expensive for 1.2 engine, however cabin space lesser than getz esp. at rear and the headroom and also rear seats dont recline unlike getz . Was eagerly awaiting the launch to upgrade from Getz , now have to wait til Jazz / punto is launched
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Old 17th January 2009, 13:47   #589
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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Whats the base for this statement.
Simple math actually - Fiat Linea petrol (88 BHP) power to weight ratio : 71 BHP / Ton

ANHC (116 BHP) power to weight ratio : 105 BHP / Ton

The 1.4 petrol is going to be hard-pressed to move that heavy sedan (and its bulk). Considering that the diesel is so well priced and efficient, it is safe to presume which one is going to be the best seller. And the smarter choice as well!

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With 90bhp 1.3 JTD under the hood the Linea will not be a slouch
It won't be a road burner, but atleast it has diesel fuel efficiency and torque. For the record, the Lineas 1.3 JTD has 84.xx BHP, not 90. Fiat rates the engine at 86 PS.

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Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
Oh well I didnt mean in terms of performance. I meant more like in terms of being VFM. Killer looks, plenty of space, good engines (very well respected one in case of diesel), good build quality (+ over the likes of SX4, City), good interiors, features for everyone (city doesnt have auto aircon or alloys), price (biggest +), refreshing new car feel etc etc.
Agreed. And fantastic pricing at that! The only hurdle, and a significant one at that, is low consumer confidence in the Fiat brand.

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Originally Posted by lancer_rit View Post
Well petrol Swift ZXi does not sell much not only due to high price but due to clashing Vdi prices.
Considering our markets fascination with diesels, the Swift LDi will pose stiff competition to the i20 as well. Cross-shopping is extremely prevalent in the sub-7 lakh segment, even across different categories of cars!

Quote:
I did read the initial posts of that interesting thread, and the similarity has been a damperner. Also, the car has no safety kit options even. Finally, Tata even stopped advt the car /or reduced it drastically. Plus the timing of launch when the downturn started - I guess Tata was not keen to employ Guigaro again for the new Indica ?
True, they obviously played it safe with the brand & design. Unfortunately, the 5 lakh hatch customer is looking for something rather different than the image of a 3 lakh hatch.

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But I still hold to the view that a premium car may have a not so premium engine.
We obviously differ here, as I strongly feel that a premium positioned car should offer premium performance. Lets leave it at that.

Quote:
Importantly, the car must have engine options - then, its not hampering the model and brand because interested parties can pick and choose to taste.
I am all for a fitting engine in the i20. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I reiterate that Hyundai have left themselves no room after pricing the 1.2L so high.

Quote:
Ok, but from a cost perspective, I don't think its feasible.
Customers don't care a damn about the costing, what they see is how large a cheque has to be signed out. I certainly don't believe that Hyundai is restricted by costs. And if they are, too bad because the hatch market has cut-throat competition. Which is only expected to go further with new launches. Skoda could cry out loud all they want about their expensive Euro costing. But the market has given the Fabia a fitting answer.

Quote:
Then again, I don't know how steep these sections are, I am guessing not that much or it would be mentioned -
But of course, NOT much! They are regular daily commute roads which even scooters climb just as well. I can only imagine the stress on the i20 if someone has to climb these mundane stretches with 4 passengers.
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Old 17th January 2009, 22:30   #590
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Took a small drive of the i20 Courtesy of our own vivekji05, I must say Hyundai is not what it used to be,the overall package looked too good to be true for a car of this price, this car clearly chews and spits the Fabia out of it's exhaust in one go, the list of features are endless but the quality of the stereo impressed me along with the steering mounted audio controls and the umpteen buttons lit up in red like in a Audi, the audio display was also pretty impressive the 1.2 Kappa engine which felt quite adequate in the i10 fells pretty much underpowered in this car and it feels as if it's taking all day to reach the Tonne mark. The car clearly need a better engine (only for the enthusiasts) every one else wil be pretty much impressed with the current offering.

But I was out of words for all the equipment that was available for this price like 185 R 14 tyres,Keyfob like in the Skoda/Linea, the excellent over assisted and feedback less steering which will be really good for rounds around in the city and the gear shift was just right.
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Old 17th January 2009, 22:46   #591
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I too had a detailed test drive today of i20 and I must say that I am mighty impressed. Have posted the experience in a separate thread.
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Old 18th January 2009, 08:03   #592
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i had a brief tint with the I20. i am 186cm tall. and i had those tractor type woodland shoes on. even then i didnt have to move the front seat back full away just in normal position and i was comfortable. its spacious indeed. !!!! yes if we put the seat all the way back then rear legroom is a bit tight. but that would be like for guys atleast 6feet 4inches minimum. even for them it wouldnt be required to keep the seat completely backwards. for a normal guy 6 feet say 183cm.( 180cm as per indian standards!) people can sit comfortably in the rear. with no probs what so ever!!

and yes the engine thing. its good for city only ! highway drives dont expect to cruise at 120kmph all the time! i didnt take a test drive simply because i hate cars that dont have that torque rush!! i will get this for my dad but petrol is a problem. diesel wont be coming atleast for another 6months!. and yes THEY WILL NEVER PUT THE 1.5L CRDI VERNA ENGINE INTO IT!! :( . there goes all the fun.
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Old 18th January 2009, 09:16   #593
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Originally Posted by sameel View Post
i had a brief tint with the I20. i am 186cm tall. and i had those tractor type woodland shoes on. even then i didnt have to move the front seat back full away just in normal position and i was comfortable. its spacious indeed. !!!! yes if we put the seat all the way back then rear legroom is a bit tight. but that would be like for guys atleast 6feet 4inches minimum. even for them it wouldnt be required to keep the seat completely backwards. for a normal guy 6 feet say 183cm.( 180cm as per indian standards!) people can sit comfortably in the rear. with no probs what so ever!!

and yes the engine thing. its good for city only ! highway drives dont expect to cruise at 120kmph all the time! i didnt take a test drive simply because i hate cars that dont have that torque rush!! i will get this for my dad but petrol is a problem. diesel wont be coming atleast for another 6months!. and yes THEY WILL NEVER PUT THE 1.5L CRDI VERNA ENGINE INTO IT!! :( . there goes all the fun.
6 more months ? Hyundai plans to rake up significant sales with just the 1.2 ? Or do they plan to plonk a 1.4L 100 bhp motor soon ?
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Old 18th January 2009, 09:49   #594
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Simple math actually - Fiat Linea petrol (88 BHP) power to weight ratio : 71 BHP / Ton

ANHC (116 BHP) power to weight ratio : 105 BHP / Ton

The 1.4 petrol is going to be hard-pressed to move that heavy sedan (and its bulk). Considering that the diesel is so well priced and efficient, it is safe to presume which one is going to be the best seller. And the smarter choice as well!
That's very true about Linea Petrol - 115Nm of torque for its weight seems low for city driveability, even.

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
We obviously differ here, as I strongly feel that a premium positioned car should offer premium performance. Lets leave it at that.
Sure, I can accept there are two ways to think of this. For me, a car is premium based on overall considerations and any such car has different engine options. The lowest spec engine variant of that car is still a premium car, or none of the variants are.

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
But of course, NOT much! They are regular daily commute roads which even scooters climb just as well. I can only imagine the stress on the i20 if someone has to climb these mundane stretches with 4 passengers.
That was due to my ignorance of Mumbai roads :-) It seems the buyers of i20 will have to compromise on driveability as well which makes it bad design choice for Hyundai - I mean their own tests would have made clear the limitations of the 1.2l engine on i20 - nobody expected it to be of any good for spirited driving, but if stop-go motoring and city driving is an issue, then thats a thumbs down.
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Old 18th January 2009, 13:04   #595
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Who's the idiot at Hyundai that decided not to include rear parking sensors and the rear centre headrest on the Asta (O)?

Nowadays, cars have a high beltline design making outward visibility difficult especially when moving in reverse gear, hence the need for radar parking sensors.

Last edited by Dose : 18th January 2009 at 13:06.
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Old 18th January 2009, 16:49   #596
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Sorry but really cant understand why so many people complaining about the engine which is underpowered for many.

took a TD yesterday for both i20 and ANHC
i liked everything about i20 drove in the ringroad overtook few vehicles without any fuss.i would say its a fantastic car with loads of features.2 things which i dint like one is its pricing which is way too much as far as i am concerned,secondly looks very ordinary thats what i feel or instead of ordinary i would say nothing new about it it looks more like getz with some minor changes.
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Old 19th January 2009, 10:35   #597
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Any one knows about the NCAP ratings of i20 ?
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Old 19th January 2009, 11:13   #598
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Any one knows about the NCAP ratings of i20 ?
The i20 crash test results have not yet been released by the Euro NCAP. EuroNCAP is introducing a revised ratings system for 2009. In this system, auto's will not achieve a 5-star rating if they do not offer ESP/ESC/stability control. The first quarter test results for 2009 will be released on Feb. 19th, 2009. Let us hope the i20 is among them. Otherwise, we will have to wait anywhere up to a year.

Euro NCAP - For safer cars | Euro NCAP in 2008: Making safety your top priority
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Old 21st January 2009, 11:08   #599
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Just had a test drive at the Hyundai showroom next to Big Bazaar in Parel. Frankly after looking at the pics and reading other folks reports here I had expected a bigger and well done interiors, but it was underwhelming in real life.

It looked smaller than the swift, I didn't find it particularly large as some have reported, its a normal size hatch, the exterior look is quite bland.

The interiors are also ordinary, nothing that jumps at you but little to criticize either, its certainly better than other cars in its class. I guess I had unrealistic expectations after reading about it so much here. The space inside was also quite ordinary, the back seats will get crammed with tall people ie 5.11/6 feet plus folks. On the whole I think Hyundai got the pricing wrong by about 30-50k. 6 on road for the 1.2 Asta is a more reasonable price for what it offers, 6.3 for the 1.4 and around 6.8 for the diesel makes sense for this car,

I couldn't take a long test drive but the little bit I drove the 1.2 was relatively peppy, I guess you will feel the lack of power in the expressway, difficult to tell in the city because the engine doesn't lag or complain or anything, however just 2 people in the car, maybe it will be different with 4 or 5 people.
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Old 21st January 2009, 17:23   #600
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some reports say 2000 i20s booked in 2 days, dont know whether this can be dismissed as the initial honeymoon period.
even if it is initial honeymoon period, it seems a fairly vigorous one ;P
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